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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, August 16, 2024

Washington is absorbing the impact of Ukraine's lightning assault into Russia's Kursk region as the scale of President Zelensky's bold gamble emerges.

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"Longtime shifting stance"

The Pentagon is going to put long range JASSM cruise missiles on the Ukrainian F-16s. That only has 1 purpose. Russian deep strikes.

#1 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-16 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

It's not a dilemma.

That was the LAST of Putler's "red lines". Russia has now been invaded, and the nukes haven't been launched.

GIVE UKRAINE EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR. Send a thousand Abrams out of the desert. Send ALL the useless A10s if they even want them. Give them F35s.

This has gone on too long. In the next few days there will be 600k dead Russian kids. Give Ukraine ALL the tools to push the invaders out as quickly as possible, let's cut the unnecessary loss of life. Give them the missiles to sink the Kerch bridge, give them a f-ing carrier battle group.

#2 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-08-16 09:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Kremlin accuses the West of helping Ukraine attack Russia
www.reuters.com

... An influential aide to Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday that the West and the U.S.-led NATO alliance had helped to plan Ukraine's surprise attack on Russia's Kursk region, something Washington has denied.

The lightning incursion, the biggest into Russia by a foreign power since World War Two, began on Aug. 6 when thousands of Ukrainian troops crossed Russia's western border in a major embarrassment for Putin's military.

Ukraine said the incursion was needed to force Russia, which sent its forces into Ukraine in February 2022, to start "fair" peace talks.

But the United States and Western powers, eager to avoid direct military confrontation with Russia, said Ukraine had not given advance notice and that Washington was not involved, though weaponry provided by Britain and the U.S. is reported to have been used on Russian soil.

Influential veteran Kremlin hawk Nikolai Patrushev dismissed the Western assertions in an interview with the Izvestia newspaper. "The operation in the Kursk region was also planned with the participation of NATO and Western special services," he was quoted as saying, without offering evidence.

"Without their participation and direct support, Kyiv would not have ventured into Russian territory."

The remarks implied that Ukraine's first acknowledged foray into sovereign Russian territory carried a high risk of escalation. ...



#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-16 09:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Let's just say that if Trump was President and the U.S. was helping Russia (as Vladimir Putin expected) run roughshod over Ukraine to get back control of the former U.S.S.R., nobody in Russia would be complaining.

Russia is getting its ass whipped because their leader, Vladimir Putin, jumped the gun when he invaded Ukraine, thinking that Trump was going to win again in 2020, take the U.S. out of NATO and have Russia's back. Then Vladimir Putin jumped the gun again when he believed Trump was going to overthrow the 2020 and have Russia's back.

I suggest that Russia is pointing their finger in the wrong direction. Maybe they should look to their leader, Vladimir Putin, for making the mistake of betting all his chips on a political junk yard klunker like Donald Trump.

#4 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-08-17 12:46 AM | Reply

Sometimes the Stupidity runs so deep it's literally incomprehensible.

This is one of those times. NATO is obviously viewing this war as Existential as much as Russia is, for unclear reasons.

If Russia broke the lines and penetrated into Ukraine enough to threaten Europe itself what would their response be?

Would they bring in Troops? Tactical Nukes?

What?

Russia isn't wrong to view this war as a war Against NATO with Ukraine providing the Meat and Blood.

If Ukraine were to collapse suddenly, how would NATO likely react?

Askin' for a Friend.

#5 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 12:49 AM | Reply

a political junk yard klunker like Donald Trump.

Now that's a metaphor!

#6 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-08-17 12:54 AM | Reply

If Ukraine were to collapse suddenly, how would NATO likely react?

You've been----------- about Ukraine's imminent collapse for a few years now.

Go ---- yourself. Putin's big 'trap' in (whenever) didn't work out either, did it?

#7 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-08-17 01:01 AM | Reply

Not my point at all. I see no imminent collapse in Ukraine.

Just asking hypothetically, what would NATO do?

I think we both know the answer, and it spells Catastrophe for Europe and the World at Large.

Waiting for the "Chicken Little" stuff now.

#8 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 01:14 AM | Reply

REDIAL

We haven't seen Trump look this hangdog since Helsinki. I'm thinking maybe he got a nasty phone call from Vladimir Putin.

#9 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-08-17 01:15 AM | Reply

@#5 ... Russia isn't wrong to view this war as a war Against NATO ...

