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Monday, July 07, 2025

ChatGPT explained that the issue isn't necessarily the tax rates themselves, but how different types of income get taxed. This is where the system becomes genuinely unfair. "Billionaires benefit from tax strategies that lower their effective tax burden compared to what ordinary income earners face on wages," the AI explained. "The current system taxes work more than wealth."

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" The Guardian (@theguardian.com) Jul 4, 2025 at 12:59 AM

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"Here's what that means in practice:

When I get my salary, taxes come out immediately. When a billionaire's stock portfolio increases in value by millions, they don't pay taxes on that growth until (or unless) they sell those stocks.

Here's how it works:

Billionaires borrow money against their stock holdings (which isn't taxed), live off those loans and then pass their assets to heirs largely tax-free when they die. Meanwhile, regular people like me can't defer taxes on our paychecks or borrow against our retirement accounts without major penalties.

The AI used ProPublica data to illustrate this:

"The top 25 billionaires saw their wealth grow by $401 billion from 2014-2018, but paid just $13.6 billion in federal income taxes " an effective rate of 3.4% on wealth growth."

That 3.4% figure is what really stung. While they're paying their legal tax obligations on realized income, their actual wealth is growing at a rate that's taxed far below what middle-class workers pay on their salaries."

;;
"ChatGPT ran the numbers on what would happen if billionaires paid taxes at the same rate middle-class families do " around 15%-22%.

Using the ProPublica data, if those top 25 billionaires had been taxed at a 20% rate on their wealth growth, they would have paid around $80 billion instead of $13.6 billion.

"Extrapolate that across approximately 1,000 billionaires?" the AI asked. "You're talking hundreds of billions in added revenue annually."

''
"Middle-class families can't defer taxes on wages or borrow against stocks tax-free," ChatGPT pointed out.

This creates a fundamental unfairness where people who work for their money get taxed immediately, while people whose money grows through investments can delay or even avoid those taxes entirely."

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-06 10:30 PM | Reply

Billionaires have no right to exist

#2 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2025-07-06 11:03 PM | Reply

And people worry about rigged elections... this is Elitists rigging their own investments to win.

"How the Elite rigged Society (and why it's falling apart) | David Brooks"

www.youtube.com

terrific, funny, and terrifying

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-06 11:18 PM | Reply

"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley

#4 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2025-07-07 12:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Billionaires know this and are laughing at the rest of us all the way to the bank and all the back to their luxury yacht and all the way to their private jets and all the way to their third vacation home and then all the way to their luxury resort vacations and even while in their multi million dollar bunkers while the rest of us wait to die in a nuclear Holocaust or a global pandemic.

#5 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-07-07 12:39 PM | Reply

Billionaires spent pennies on the dollar to pay politicians to write the laws that allow them these tax breaks.

Which is why Public Financing of Elections (financed by the media and other corporations if they would like to keep their licenses) is of paramount importance to make the playing field just a bit more level.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 12:44 PM | Reply

Billionaires have no right to exist

#2 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2025-07-06 11:03 PM | Reply

Advice, first get an education and then get a job, then you might understand how economics works.

#7 | Posted by fishpaw at 2025-07-07 12:46 PM | Reply

- how economics works.

Bribing public officials to write preferred legislation used to be against the law... now it's not thanks mostly to Republicans.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 12:50 PM | Reply

"Billionaires don't pay taxes!" Dorky

Bezos paid roughly $2.7 billion in taxes in 2024.

#9 | Posted by fishpaw at 2025-07-07 12:53 PM | Reply

Bezos paid roughly $2.7 billion in taxes in 2024.

So less than 5%?

#10 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-07-07 12:58 PM | Reply

"ChatGPT explained that the issue isn't necessarily the tax rates themselves, but how different types of income get taxed. This is where the system becomes genuinely unfair."

as Trump said in his debate vs Hillary; I take advantge of the current tax codes like everyone else if you don't like it change it!

Democrats had both the house, the senate and the POTUS under Obama for 8 years! why didn't they change the tax code? you know the answer

#11 | Posted by Maverick at 2025-07-07 12:59 PM | Reply

"Billionaires don't pay taxes!" Dorky

Bezos paid roughly $2.7 billion in taxes in 2024.
#9 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

Didn't read the article again?

FTA:

ChatGPT explained that the issue isn't necessarily the tax rates themselves, but how different types of income get taxed. This is where the system becomes genuinely unfair.

"Billionaires benefit from tax strategies that lower their effective tax burden compared to what ordinary income earners face on wages," the AI explained. "The current system taxes work more than wealth."

Here's what that means in practice: When I get my salary, taxes come out immediately. When a billionaire's stock portfolio increases in value by millions, they don't pay taxes on that growth until (or unless) they sell those stocks.

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-07-07 01:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Democrats had both the house, the senate and the POTUS under Obama for 8 years!

Really?

#13 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-07-07 01:02 PM | Reply

- you know the answer

Yeah, Republicans made CU the Law and money = Speech. Now all politicians are on the dole; if they want to stay in Office, they need billionaire donations to compete.

