Propaganda is pretty easy to spot and smack down with facts. Today's left are such censorious -------.

#11. Nothing but straw.

Some things are wrong and they will always be wrong. Censorship falls into that category.

Yav,

Consider creating threads on all of those things. I'd love to do a deep dive into all of that.

One thing that might surprise you is a strongly oppose the abortion ban after 6 weeks. I think it needs to be legal for the first trimester.

But that view is probably me falling prey to propaganda, right?

" Learn the history of fascism and how it gains root. It's through censorship and control of the media and message; i.e. propaganda. It's happening all around you. It's promised by Trump and the GOP. Figure it out, please.

#21 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-02-18 01:20 PM | FLAG: "

I'm well aware of that which is why I'm so staunchly opposed to censorship.

#30. I sure as heck do.

Do you? You sure seem to support it when it suits you.

Are you good with this, Yav?

" On March 2, 2021, senior Biden White House official Andy Slavitt emailed Amazon and asked who he could talk to about "the high levels of propaganda and misinformation and disinformation of Amazon." He had searched "vaccines" under the books section and said he had found the top results "concerning."

Amazon did not act in compliance with Biden's implied commands at first because book censorship would "further compound the Harry/Sally narrative," referencing its then-recent removal of Ryan T. Anderson's book criticizing transgenderism called When Harry Became Sally from its stores, and said not to "do anything that is visible and will draw more attention."

Ironically, Amazon later claimed, "As a retailer, we provide our customers with access to a variety of viewpoints, including books that some customers may find objectionable," and therefore could not submit to Biden on the COVID-19 issue.

At least that was their stance until Amazon members were called to a pre-brief discussion with the White House on March 9, 2021, during which they suspected that the Biden administration was "asking us to remove books." That same day, they caved and decided to "enable Do Not Promote for anti-vax books whose primary purpose is to persuade readers vaccines are unsafe or ineffective."

On March 12, 2021, Amazon members discussed a meeting to take place the following week to "reduce the visibility" of "books related to vaccine misinformation" because the prior White House meeting made them feel "pressure from the White House on this issue"

" What censorship have I proposed?

#34 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-02-18 02:07 PM | FLAG: "

After you tell me what censorship I've proposed.

Were you supportive, opposed or insouciant to this:

" On the morning of April 27, the Department of Homeland Security announced the creation of the first Disinformation Governance Board with the stated goal to "coordinate countering misinformation related to homeland security." The Biden administration tapped Nina Jankowicz, a well-known figure in the field of fighting ... "

#37. So, you're saying that didn't happen?

Is the Twitter files a complete fabrication too?

#39. If you have counter-factual information for that I'll gladly look at it, Yav.

Setting that aside you've moved the goalposts from censorship to propaganda.

What CENSORSHIP have I proposed or supported, Yav.

BTW - this doesn't have to be combative. In fact the conversation will move more quickly if it's not.

Are you now saying the Biden administration DIDN'T create a disinformation board, even though it only lasted for a short time?

That's good, Yav. Tuck your tail and run away. It's what you are good at.

You haven't addressed anything on this thread in a substantive way.

#50. Should movie theaters have age restrictions on R rated movies or video game stores have age restrictions on M rated games?

Are your shoulders hurting from moving the goalposts that far?

" No point in taking to a conspiracy nutcase.

#52 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-02-18 02:23 PM | FLAG: "

Run away!!!

I was actually trying to have a civil discussion with you. I guess you aren't capable of that right now.

And I told you I would gladly look at any counter- factual information you have. But you didn't provide any.

Further YOU were the one who moved the goalposts from censorship to propaganda.

Are you seriously going to sit there and claim the Biden administration DIDN'T create a disinformation board?

"That's Quan conspiracy nonsense!" Isn't a persuasive counter argument.

If you want to change my views, put in some effort. Personal insults and faux intellectual superiority aren't persuasive.

Nor is, "I'm right and you are wrong."

"Thi s is and has been about propaganda - and how it's used for political means, and how fascist use it combined with lies and censorship. It is all relevant and related. At least to me it's all part of the same discussion.

#62 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-02-18 02:41 PM | FLAG: "

Okay. That makes sense.

See?

How hard was that?

" Just like you implying the purpose, charter, and intent of countering disinformation was somehow nefarious?"

The government overtly attempting to control messaging is absolutely nefarious. The government covertly working to censor opposition viewpoints is nefarious.

Would you really be okay with someone like DeSantis being in control of a "disinformation board"?

This is what I've been trying to get lefties at this site to understand - we are still enough of a democracy that power can shift to the other side. All of these Orwellian powers that y'all seem to favor can shift to the other side with a couple of electoral wins.

" They are assuming once allowed, no political opposition will exist. It will be deemed "disinformation".

In fact it will be criminalized.

#68 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT AT 2024-02-18 02:53 PM | FLAG: "

I know. The problem is that assumption is wrong, at least for the time being and that is what I'm trying to get them to understand. The pendulum does swing in both directions.