Pres Putin is wrong in that view.

He staged an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.

Now that that country is defending itself against that unprovoked invasion, Pres Putin is trying to blame NATO?



#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-17 01:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

it spells Catastrophe for Europe and the World at Large.

Yawn.

#11 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-08-17 01:36 AM | Reply

@#8 ... it spells Catastrophe for Europe and the World at Large. ...

Good to see the talking points issued to your current alias seem to acknowledge Pres Putin's aims.

He's not stopping at Ukraine.


#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-17 01:39 AM | Reply

You are entitled to your opinion, obviously.

I don't know what a good response would be myself. Trying to make this all about Putin is as stupid as trying to make WW2 In Europe only about Hitler.

The Germans loved the Vainglory and Expansion that Hitler's policies created.

Israel's slaughter of Palestine is similar, Netanyahu is not the problem, Israeli Ethnic Bigotry and Expansionism is.

The Leaders reflect to a large degree the Zietgeist of the people at large.

At very least a large plurality of the most influencial and Wealthy.

Putin isn't alone. If he were to be removed someone Worse would replace him for being too soft.

This has been the pattern of history for centuries.

Nukes make this Suicide.

#13 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 01:49 AM | Reply

Effet this is about winning in some fashion for Ukraine. For Ukraine the end goal is still get their country back in full. Ukraine doesn't have the resources to fight off meat wave after meat wave and advance themselves in Ukraine currently. Eventually the waves move forward little by little at massive tolls given Ukraine's current resources. So, you attack where they are not - they did not expect an actual invasion into Kursk and Belgorod. It gives Ukraine territory gains which can be swapped for their own territory. It forces Russia to remove the meat waves from Ukraine to fight thinned out IN Russia. It pushes artillery and air power further out from key areas. It also crimps Russian logistics and maybe JUST MAYBE causes Russians to really question WT* is going on. I do believe the prisoner count is approaching 3k as well. Including a lot of prized troops...

#14 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-08-17 02:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Or it's total desperation based on the inside knowledge in Ukraine that demographically they are near collapse.

Or that they just can't entertain the idea of losing the Donbass forever.

The Donbass is historically and culturally part of Russia.

NATO should have left this mess alone. They haven't saved lives.

They have killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Russia right or wrongly, sees this as a war with the West, not Ukraine itself.

That is just the truth, Putin saying it doesn't mean he created this belief. It doesn't mean He's lying.

Russia lost twenty seven million people fighting the original Nazis.

They aren't playing. If NATO sees this nearly as Existentially as Russia does World War in Europe has already begun.

If NATO is just trolling to "weaken Russia", and has no real deeper purpose in prolonging the agony....

NATO is an "Axis is Evil"

Which is it, Trolling or Existential?

#15 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 03:20 AM | Reply

#2 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-08-16 09:19 PM | Reply

It's not a question of just giving them stuff. They don't have the bodies. It takes 26 weeks to get a Ukrainian conscript onto the battlefield. Russia sends them in 2 weeks. They would have to generate an entire second and third air force worth of people and spend years training them to be able to use an F-35 effectively along with the logistics required, like the massive fleet of tankers only we own and are too valuable to give away.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-17 10:31 AM | Reply

Russia right or wrongly, sees this as a war with the West, not Ukraine itself.

That is just the truth, Putin saying it doesn't mean he created this belief. It doesn't mean He's lying.

It means he is megalomaniac.

Appeasing megalomaniacs like Vlad the Invader never ends well.

Reading a little world history would help you understand this.

He will not be remembered as "Vlad the Great" like he thinks.

Existentially as Russia does World War in Europe has already begun."

If that's true then it essentially began decades ago.

And PABs like you are apparently ready to surrender while Europe is winning. WTF is wrong with you? If you are aiming to be another Neville Chamberlain you are doing a great job of it.

(British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain (1937"1940) is most associated with the policy of appeasement towards Nazi Germany in the 1930s. Appeasement is a diplomatic strategy of making concessions to an aggressive foreign power to avoid war. In Chamberlain's case, this usually meant giving in to Hitler's territorial demands.)

#18 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-17 01:17 PM | Reply

Korea is a better example.

