Monday, December 23, 2024

Trump Team's Plans to try to End Birthright Citizenship

President-elect Donald Trump's team is assessing multiple options to fulfill his long-promised pledge to end birthright citizenship, according to two sources familiar with the discussions, teeing up a legal fight with the expectation that the Supreme Court would ultimately have to rule on the matter.

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President-elect Donald Trump's team is assessing multiple options to fulfill his long-promised pledge to end birthright citizenship, sources said, teeing up a legal fight with the expectation that the Supreme Court would ultimately have to rule on the matter.

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-- CNN (@cnn.com) December 22, 2024 at 9:37 AM

Comments

... Trump has railed against birthright citizenship, which is protected by the 14th Amendment, for years and suggested he'd use executive action to ban it. ...

Can the Executive branch override the Constitution via Executive actions?

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-22 08:35 PM

@#1

Oh, wait ...

Trump Claims Constitution Invalid Because It Was Signed by Dead People (2021)
www.newyorker.com

... Advancing a new conspiracy theory during a rally on Monday, Donald J. Trump claimed that the United States Constitution is invalid because it was signed by dead people.

"All we're hearing is, the Constitution this and the Constitution that," Trump said. "I'm telling you, as sure as you're sitting there, that every person who signed that piece of paper is dead."

Trump said that he had his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani investigate the signatories to the Constitution, "and he found a scandal bigger than Hunter Biden's laptop." ...


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-22 08:38 PM

So they're going to wipe their a&^ with the Constitution...

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2024-12-23 09:06 AM

Isn't that whore Melanoma an illegal immigrant?

#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-12-23 10:00 AM

"Can the Executive branch override the Constitution via Executive actions?"

If the Supreme Court is corrupt enough, yes! and our present Supreme Court is corrupt enough.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2024-12-23 01:15 PM

Re 5

I would have said no. The President cannot repeal any part of the constitution thru executive orders.

But that was before I saw this Supreme Court in action. But I think if they try it there will be severe unexpected consequences and repercussions.

What Trumpy would do is essentially create an entire class of stateless people, an entire class of stateless children. Which country do you deport them to?

It is just going to create even more economic instability and social instability.

Having said that I sure hope they try. It should tie them up in the courts for years. And they will accomplish absolutely nothing. Which is the best we can hope for from Trumpy!

Absolutely Nothing.

#6 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-23 02:10 PM

"It is just going to create even more economic instability and social instability."

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

The whole goal is to create instability, to the point elections MUST be called off.

#7 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-23 02:13 PM

We're the only country that has it," Trump lied

Countries with Birthright citizenship: worldpopulationreview.com

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-23 02:39 PM

This is just a prelude to bigger and more serious things Trump wants to change in the Constitution. If his logic works once, the precedent before the U.S. Supreme Court has been set in stone.

Trump always has a devious motive behind everything he does including the years he spent stacking and using the U.S. Supreme Court to pave the way. They are now his golden brick road to a dictatorship.

Corrupt to the gills.

#9 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-12-24 04:58 AM

Our country is in for a world of hurt for the foreseeable future. I never dreamed we would be in such deep trouble as we will be in. I don't understand it. I really don't.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-24 05:13 AM

"I don't understand it. I really don't.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr

I understand it perfectly. Hilary haters like you brought this on. You let your hatred overwhelm what was best for the country.

We tried to tell you at the time, but you wouldn't listen.

So, if you don't understand, look inward.

#11 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-12-24 05:30 AM

By his definition. Wouldn't that mean that Barron, the child of an immigrant mother would also be deported.
Where are Barron and Melonia going? Deport them too.
Hey man. You want to tear apart families with 0 regards for anyone elses child.
Be sure to inflict that trash on your own child too.
We have to suffer. You suffer with us.

#12 | Posted by gypsydiane8177 at 2024-12-24 06:39 AM

As things stand, it would break our Constitutional Republic to simply change the laws and ignore the direct Constitutional directives allowing all who are born in America to be Citizens. And the second his Supreme Corrupt Court gins up some sort of pretend law based on originalism is the day the Supreme Corrupt Court becomes just another gang. Either we are a Constitutional Republic or we are not.

