Is America Collapsing Like Ancient Rome?

Deadfool the Blind.

www.cnbc.com

btw... Pls don't try to grok the thread article; I wouldn't want to be responsible for your 'brain' exploding from the effort.

"Sounds like California." -

#2 | Posted by deadman | Flag: A completely meaningless comment in light of this

Meanwhile, Serious level

"Pls don't try to grok the thread article
#3 | Posted by Corky"

The state became too big and chaotic: Yes for California, so much so the state wants to break into several states as the interests are so unaligned

The influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions: Yep. This is why everything is fake and gay and controlled by big tech or the entertainment industry in the state

And social and economic inequalities became so stark that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues: 100% Cali as the poverty rates and income inequality are on pace with African nations and the homeless problem is out of control

So, if you want to say this is 'America' when it described 100% Democrat controlled California so much better, you are not be intellectually honest. Also, I think you would have a hard time applying this description to places like Iowa, Wisconsin, Texas, or Florida.

Ck the link in #3 for the actual Worst States... you won't find your pet peeve on it.

CA is the 3rd largest economy in the world, and suffered as most large economies did.

The US economy, howsomever, just had a nice soft landing and is the best recovery in the world.

Despite everything Don Old Turd did to screw that up.

And, btw.... his Deficit killing tax cuts for Billionaires don't include you.

the actual Worst States..

The first list of ------ states I've seen in like forever that didn't include Mississippi.

Hmm...your 'worst states' sure seem to attract a lot of people like AZ, TX, TN, and IN while your 'liberal utopia states like NY, CA, and IL seem to lose population every census.

More than that, CA is the poster child of a state that was made great due to past policies (mainly GOP) that are slowly being pissed away by the Liberals that mistakenly believe they were the ones that built the state. It is typical of the rich kid syndrome - wealth is squandered within 3 generations. That tech sector was mainly due to Stanford getting government military grants to work advanced radar systems which spawned the hardware tech revolution. These did not spring up because they loved trans-kids. These sprung up due to actual businesses using the vast infrastructure that had been constructed in the state - including an education system that was best in the nation and now is close to last after 20+ years of liberal control.

Tell us you know zero - and I mean zero - about California, lil Jeffy.

You "people" are just pathetic hacks.

Go ---- yourself.

Ever heard of Prop 13?

Now really, go piss off

The state became too big and chaotic; the influence of money and private interests corrupted public institutions; and social and economic inequalities became so stark that citizens lost faith in the system altogether and gradually fell into the arms of tyrants and demagogues.

All of that sounds very familiar, doesn't it?

It does. But this is where your misunderstanding of the US Government founders fails you. Your education system failed in educating you properly. I suspect only an outsider like myself can see it.

Unfortunately for the country the US passed the 17th amendment. This destroyed the founders and many other historical figures understanding of governments.

After the 17th passed the path was inevitable.

Polybius argued that regimes were in an endless cycle, and the three basic forms of government are destined to degenerate into their lower forms " and lead back to anarchy.
But there's a way to fix it...

To break the cycle, you need to combine elements of each system. Polybius admired this in the Roman Republic:

Consuls (monarch-like leaders), Senate (aristocratic body), and Assemblies (democratic element).
threadreaderapp.com

It is a the sweet siren of "democracy at all costs" that lead to this downfall. History is your guide, Lumpers ignored it.

Unfortunately for the country the US passed the 17th amendment.

Non-lumpers have had 100+ years to repeal it. Failed.

"Ever heard of Prop 13?
Now really, go piss off
#10 | Posted by LegallyYourDead"

It is the only thing that has prevented the state from falling off a cliff through over taxation.

By any objective quality of life measurement, California was WAY BETTER in the year 2000 than it is in the year 2024 - this after multiple decades of Democrat only rule.

The crime is way worse, the schools are way worse (paying way more for worse results at every level from K-12 to the U of California campuses), there are way less emergency rooms available, homelessness is way worse, poverty level (adjusted for cost of living) is way worse, drug overdoses and mental disorders are way worse, income inequality is way worse, the infrastructure from airports to highways is way worse, and out of state migration is way worse.