- "Billionaires don't pay taxes!" Dorky

When making --- up is all you have.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 01:02 PM | Reply

why didn't they change the tax code? you know the answer

#11 | POSTED BY MAVERICK

Because billionaires control congress now no matter which party wins an election.

You can thank the Supreme Court and Citizens United vs FEC for that.

#15 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-07-07 01:03 PM | Reply

Really?

#13 | POSTED BY REDIAL

No.

Not really. 2 years at best.

Just another mags lie.

"Total control" of the Senate also requires 60 Democratic or Republican Senators to overcome a Republican filibuster to get legislation to the floor.

Dems also did not have that.

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-07-07 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Bezos paid roughly $2.7 billion in taxes in 2024.
#9 | Posted by fishpaw
So less than 5%?
#10 | Posted by REDIAL

That's one of the highest tax rates Bezos has ever paid.

He tends to average close to 1%.

#17 | Posted by Sycophant at 2025-07-07 01:27 PM | Reply

Bezos paid roughly $2.7 billion in taxes in 2024.
#9 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

You sound so proud that you (or your AI) dug up that little factoid.

I can see you both are not very good with the Maths

So if Bezos wealth increased by ~$8 million dollars an hour or ~$70,176,000,000 in 2024 (based on his stock holdings with Amazon).

Then Bezos only paid a ~3% tax on the wealth he gained that year.

Still ok with that?

#18 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-07-07 01:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#7 | Posted by fishpaw

The day I take advice from a MAGAT ---------- like you...

#19 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2025-07-07 01:35 PM | Reply

I don't hear any real argument that the AI analysis in incorrect... merely whining about how Dems could have changed it (they could not have) and no admission of the FACT that we have this inequitable taxation because of Republicans in Congress and the SC being bought and paid for enough to finally make this Bribery legal.

And, of course, the analysis does undermine most of the usual suspect's usual talking points.

#20 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 01:40 PM | Reply


When I get my salary, taxes come out immediately.
When a billionaire's stock portfolio increases in value by millions, they don't pay taxes on that growth until (or unless) they sell those stocks.

Your taxes aren't pulled immediately, they are reserved and paid quarterly by your company. Same thing would happen if a Billionaire was paid with a W-2.

But you can use the same strategy for your investments.

Why would you have to pay taxes on unrealized gains/losses?


Still ok with that?

Sure he didn't sell the stock, just like people didn't sell their homes. Do you expect people to pay taxes on unrealized home value increases?

#21 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-07-07 01:41 PM | Reply

Democrats had both the house, the senate and the POTUS under Obama for 8 years!
#11 | Posted by Maverick

Liar!

#22 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2025-07-07 01:42 PM | Reply

I don't hear any real argument that the AI analysis in incorrect...

That because you have a psychosis brought about by chatting with AI. You didn't read the article on this topic I left for you.

Basically LLL AI will send down a rabbit whole of confirmation bias.

Good luck CorkyDaBigot.

#23 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-07-07 01:43 PM | Reply

#23

No, 1Slut, you didn't read the article I posted here on AI psychosis days before you made yourself appear ignorant yet again by referencing the same article. Which seems to be a daily routine for you now.

And which subject has nada to do with this article on basic verifiable facts.

You are still just the 5 year old running around the Zoo with a stick rattling the cages... because that's all you know how to do.

You are nearly perfectly substance-free.

#24 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 01:49 PM | Reply

But you can use the same strategy for your investments.

#21 | Posted by oneironaut

No, most people can't.

Most people don't get paid in stock. Most people don't have large stock holdings that can make up for wages. Most people can't take out loans against their investments, even a 401K.

Most people make barely enough money to cover their monthly expenses and you are telling them to just live off their investments to lower their tax rate?

Do you even understand what the article is talking about?

How stupid are you?

#25 | Posted by Sycophant at 2025-07-07 01:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Most people make barely enough money to cover their monthly expenses and you are telling them to just live off their investments to lower their tax rate?

Let them eat deepfake!

-Oneironut

#26 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-07-07 01:54 PM | Reply

hey!

good thing we didn't put two billionaires in the White House who have been dodging taxes for many years using these very strategies shown by AI, right?

Make America Plutocrat Again!

#27 | Posted by e1g1 at 2025-07-07 02:06 PM | Reply

Do you expect people to pay taxes on unrealized home value increases?

#21 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-07-07 01:41 PM | Reply

Unfortunately if you live in a liberal state like I do that can't control their budget you do through property taxes.

#28 | Posted by fishpaw at 2025-07-07 02:07 PM | Reply

Hey, let's do this,

Using the ProPublica data, if those top 25 billionaires had been taxed at a 20% rate on their wealth growth, they would have paid around $80 billion instead of $13.6 billion.

"Extrapolate that across approximately 1,000 billionaires?" the AI asked. "You're talking hundreds of billions in added revenue annually."

Where That Money Could Go
The AI outlined several ways this massive revenue increase could transform government services:

Healthcare: We could expand Medicare and Medicaid, potentially moving toward universal coverage.

Education: Fund universal pre-K or make community college free for everyone.

Infrastructure and climate: Invest seriously in clean energy projects and fix our crumbling roads and bridges.