The US froze the lines and created a demilitarized zone. It's still there seventy one years later. North Korea has Nukes. They aren't going anywhere. China backed the Korean north against the West. The US was losing thousands of conscripts pitched battles that they often lost. The US accepted a cease fire that ended the slaughter. The north achieved a partial victory.

They didn't push for "Unconditional Surrender".

Why is that?

Why did they "Show Weakness" before "Tyranny" in Korea?

Because too many Americans were dying for nonsense.

This would have Ended,one way or another, long ago if NATO actually had real skin in the game. If Western conscripts were dying in huge Numbers.

It's Trolling, on an obscene scale.

Putin is a megalomaniac,fair enough, but NATO is showing,by their actions,that they aren't really afraid of him or Russia.

The Whole Putin wants it all back nonsense is just propaganda.

Even if he did want it all back, Russia has demonstrated clearly that they lack the capacity to do so.

NATO smells weakness in Russia. They don't fear Russian strength.

The Ukrainians are just Expendables to be pushed into Internecine Slaughter for the benefit of the West.

If NATO truly feared Russia they would have Negotiated long ago.

A cease fire gives Putin a similar partial victory. NATO "Can't Tolerate" that because no Western Troops are dying.

But NATO Can Tolerate the complete destruction of Ukraine and it's demographic collapse.

Why is that?

NATO is just BS.

#19 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 01:45 PM | Reply

Biden?

None of this is an issue for Biden.

He's not the president of Russia who launched an invasion into a neighboring country and has nothing to show for it.

When America presidents launch invasions, we're generally successful.

I'm sure Iraqis still haven't a clue why America invaded in 2003.

Neither do most of us.

#20 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-08-17 01:48 PM | Reply

So winning is all that matters? Bush is an Elder Statesman. Not a War Criminal.

Iraqis received the "Freedom" they were all yearning for. Nobody is to Blame.

There's Nothing to blame anyone for.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was a Total Success.

Frankly,the Iraqis should pay US reparations for the cost of securing their Freedoms for them.

#21 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 01:58 PM | Reply

"Operation Iraqi Freedom was a Total Success."

Ok. Now I know you are just trolling. You are either a Russian bot or a trumper and you have no idea what "freedom" actually means.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-17 02:08 PM | Reply

#17 | Posted by pressers_on at 2024-08-17 11:39 AM | Reply

Lot of chapped -------- need help.

but a sitzkrieg is the best kind of war. It's a war where nobody's at war and nothing happens.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-17 02:09 PM | Reply

#22 THAT WAS SARCASM. Kinda literal minded,ain't ya.

I meant a Joke, one you obviously didn't get at all.

Swing... And Miss..

#24 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-17 02:39 PM | Reply

If you thought after rolling through Ukraine that Putin wasn't going to continue into Poland, or another NATO ally, you are an idiot. By providing arms to Ukraine to fight off an obviously inferior force, the United States and NATO don't have to go to war with Russia over the invasion of NATO member. Putin was always going to test NATO's resolve. He has this bizarre picture of himself as the savior of the Soviet Union. Now he knows, do it and get is --- kicked up to his ears. It has also been a boon for NATO in learning which of our weapons systems work and which need work. As it turns out, NATO technology is far superior to that of the Russians, who have taken to covering their multimillion dollar tanks in tash to save them getting destroyed by $50 Ukrainian drones.

#25 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2024-08-18 04:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ukrainians penetrate Russia and cause discomfort

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-18 09:38 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

Re 26

Ukrainians do it deeper!

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-18 09:40 AM | Reply

The HIMARS that was caught out in the open and everybody on all sides confirmed destroyed.

The fog of war is hell lol. More videos dropped. It was inflatable and parked there on purpose.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-18 09:49 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I meant a Joke, one you obviously didn't get at all.

Swing... And Miss..

#24 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

I consider all your posts a joke.

Bazinga ...

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-08-18 10:55 AM | Reply

Then you should have known that one was a joke.

Sarcasm.. The assertion of the opposite of what is meant, to be humorous.

Also known as being a smart ass.

#30 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-18 06:17 PM | Reply

It's funny watching the armchair quarterbacks who take the MSM message and run with it. No one in this hemisphere know what's really going on. It's all a narrative to keep you tied to/ delivering their (the elite's) message. "bUt i rEaD iT oN tHe NeWs"

#31 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-08-18 06:21 PM | Reply

It's 2024. You can follow the events on the ground in real time without turning on the news.