#13 | Posted by Hughmass at 2024-12-24 06:55 AM

"So they're going to wipe their a&^ with the Constitution."

It can't happen. the language in the 14th amendment is very clear. There is no ambiguity.

Their only real way forward would be to amend the constitution. It could be done, but it would be a huge lift. I don't know how much support it would get.

#14 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-12-24 08:39 AM

Isn't that whore Melanoma an illegal immigrant?
#4 | Posted by LegallyYourDead

That's a very ignorant thing to say. Whores provide sexual services for free, while prostitutes charge for their services.

Melania Trump renegotiated her prenuptial agreement with Donald Trump because his 2024 presidential campaign needed her to be more visible. It was revealed earlier this week that the former first lady renegotiated her marriage contract with Trump to ensure she will be left with plenty of money in the case he drains his bank account paying legal fees for his multiple indictments.

The recent renegotiation was at least the second time since 2016 that Melania amended her prenup. She also revised it after Trump became president when she did not immediately move to the White House to live with him.
www.newsweek.com

Melania is no whore. Educate yourself!

#15 | Posted by censored at 2024-12-24 09:06 AM

CENSORED

We can stop beating around the bush. It wasn't love either.

#16 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-12-24 11:38 AM

It can't happen. the language in the 14th amendment is very clear. There is no ambiguity.

Their only real way forward would be to amend the constitution. It could be done, but it would be a huge lift. I don't know how much support it would get.

#14 | Posted by madbomber

Nonsense.

the 3rd article of the 14th is pretty clear too, didn't stop the SC from ignoring it.

He will argue an invading army is not entitled to birthright citizenship.

That is the reason he has spent a decade painting undocumented workers as an invasion and they are all rapists and murderers.

Many Americans, too stupid to think for themselves, bought into it.

But then again magat scum really are stupid

#17 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-12-24 12:28 PM

CENSORED We can stop beating around the bush. It wasn't love either.
#16 | Posted by Twinpac

Does love for money not count?
Chapelle-Money

#18 | Posted by censored at 2024-12-24 12:37 PM

"We're the only country that has it," Trump lied

I caught that clever little lie, too. He just slipped it right in there. Like it was E Jean Carrol in a clothing store.

And I didn't see anyone call him on it.

So now all the maga maroons will believe it to be the truth for years.

#19 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-24 12:55 PM

I seriously think it can only be done by Amending the Constitution. Good luck with that.

#20 | Posted by Augustine at 2024-12-24 11:51 PM

it can only be done by Amending the Constitution

Or reinterpreting it. Lewzer controls all three branches of government so it could happen.

#21 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-12-25 12:38 AM

The only thing that may hold back the Red Rag is the fact the HoR is nearly evenly split.

#22 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-25 01:42 AM

If there's a way, Trump will find it.

Here are some of the lines he's already using to slowly poison minds.

'Cause immigrants illegally vote. 'Cause immigrants take jobs from U.S. Citizens. 'Cause immigrants are poor and suck up benefits. 'Cause immigrants are bringing drugs into this country. 'Cause immigrants are bringing diseases into the country. 'Cause immigrants are thieves, murders and rapists.

But under it all, Trump is a White (only) Nationalist and immigrants are brown or mixed.

Sort of like Hitler's Aryan Nation solution. Trump is turning immigrants into false enemies to support his mass deportation plan, including citizenship birth.

#23 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-12-25 03:23 AM

It can't happen. the language in the 14th amendment is very clear. There is no ambiguity.

Same thing was said about insurrectionists holding office.

And yet, we now have an insurrection starting POS in office again because SCOTUS has made it clear they're a political tool, not a court.

And in our system that requires good faith participation, the constitution says what SCOTUS says it says.

#24 | Posted by jpw at 2024-12-25 12:43 PM

Carter giving away the canal was just one of the many F**kU** made by a dem administration.