This is what 2 decades plus of Democrats controlling the state gets you - it is the rich kid blowing their inheritance on hookers and coke.

You're a ------- idiot. Go ---- yourself, you stupid ----.

"#14 | Posted by LegallyYourDead"

I know - facts hurt your fi-fi's. Sorry, but everything I wrote is true - and I doubt you even live in California.

This is what 2 decades plus of Democrats controlling the state gets you - it is the rich kid blowing their inheritance on hookers and coke.

#13 | Posted by deadman

Cool. Now do the century control of places like Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas...you know, any one of the red state ---- holes that have been the bottom of our barrel and nothing but federal money sponges for our entire lives...

Sounds like California.

#2 | POSTED BY DEADMAN

You betcha!

If you need me I will be in the redwood's or on the beach.

Hiding from the Pretorian Guard.

This is what 2 decades plus of Democrats controlling the state gets you -

The 5th largest economy in the world.

Also I'll just leave this here for maga maroons.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Once the oligarchs took over, the end was beginning. Giving the keys to the treasury of sociopathic billionaires whose only concern was killing the social safety net (medicare, social security, food stamps, minimum wage and now ACA) so they could get even more egregious tax cuts while simultaneously raiding the treasury for fat contracts to incarcerate poor criminals, build overpriced weapons systems, fund the upper middle classes private schools, etc.

The greatest con-job was convincing 30% of the electorate that a sociopath billionaire with a history of sexual assault, shipping jobs to mexico and china, hiring illegal immigrants and forcing contractors into bankruptcy or suicide by routinely screwing them over on their contracts was looking out for the poor.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Better still, they ban the books that teach the history.

They are planning on committing the same crimes.

I never join in the California bashing crap. Not gonna start now.

Huge economy with huge challenges all the time.

Awesome features in California such as beaches, forests, mountains, etc... but since they're NOT a secret......it's a challenge to enjoy them. congestion, high cost of living, many other problems everyone has (homelessness, poverty, etc) to one degree or another....

but since they're NOT a secret......it's a challenge to enjoy them. congestion, high cost of living, many other problems everyone has (homelessness, poverty, etc) to one degree or another....

I know of a lot of "SECRET" places in California.

Of course they are not really secret. Just hard to get to. So fat lazy tourists don't bother. They just get an air bnb and enjoy the view. Which works for me! I can go the beach (which is only a mile away) and I bet there is no one there right now. Because they have to work and I don't! Ha! And here in Northern California we still have lots of unspoiled coastline lots of redwood forests and lots of empty beaches.

As for all the challenges? Yup! We got em! Which state does not have these same challenges?

More people means more challenges.

And so it goes ...

Oh I forgot to mention the mountains the deserts and the rivers and lakes and probably so much more.

I forget about all that is east of me because I don't leave the Lost Coast very much anymore.

It's just too nice here. But I do know if I don't like the weather where I am I can just drive an hour or so and find a whole different climate and some better weather.

- it is the rich kid blowing their inheritance on hookers and coke.

But enough about Trump and his sons.

But it's important to note that how California performs does have a huge impact everywhere.

Corky managed to deflect to his tired ole red state -------- argument (even though he lives in one) on post #3 but those red state challenges have always been present even as our country thrives.

Mississippi isn't going to rebound into some thing we all want.

And that's okay in the big picture.

California? It's immensely more important that state continues to be the economic engine it is.

we've hitched our wagon to that horse whether you understand and like it or not.

#25

Damn... and I had just given your #21 a NW flag.

You should have addressed this one to DeadTrumper, as he's the one picking on CA.

I lived there for several years, and other than the fact it was already taken, even in the 80's, it was a great place. Still is, really, unless one reads the news thinking it should only have the problems that much smaller states do.

-he's the one picking on CA.

while you pick on red states.

it's silly, but you argue with whom you can......

My larger point is that California is worth arguing about.

Mississippi isn't.

I drove though Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana last year on the way to Texas, and Louisiana was to me by far the ex-slave state that still has the slave state mentality; the workers reminded me of zombies... it was surreal.

Did ancient rome collapse due to propaganda from their enemies being accepted and parroted by one of their political parties?