#32 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-18 06:57 PM | Reply

The fog of war is hell lol. More videos dropped. It was inflatable and parked there on purpose.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg

A good ole WWII slight of hand ... without parachuting dummies.

This is a cool bit of history about one particular unit that had an average IQ of 119:

Ghost Army: The Combat Con Artists of World War II
www.nationalww2museum.org

#33 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-08-18 07:26 PM | Reply

@#31 ... who take the MSM message and run with it ...

So, we should believe your current alias instead?

#34 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-18 07:38 PM | Reply

Ukraine says it has destroyed another bridge in Russia's Kursk region
www.reuters.com

... Ukrainian air forces have destroyed another strategic bridge over the Seym River in Russia's Kursk region, limiting the supply capacity of a Russian group opposing the Ukrainian advance, Ukraine's commander said on Sunday.

Kyiv said it had seized more than 80 settlements over 1,150 square km (444 square miles) in Kursk since launching a surprise strike across the border on Aug. 6, the biggest invasion of Russia since World War Two.

"Kursk direction. Minus one more bridge! Ukrainian Air Force aviation continues to deprive the enemy of logistical capabilities with precision airstrikes, which significantly affects the course of hostilities," Mykola Oleshchuk said on the Telegram messaging app.

He posted a video showing a growing cloud from an explosion on a bridge and one of its sections destroyed. Reuters could not independently confirm the destruction of the bridge or the situation on the battlefield in Kursk. ...



#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-18 07:40 PM | Reply

It's funny watching the armchair quarterbacks

Sounds like a russki fan doesn't like what he hears on the news.

Even when it's confirmed by video, satellite imagery, our own intelligence, and even Russia.

#36 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-08-18 07:41 PM | Reply

#33 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-08-18 07:26 PM | Reply

You can order an entire army worth on Alibaba.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-08-18 07:59 PM | Reply

"Trying to make this all about Putin is as stupid as trying to make WW2 In Europe only about Hitler.
The Germans loved the Vainglory and Expansion that Hitler's policies created.
[...]
The Leaders reflect to a large degree the Zietgeist[sic] of the people at large."

It's good to know that you believe the zeitgeist of the current Russians is parallel to that of Nazi Germany. Welcome aboard!

#38 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-08-18 09:44 PM | Reply

"They aren't playing. If NATO sees this nearly as Existentially as Russia does World War in Europe has already begun.
If NATO is just trolling to "weaken Russia", and has no real deeper purpose in prolonging the agony....
NATO is an "Axis is Evil"
Which is it, Trolling or Existential?"

You just love your little false dichotomies, don't you? Of course, Russia's not "playing" (although one could easily get that impression from all the trolling that's come out of the Kremlin and Russian media), but they've shown themselves to be bluffing and blustering with their rhetoric. They need to be pushed back and given a "bloody nose" (as Turkey's President suggested back in 2014) for what they've done.

Unfortunately, there are some people in the West who decide to mirror the Kremlin's trolling. I don't agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact the Russian Federation is the one that decided to initiate this as a military conflict, and then escalate it; Russia is the one that supported insurrectionists and terrorists (including ones that shot down a civilian airliner.)

#39 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-08-18 10:15 PM | Reply

@#39 ... You just love your little false dichotomies, don't you? ...

Nah.

It just spouts the talking points it has been issued.

I've not seen anything to change my opinion on that.

#40 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-18 10:30 PM | Reply

I have no talking points,only evolving opinions.

Russia is all in. If the West and NATO are just cynically using Ukrainian Nationalist Aspirations to "weaken Russia" that is about a sick a thing as can be imagined.

As for insurrection that was Right Sector and the other NeoNazis who shot up the Maidan demonstrations,not government snipers.

More lies,more distortions.

Putin went too far by invading Ukraine itself.

In my opinion Russia should have recognized the Donbass Republics and sent Troops into the separatist held areas to reinforce the paramilitaries fighting the Ukrainians. They should have armed them the way the West is arming Ukraine itself.

They should not have invaded Ukraine proper but should have helped the separatists with arms and intelligence, possibly air cover.

They should have gotten the UN and the ICC involved investigating war crimes by the Ukrainian Government against the Donbass.

NATO had no role in Ukraine. They were just opportunistically exploiting the Ukraine for reasons unclear to me.