#25 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-12-25 01:38 PM

A little education behind that in the 14th amendment:

www.history.com

Never meant for [say], a Chinese vacationer coming over here very pregnant, with a plan of having the baby and automatically the child is American, [same as those from many countries]. Been abused for many decades now.

#26 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-12-25 01:44 PM

Have at it! Good luck wasting your time spinning those wheels.

It's already been adjudicated several times by the Supreme Court.

"The Fourteenth] Amendment, in clear words and in manifest intent, includes the children born, within the territory of the United States, of all other persons, of whatever race or color, domiciled within the United States," ," wrote associate justice Horace Gray in the majority opinion.

"We have to end it. It's ridiculous," Trump said, adding, "Do you know we're the only country in the world that has it? Do you know that? There's not one other country."

From your own article:

www.history.com

Most countries in the Western Hemisphere have some form of jus soli citizenship, while Europe favors jus sanguinis citizenship. Today, the United States is one of at least 30 countries that affirm birthright citizenship, including most countries in the Western Hemisphere. "Traditionally" notes the Washington Post, "lenient naturalization laws made it more appealing for Europeans to travel to " and settle in " the New World."

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-25 02:14 PM

The Panama Canal Treaties were Carter's biggest foreign policy win | Bruce Ledewitz
They were not only Carter's greatest achievement, they were a great achievement of a very different America

penncapital-star.com

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2024-12-25 02:16 PM

Re 28

Oops. That wasn't funny but it was newsworthy! But i accidentally hit both.

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-25 02:33 PM

#25 of course, msgt chirps the latest talking points.

Yet another example of how "MAGA" is all about being the world's belligerent a^%hole now.

Involvement for the sake of peace and order? Nope. Picking fights to be a d^%*? 100% MAGA approved.

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2024-12-25 04:12 PM

Posted by MSgt

This clown is ignorance personified.

#31 | Posted by Angrydad at 2024-12-25 04:44 PM

@#32 ... All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." ...

How does that deal with ...

Mother Russia: South Florida sees a boom in birth tourism' (2019)
apnews.com

... Every year, hundreds of pregnant Russian women travel to the United States to give birth so that their child can acquire all the privileges of American citizenship.

They pay anywhere from $20,000 to sometimes more than $50,000 to brokers who arrange their travel documents, accommodations and hospital stays, often in Florida. ...


#34 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-25 11:53 PM

@#26 ... Never meant for [say], a Chinese vacationer coming over here very pregnant, with a plan of having the baby and automatically the child is American, [same as those from many countries]. Been abused for many decades now. ...

Or Russians.

See #34.

#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-25 11:55 PM

@#33 ... Of the countries with no restriction birthright citizenship, only the US and Canada are actually civilized and a place where an illegal would knowingly pop out a kid with the intention of doing so to avoid deportation. ...

Got a link?

thx.

#36 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-25 11:56 PM

@#37 ... You may not know this, but when women come from Asia ...

I specifically mentioned Russian women in Florida.

Curious that your alias diverted away from that.

OK, all that aside ...

What does the Constitution say about people being born in the US?

#38 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 12:26 AM

As you all already know, foreign ambassadors who have kids in the US do not become US citizens due to being born in the US because they do not meet the condition of "subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

Clue us in on why they don't qualify for birthright citizenship, please.

By the mere definition of illegal, they are not subject to US laws.

So, "they" can't be prosecuted for the crimes the Buffoon says "they" commit because "they" are not subject to the laws of the US. Good luck with that.

#40 | Posted by et_al at 2024-12-26 12:39 AM

@#39 ...Already linked and discussed in #32 ...

Discussed, yes. With the caveat that, This should be challenged in the Supreme Court

So it appears that your alias may want to overturn current law and interpretation of the Constitution?

That aside ...

Linked? I do not see a link in @32.


Fun tune ...

Iron Butterfly - In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida (1968)
www.youtube.com



#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 12:46 AM

The same exact thing would apply to people here illegally. By the mere definition of illegal, they are not subject to US laws.