Because that's what is destroying america.

#30

The real, 'enemy from within' in league with America's foreign enemies, yep.

BTW, it's a really good interview. The article.

"I think the biggest point " and I'm afraid the ship has already sailed " is that violence should never be a part of politics. Once it's there, it is very hard to make it go away without even more violence that ultimately neutralizes the people willing to do it. Violence has no part in a representative political system."

When we allowed those people in to the Capitol building, and I said it on THAT day......we'll regret that.

We should have shot those guys when they tried to breach.

If their names were Muslim/Arab then we would have....but since their names were Chad, Brad, Jerry, and Fred.....we couldn't do it.

But we allowed that violence.

and we're not done paying the price for that.

" ancient rome collapse due to propaganda from their enemies being accepted and parroted by one of their political parties?"

Sorta. However, the fall of Rome was gradual and complex, and there was no single reason.

I feel it did have to do with propaganda to a great degree. And is a valuable lesson to leaders to NOT allow one person (or entity) to be the nexus that controls the flow of information to you.

Especially now with the advent of AI.

short answer: yes, through excessive debt, ignorance, and Trump.

Did ancient rome collapse due to propaganda from their enemies being accepted and parroted by one of their political parties?

Because that's what is destroying america.

#30 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

No it isn't, you need to take the whole of the situation.

Crime
Debt
Businesses shutting
Lack of taking responsibility.
Corruption

This isn't due to either sides rhetoric.

See you want it to be one side bad, one side good

If you read any history it's really because the US in its desire to be wholly democratic, has destroyed the golden goose.

Roman empire lasted a thousand years, the US? Maybe 50 years of glory.

Those days are over.

#35 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-11-04 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag: mumpsimus

It's been a few years now but I drove through Mississippi.

Straight out of a Grisham novel.

surreal indeed.

Crime
Debt
Businesses shutting
Lack of taking responsibility.
Corruption

Great description for the results of republican policies.

Two important points

Tocqueville Effect, as people gain more rights and equality, their expectations increase, making them feel more entitled and less content

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. " Ben Franklin

This is what is happening, nothing to do with rhetoric, that's just a symptom.

Great description for the results of republican policies.
#38 | Posted by ClownShack

What Republican policy in California is causing that?

Be specific.

This isn't due to either sides rhetoric.

See you want it to be one side bad, one side good

#35 | Posted by oneironaut

See when one side is the cult of a russian puppet who attempted a coup, and the other side isn't, then one side is clearly and obviously far far better than the other.

"This isn't due to either sides rhetoric.

See you want it to be one side bad, one side good"

People have to boil it down to their own reading level.

See you want it to be one side bad, one side good

So do you, 1LumpOfTrump, so do you.

You're very fond of posting how awful Democrats and liberals are while showering republicans and MAGAts with praise.

#43

That appears to be the only way a marginal poster can get the attention they need.

"That appears to be the only way a marginal poster can get the attention they need." -

#44 | Posted by Corky

That, and constantly talking about "blocking" me.

He has just virtually stuck his head in the sand, and think it is clever.

"even in the 80's, it was a great place. Still is, really, unless one reads the news thinking it should only have the problems that much smaller states do.
#26 | Posted by Corky"

Is CA better today in quality of life than it was in the year 2000? If so, by what metric?

#46 | Posted by deadman | Serious level

Is CA better today in quality of life than it was in the year 2000? If so, by what metric?

#46 | POSTED BY DEADMAN

By my personal metric?

By the happiness quotient.

I am happier today than I was in 2000.

And there is a good chance I will be even happier tomorrow.

Like we felt after Obama won. That was a wonderful feeling.

I wouldn't mind feeling that again.

-Is CA better today in quality of life than it was in the year 2000? If so, by what metric?

Boazboy proved he didn't understand the question.

Maybe someone can come along and actually answer you.

"Boazboy proved he didn't understand the question.
#49 | Posted by eberly"

It is not a lack of understanding, it is that they have no facts to stand on so they spew nonsense.

It is an undeniable fact that quality of life has decreased in CA from year 2000 to year 2024 after 2 decades+ of absolute Democrat control of EVERY level of government in the state.