#41 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-19 01:10 AM | Reply

@#41 ... I have no talking points, ...

Yeah, sure.

What else yer got?


#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 01:21 AM | Reply

Allan Sherman - Hello Mother, Hello Father (1975)

Lyrics excerpt...

genius.com

...
Hello Muddah, hello Faddah
Here I am at Camp Granada
Camp is very entertaining
And they say we'll have some fun if it stops raining

I went hiking with Joe Spivy
He developed poison ivy
You remember Leonard Skinner
He got ptomaine poisoning last night after dinner

All the counselors hate the waiters
And the lake has alligators
And the head coach wants no sissies
So he reads to us from something called Ulysses

Now I don't want this should scare ya
But my bunkmate has malaria
You'll remember Jeffrey Hardy
They're about to organize a searching party

Take me home, oh muddah, faddah
Take me home, I hate Granada
Don't leave me out in the forest where
I might get eaten by a bear

Take me home, I promise I will not make noise
Or mess the house with other boys
Oh please don't make me stay
I've been here one whole day

Dearest Faddah, darling Muddah
How's my precious little bruddah
Let me come home if you miss me
I would even let Aunt Bertha hug and kiss me

Wait a minute, it's stopped hailing
Guys are swimming, guys are sailing
Playing baseball, gee that's better
Muddah, Faddah kindly disregard this letter
...


#43 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 01:27 AM | Reply

Dude seek help, you're Hallucinatin'...you see things that aren't there.

#44 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-19 01:31 AM | Reply

@#44 ... Dude seek help, you're Hallucinatin'...you see things that aren't there. ...

What things am I seeing that are not there.

Be specific.


#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 01:41 AM | Reply

Ian Dury & The Blockheads - Reasons to Be Cheerful, Pt. 3 (12" Version) (1979)
www.youtube.com

Be happy.

:)

#46 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 01:48 AM | Reply

"Dude seek help, you're Hallucinatin'...you see things that aren't there.
#44 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2024-08-19 01:31 AM"

IRONY FLAG!

#47 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-08-19 02:09 AM | Reply

@#47

Yeah, that was my first opinion.

#48 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 02:17 AM | Reply

Hidden "talking points" behind every post. That's what you're Hallucinatin'.

It comes across as delusional/dementia.

How old are you? I'd get tested.

Just because someone holds unpopular or even strange opinions doesn't make them a paid troll controlled by "handlers".

It just seems like a weird delusion to have and promote so avidly.

But you do you, I don't really care about your delusions.

#49 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-08-19 02:30 AM | Reply

@#49 ... Hidden "talking points" behind every post. That's what you're Hallucinatin'. ...

Oh, they do not seem to be all that well hidden.

But, do try harder.

:)

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-08-19 03:03 AM | Reply

F-feet's getting stepped on all over the place.

#51 | Posted by YAV at 2024-08-19 07:50 AM | Reply

"Putin went too far by invading Ukraine itself."

Twice in ten years, each time grabbing more territory than the time before. But you argue (or mindlessly repeat arguments) that he should be appeased for that.

#52 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-08-19 09:34 AM | Reply

The Kremlin likes to recognize all sorts of "republics". Anywhere, but not in the Russian Federation... Let's recall how Moscow returned and held Chechnya, Tatarstan, the Urals, and other regions by war and political intrigues.

from the Kaliningrad oblast and Karelia to the North Caucasus, the Urals, Siberia, and the Far East. We recall the aspirations for sovereignty or autonomy in different regions of modern Russia.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

#53 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-08-19 09:41 AM | Reply

The people of Kamchatka refused to participate in their parade of unity. The forced colonization and attempts to "reeducate" the indigenous people was not regarded kindly Russia, IIRC, forced a migration to take care of that situation (moving Russians in), but still punished the province by isolating it to a remarkable degree, forcing the propaganda as the only source of information.

(I always have had a soft spot in my heart for Kamchatka because of all the RISK games we used to play :)

#54 | Posted by YAV at 2024-08-19 09:55 AM | Reply

(I always have had a soft spot in my heart for Kamchatka because of all the RISK games we used to play :)

If more people played RISK they'd have a much better understanding of world geography as well as the complicated dynamics involved with land wars in regards to troop deployment, flank protection, and resupply issues.

#55 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-08-19 10:10 AM | Reply

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