Then you can't argue they're hear illegally...

#44 | Posted by jpw at 2024-12-26 01:08 AM

@#43 ... I want the original interpretation of the law to be enforced ...

So, what specifically is that original interpretation of the law, and the basis for it?

#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 01:13 AM

@#44 ... Then you can't argue they're hear illegally. ...

Yup.

If someone is not subject to US laws (as stated in #32), then those laws cannot be used to declare a person is here illegally.

So the question becomes, are they or are they not subject to US laws?

#46 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 01:17 AM

@#47 It was not intended for illegals to storm the borders and pop out babies. ...

I notice you seem to ignore my prior comment about Russians and Florida, #34.

Curious.

#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 01:33 AM

@#48 ... If a Mexican citizen comes to the US and pops out an anchor baby and then returns to Mexico, are they required to file and pay US taxes on their global income like ALL OTHER US citizens are required to do? ...

If you have to ask, you apparently do not know the answer.

That aside ...

So, maybe, as your question asks, the tax laws may need to be challenged, and not the Constitution?

And, while we are changing the tax laws, maybe we should also look at some other areas relating to billionaires paying their fair share ...


Again, what's yer point?


#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 01:39 AM

Lighthouse - Sunny Days (1972)
www.youtube.com

Lyrics excerpt...

genius.com

...
Sittin' stoned alone in my backyard
Askin' myself "Why should I work so hard?"

Sittin' dreamin' 'bout the days to come
Half-undressed, just soakin' up the sun
...


#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 02:00 AM

I just have already addressed your prior comment twice. The Russians should not be allowed to do that. First, the pregnant woman should not be allowed to travel that close to giving birth so the kid is not born here. Second, the kid should not get birthright citizenship as stated above as the Russia is not subject to US jurisdiction.

Posted by magaunited at 2024-12-26 02:33 AM | Reply

Utter rubbish. Doesn't matter the nationality of the person. When they are on US soil. They are subject to the jurisdiction where they are physically present at the time. If you are in an airplane and you give birth over the United States your baby is an US Citizen automatically. The only exceptions are Diplomats and their immediate family members and heads if state and their immediate family members. They give up that right voluntarily due to the nature of their employment. Please do try again.

#54 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-26 02:46 AM

@#53 ... They do not have to file or pay US taxes because they are still a Mexican citizen ...

But they are also a US citizen, a concern your alias has raised, hence, have a dual citizenship.

Dual Citizenship in Mexico: Understanding the Tax Implications
www.greenbacktaxservices.com

... Dual citizenship is becoming more popular as people seek the perks of living in two countries. With its great lifestyle, climate, and cost of living, Mexico has seen a rise in dual citizenship applications. However, while there are many benefits, having dual citizenship also means dealing with complex tax obligations, especially for US citizens who must follow both US and Mexican tax laws. ...

#55 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 02:52 AM

Study says undocumented immigrants paid almost $100 billion in taxes
kentuckylantern.com

... A new study shows that undocumented immigrants paid nearly $100 billion in federal, state and local tax revenue in 2022 while many are shut out of the programs their taxes fund. The findings run counter to anti-immigrant rhetoric that undocumented immigrants are "destroying" social programs. ...

#56 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-26 02:54 AM

" LOL, assuming they pay property taxes and sales tax"

They certainly can't buy items without paying sales tax. And if they're renters, they pay property taxes indirectly, via rent payments, just like all renters.

Why pretend they can avoid what they can't?!?

#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:21 AM

" Lifetime Net Tax: -$68,000 per illegal."

Link to your proof, please; my guess is the equation you're using leaves out some salient numbers.

We've already seen you pretend folks here illegally aren't charged sales tax.

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:25 AM

------ legend Incel Scatberg is back.

#62 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-12-26 04:26 AM

" It is not my analysis."

Good.

Because your link excludes HALF the equation. All about costs, while ignoring what they pay.

Did you bother to notice, or are omissions like that your plan?

#64 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:43 AM

" what I stated was 'net' cost,"

And the authors have some wild ideas about costs and payments.