#74. If it was so anodyne why did it get cancelled after 3 weeks?

#83. I am not familiar with everything you posted but i am familiar with some of it and, for example the black history AP issue, you are being very disingenuous in how you are phrasing what happened.

#85. I have ZERO problem with our government transparently putting out information. Working openly or behind the scenes to squash co7nter information is what I have a HUGE problem with. So does the 1st Amendment.

#90. I didn't call you a liar. I genuinely apologize if that's how I came across.

FWIW I disagree with some of what DeSantis has been doing. I think he's gone overboard with the culture war stuff, for example.

" Sounds like a veiled threat."

It's not a threat. It's an acknowledgment of reality.

If/when the pendulum does swing to a point where enough power has been accumulated to retaliate in similar fashion I will oppose it then too.

Thank you.

Yav,

I'd like to shift gears a bit.

I despise the fact that Fox acted as a propaganda outlet for Trump. I think that's dangerous to our democracy.

On that same note (MSNBC is the flip side to Fox but with a much smaller audience) I despise the fact that the big 3, NYT, WaPO,
CNN, and various versions of large city print media are slightly watered down versions of Fox for the DNC and left wing cultural causes.

I'm alarmed by how many old school liberal journalists with well documented records of accomplishment have been pushed out of corporate media outlets.

I often point out that trust in our news media is at all time historic lows. I also point out that it's 100% self inflicted.

Where I fail is upon introspection I think pointing that out comes across as gleeful. That is not the case at all. Now more than ever we need the 4th estate. It makes me sad and scared that they are failing so badly at doing their job.

" On that same note (MSNBC is the flip side to Fox but with a much smaller audience) I despise the fact that the big 3, NYT, WaPO,
CNN, and various versions of large city print media are slightly watered down versions of Fox for the DNC and left wing cultural causes. "

I want to amend this statement. I want to remove "slightly" from "watered down". What Fox did was unprecedented and it's not fair to the left leaning outlets to claim they are nearly as bad.

" They trust whichever ones are telling them what they want to hear that day.

#108 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-02-18 03:35 PM | FLAG: "

You are exhibit A

" when have I ever led anyone astray with a phony or false story?

#112 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-02-18 03:38 PM | FLAG: "

" MSNBC does not propagate lies"

It absolutely does. As do all of the other outlets I cited. The only differentiating factor is degree.

Old school journalists will cite our government and corporate media as the biggest purveyors of disinformation in this country.

#115. I was effing with him because he's a consummate troll who thrives off ridiculous equivocations.

" Yeah, I take back the "(possible exception of one)" and state that none of them are phoneor false.

#117 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-02-18 03:51 PM | FLAG: "

It's hilarious to me that you were likely a victim of auto correct by your phone with what I put in bold.

I was trying to have a civil discussion with Yav, Snoofy, not you.

He and I got off to a bad start but I think (hope?) that ended when he accepted my apology for inadvertently calling him a liar.

As for you, I treat you the same as you treat me.

" but flat out lies that MSNBC has propagated and pushed?"

Russiagate. It mirrored the media's treatment of the Iraq WMD justifications in so many ways.

Now, I don't know if I would call that outright lying. It was more acting as stenographers for well trained liars and a classic case of confirmation bias.

Years ago I swore off cable news. I briefly dabbled wit hDaily Caller about 10 years ago and quickly swore it off. Never looked at sites like Newsmax or OAN.

Fox took it to a new level when Trump came into office. You will get no argument from me on that.

" Guess what, folks?
You can't get a pair of tRumps gold lame sneakers.
They sold out"

Are you serious??!!??

I wouldn't accept those for free if I was barefoot in the snow.

" Civility is a cultural value. Like tolerance. You either have it or you don't.

#130 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-02-18 04:13 PM | FLAG: "

You don't have it. Not with any consistency.

Yav (if you are still lurking)

Thank you for accepting my apology and thank you for the polite discussion post apology. I have to move on. Real life is intruding. Enjoy the rest of your day.

" Democrats.

#142 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2024-02-18 06:53 PM | FLAG: "

Please point to the criminality.

For over two years we were fed a constant stream of "the walls are closing in". It never materialized. Schiff promised us he had more than circumstancial evidence, WMD style and never delivered anything.

It's absurd that some on the left cling to a narrative that was concocted by WAY more collusion with Russian assets than what Trump was accused of. The irony is massive.

" Oh that's right: you've refused to read the Rubio report, for fear of losing some of your precious talking point lies.

#151 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2024-02-18 09:30 PM | FLAG: "

The only one clinging to anything is you.

Trump is guilty of all sorts of bad things. Criminally colluding with Russia isnt one of them. You've swallowed the lies of the Obama holdovers.

The one who truly colluded with Russia was Hillary Clinton.

167. The info in the Steele dossier came from a Russian insider.