If you want another comparison - is San Francisco (the front runner of CA statewide policies) better in 2024 than it was in 2000 by any actual metric?

#50 | Posted by deadman | Flag: Hans' Love Letter to deadman

It is an undeniable fact that quality of life has decreased in CA from year 2000 to year 2024 after 2 decades+ of absolute Democrat control of EVERY level of government in the state.
#50 | Posted by deadman

You just described a time period where CA's economic output supported the entire rest of the moocher nation.

@#50 ... It is an undeniable fact that quality of life has decreased in CA from year 2000 to year 2024 ...

So, then, your current alias has evidence?

And another dunce steps up to prove they can't read.

Short bus veterans like this are used to trying to conceal their ignorance

Not reveal it

"Is CA better today in quality of life than it was in the year 2000? If so, by what metric?"

Air quality.

LA has, via their gas regulations, minimized the schittt-brown ring that used to be around the city. That has to have a statewide effect.

The ring was from exhaust, but the topography is the reason for the ring: it keeps whatever pollution is being produced, within the ring.

IIRC, one native tribe's word for that area mentioned a brown ring. My guess is, back then, it was due to the smoke from native's fires for food and warmth.

"You just described a time period where CA's economic output supported the entire rest of the moocher nation.
#52 | Posted by SpeakSoftly"

Nice deflection - but again, did the quality of life increase with 2+ decades of total Democrat control of the state?

First there was this ...

Do you honestly think something went wrong on the server side to repost 1000+ times by Hans or was he sitting in his basement continuously hitting the publish comment button with ever growing incel rage until it finally posted 1000+ times? My bet is that someone's mom didn't bring the pizza rolls in time and Hans was rage hitting submit while likely screaming the n-word at the top of his lungs. Thankfully, he likely resides in a windowless basement so no one was exposed to his racial abuse.

#18 | Posted by deadman at 2024-10-17 08:23 PM

...and then there was this...

#18 | Posted by: deadman | Flag: Serious level

Interestingly enough, this is post #18.

"Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

#22 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-17 08:58 PM

This is just way too easy.

"LA has, via their gas regulations, minimized the schittt-brown ring that used to be around the city. That has to have a statewide effect.
#55 | Posted by Danforth"

The problems with air quality were largely already solved by 2000. You are reaching back to the late 1980's if you are talking huge LA smog issues.

But at least you gave it a shot.

Is there anyone who can give a good reason why the supporters/apologists of the Kumquat Pol Pol deserve any respect when they have clearly forfeited that right?

I'm open to persuasion.

I have to ask the board, do any of you actually find Hans to be a contributing poster? I am considering blocking him at this point. Like I said, he seemed creepily obsessed with me and I don't want to feed into his mental illness. Actually, yes, I will block him.

"did the quality of life increase"

FFS, go ahead and give us your cherry-picked list, don't make us guess. Exactly what are you counting, and what aren't you counting?

I'm sure low unemployment isn't one of your metrics, since we've been at greater-than-full employment for a while.

Nor is increased net worth for investors. Between the S&P and Dow, 71 highs this year. Inflation down below 3%. Hands down the best reaction and response to Covid in the last four years, leading to the fastest and furthest reduction of inflation in the G-20.

So...Where's the beef? Be specific.

@#60 ... I am considering blocking him at this point. ...

That's your current alias' decision to make.

Does your current alias seem to want to blank out opinions it has an issue with?

-do any of you actually find Hans to be a contributing poster?

Not when he's chasing people from thread to thread to thread to thread with his obsession

And I speak for this entire blog with that

I consider that an honor.

Meanwhile,

First there was this ...

Do you honestly think something went wrong on the server side to repost 1000+ times by Hans or was he sitting in his basement continuously hitting the publish comment button with ever growing incel rage until it finally posted 1000+ times? My bet is that someone's mom didn't bring the pizza rolls in time and Hans was rage hitting submit while likely screaming the n-word at the top of his lungs. Thankfully, he likely resides in a windowless basement so no one was exposed to his racial abuse.

#18 | Posted by deadman at 2024-10-17 08:23 PM

...and then there was this...