For example, like you, the authors pretend sales tax doesn't exist, and rent NEVER includes property tax.

Be sure to stretch if you're going to carry water that far.

#66 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:54 AM

"We estimate ... ".

Of course they do. Without a single keystroke regarding methodology.

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:56 AM

This "report" looks retro-fitted.

#68 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 04:57 AM

" We estimate that illegal immigrants in 2019 paid roughly $5.9 billion in federal income tax, $16.2 billion in Social Security tax and $3.8 billion in Medicaid taxes. However, as the net fiscal drain of $68,000 per person cited above indicates"

So they're comparing ONE YEAR with one lifetime. And they're misusing the word "fiscal".

They're also pretending sales and property taxes don't exist.

And 12.6 million paying $5.9 billion in SS tax?!? That's an average of ~$3,400 of income per person. Either you're pissing yourself over folks who average $68 per week ...

... or the authors' math is bogus, and they're purposely leaving out facts which change the bottom line.

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 05:17 AM

" The illegals don't pay property taxes. The home owners do."

Phenomenally stupid.

You're pretending landlords setting rents don't take property taxes into account. Nothing could be further from reality.

#71 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 05:20 AM

" one would argue with the 20M illegals deported, the demand for apartments would crater resulting in much lower rental rates for the US citizens."

One could also argue the inflation spikes will more than eat up any pretend advantage.

Deporting 25% of the produce chain is insane. Adding tariffs on top is a recipe for a Depression.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 05:25 AM

Correction: $15 billion in SS tax.

So $190/week. That's the worker you think is ruining your life.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 05:28 AM

" Will the property tax be paid if no illegal was renting?"

Are you actually going to pretend landlords don't include property taxes in their calculation for how much rent to charge???

You're too dumb to debate.

G'night, all.

#76 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 05:59 AM

" Not all illegals steal a SS number - most just work for cash and pay nothing."

Then why aren't you arresting the owners?

Deport an illegal and you just put up a "job opening" sign.

I won't believe you're serious until you go after the guy paying cash under the table. THATs the one who's ripping you off.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 06:04 AM

" Why do you use this as some kind of gotcha?"

Because it's mainly Republican Sheriffs in Republican counties looking the other way because the Republicans on the Chambers of Commerce are the largest contributors to the Sheriff's re-election campaign.

And also because to date, you've only blamed the workers, and not the folks breaking the law by hiring them.

#80 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 12:30 PM

" Let's test this will some actual numbers."

More stupidity.

All your smoke and mirrors won't change the obvious fact: renters pay property taxes indirectly.

It's intellectually dishonest to OMIT that portion of the equation.

#81 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-12-26 12:47 PM

Europe still manages to pick their crops without a bunch of Mexican illegals - so can the US.

#79 | POSTED BY MAGAUNITED

Oh lookie! Another Magabot. So many lies and so little time! So I will just pick the low hanging fruit.

...

Europe still manages to pick their crops without a bunch of Mexican illegals - so can the US.

#79 | POSTED BY MAGAUNITED

This statement proves you don't have a clue what you are talking about. No, they don't need a "bunch of Mexicans". But they do need a lot of immigrants.

With that kind ignorance good luck with the Mass Deportations. It will be like watching the Keystone Cops chasing Cheech and Chong.

Immigrants are crucial to European agriculture as they provide a significant portion of the labor needed to harvest crops, particularly fruits and vegetables, in many countries like Spain, Italy, and Germany, due to a declining domestic agricultural workforce and the seasonal nature of the work; without them, much of the produce would go unpicked.

www.europarl.europa.eu(2021)689347_EN.pdf

#82 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-26 12:54 PM

Will the property tax be paid if no illegal was renting? - a simple yes/no will do for this question.
#75 | POSTED BY MAGAUNITED

Will the property be paid for if no one is renting it?

You are quite simple.

It's what makes you such a Deplorable Trumping MAGAt.

Dumb as dirt and full of shht.

#83 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-26 01:50 PM

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