#18 | Posted by: deadman | Flag: Serious level

Interestingly enough, this is post #18.

"Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

#22 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-17 08:58 PM

This is just way too easy.

And humiliating you is a pleasure.

And, please... This was a very interesting comment from earlier in the week:

"I get the feeling he doesn't understand how blocking works."

#166 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-10-29 11:49 PM

On the Retort it is called plonking, not blocking.

On other social media sites, when you attempt to reply to someone who has you blocked, the system does not allow you to post said reply. Furthermore, you can no longer see the posts of the person who blocked you. Your only option then is to block that person in return, and neither of you will ever see another one of your posts.

Here, 'tis a little bit different.

When you plonk someone (add to your Killfile), sure, you no longer see their posts.

But here comes the fun part: Yeah, you can no longer see the plonked person's posts, but they can still see yours.

Which means that you can't see the plonked person's reply!

And everyone else can also see plonked person's reply.

You're welcome, oneironaut

"FFS, go ahead and give us your cherry-picked list, don't make us guess. Exactly what are you counting, and what aren't you counting?
#61 | Posted by Danforth"

I was pretty clear above:
1. crime is way worse
2. the schools are way worse (paying way more for worse results at every level from K-12 to the U of California campuses)
3. less emergency rooms available,
4. homelessness is way worse,
5. poverty level (adjusted for cost of living) is way worse,
6. drug overdoses and mental disorders are way worse,
7. income inequality is way worse,
8. the infrastructure from airports to highways is way worse
9. out of state migration is way worse

But, the already clean air did get cleaner, so you have that.

"And I speak for this entire blog with that"

#63 | Posted by eberly

Sure.

And the lack of patience is palpable . . .

"Does your current alias seem to want to blank out opinions it has an issue with?
#62 | Posted by LampLighter"

I have been willing to engage with anyone stating any actual opinion or argument. I am not willing to engage with askholes or people like Hans posting for the sake of posting alone - that is obsessive and creepy.

Is there anyone who can give a good reason why the supporters/apologists of the Kumquat Pol Pol deserve any respect when they have clearly forfeited that right?

I'm open to persuasion.

Forfeited what right?

"...that is obsessive and creepy." -

#67 | Posted by deadman (new) | Serious level

Yeah.

Faced with your own reflection is somewhat disgusting.

Understand.

@#61 ... I'm sure low unemployment isn't one of your metrics, since we've been at greater-than-full employment for a while. ...

Well, yeah.

The labor market has been quite strong.

To the point that companies seem to be afraid of laying off workers. The hiring has been reduced, but the layoffs have not yet seemed to occur in any major manner (outside some tech companies).

"The problems with air quality were largely already solved by 2000."

Not solved; paused. You're pretending status quo solves an ever-growing problem. It's the continued introduction of cutting-edge technology which has prevented the problem from naturally worsening. And yes, the air quality is better in 2024 than it was in 2000. Or at least is was as of last January.

#69 | Posted by eberly

What part of ...

Is there anyone who can give a good reason why the supporters/apologists of the Kumquat Pol Pol deserve any respect when they have clearly forfeited that right?

... do you not understand?

"Faced with your own reflection"

You mean you?

Because you're in his face

@#71 ...The labor market has been quite strong. ...

Actually, the U.S. labor market remains very strong
www.epi.org

... It is indisputable that the U.S. labor market is strong.

The share of the population ages 25"54 with a job is at a 23-year high, median household incomes rose 4.0% last year, and real wage growth over the last four years has been broad-based and strong. The economy has not only regained the nearly 22 million jobs lost in the pandemic recession, but also added another 6.5 million.

Are some folks still having a hard time? Absolutely.

Even when the unemployment rate is low, there are still sidelined workers, and it remains difficult for many families to make ends meet on wages that are still too low. Unfortunately, that's a long-term phenomenon stemming from a too-stingy U.S. welfare state, rising inequality, and the legacy of anemic wage growth during past economic recoveries. But when comparing the labor market with four years ago (during the pandemic recession) or even before the pandemic began, the answer is clear: More workers have jobs and wages are beating inflation by solid margins.

More people have jobs ...