Debt reduction: Actually, pay down the national debt instead of adding to it every year.

ChatGPT noted that this extra revenue could "stabilize the economy by boosting the spending power of everyday Americans." Basically, reducing inequality in a way that helps everyone, not just those at the bottom.

We could actually go back to when America was great.

#29 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2025-07-07 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#28 | Posted by fishpaw

Fishpaw got something correct. Although, I suspect he doesn't understand that property taxes are often controlled at the county level. Even in conservative counties.

#30 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2025-07-07 02:24 PM | Reply

Democrats had both the house, the senate and the POTUS under Obama for 8 years! why didn't they change the tax code? you know the answer

#11 | Posted by Maverick

They did. They taxed the rich to provide health care to the poor. Now repubs are doing the opposite. Just like jesus would.

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2025-07-07 02:32 PM | Reply

"Most people don't get paid in stock. Most people don't have large stock holdings that can make up for wages."

I don't disagree with campaign finance realities but below (to your point) is where this disparity started to really take off.

www.politico.com

In his 1992 campaign manifesto "Putting People First," Bill Clinton called for a strict cap on the tax deductibility of executive compensation. The sky would still be the limit for CEO pay levels, but anything above $1 million would not be considered a reasonable business expense worthy of a corporate tax deduction.

It was a solid plan to discourage out-sized paychecks. Too bad it didn't last.

After their election victory, Clinton's top economic advisers persuaded the president (over Labor Secretary Robert Reich's objections) to insert a huge loophole in his proposal. So-called "performance" pay, including stock options and certain bonuses, would be exempted from the deductibility cap. Congress passed this proposal as part of a larger tax bill in 1993. In response, companies began limiting salaries to around $1 million and defining the vast bulk of compensation as a reward for "performance."

Now, this was a team effort of a republican congress and a democratic party president eager to get something done.

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2025-07-07 02:35 PM | Reply

actually I mispoke....it was a democratic party congress.

But I don't believe it was their intent that companies be allowed to deduct millions upon millions in executive compensation in "performance pay" even though that's what it did.

#33 | Posted by eberly at 2025-07-07 02:44 PM | Reply

Democrats had both the house, the senate and the POTUS under Obama for 8 years! why didn't they change the tax code? you know the answer

#11 | Posted by Maverick

No, he didn't. Where do you get your misinformation from?

Republicans won a majority in the House in the 2010 midterm elections.

Republicans won a majority in the Senate in the 2014 midterm elections

And Obama only had 4 months with a 60 seat majority in the Senate.

#34 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2025-07-07 02:46 PM | Reply

From google {left leaning} AI Overview: Latest full stats available---

"Based on the latest available IRS data for the 2022 tax year, the top 1% of taxpayers in the United States paid 40.4% of all federal income taxes."

NOTE: Their taxation remains the same as have been for the past ten years as those taxes now extended. SO all the remaining tax payers are only paying the remaining 59.6%.

Also of note:

"For tax year 2022, over 31% of US tax filers owed no federal income tax. This was a slight decrease compared to the higher percentages observed during the pandemic years (2020-2021) when expanded tax credits and stimulus measures increased the number of non-paying filers. The number of returns with no federal income tax liability tends to increase during periods of economic downturn and high unemployment."

#35 | Posted by MSgt at 2025-07-07 02:49 PM | Reply

Discussing rates and blame is pointless. The bottom line truth is that the rich are richer than ever while the middle class and poor are suffering.

Tax them however you want, but if wealth isn't redistributed from those who are hoarding it, the economy will collapse and the american dream will die.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2025-07-07 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

- the american dream will die.

That's definitely the Plan:

drudge.com

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2025-07-07 03:14 PM | Reply

Discussing rates and blame is pointless. The bottom line truth is that the rich are richer than ever while the middle class and poor are suffering.
Tax them however you want, but if wealth isn't redistributed from those who are hoarding it, the economy will collapse and the american dream will die.
#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2025-07-07 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag:| Newsworthy 2

The collapse is groomed into a manner of extricating and silencing any opposition.

Thus the militarization of police, increase in ICE, the drop in dollar value, faked tariffs and cuts within all institutions, not just the SCOTUS calculated abrasions to civil rights.

Could anyone imagine Biden installing an illegal private army operating within the United States abducting citizens who speak out, or are predicted to?

Even inserting two nickles doesn't get that result.

The man was such an antique robot he had no idea AI was stealing the election.

#38 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2025-07-07 06:28 PM | Reply

Poor people will die. That gives MSGT a chubby.

#39 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2025-07-07 09:36 PM | Reply

Hilarious so many people who don't understand economics are spouting opinions as if they are relevant. This entire article is a war against investments. What it doesn't articulate, and something the average person who isn't rich doesn't understand, is that those investments aren't just sitting there. Those investments are being used to support the entire economy. If a billionaire like Elon has 1t invested in TSLA, that money isn't just sitting there. TSLA is using it to do all sorts of things, almost all of which are mechanics of our economy. Maybe they use part of that investment for R&D which allows them to vastly increase the viability of electric vehicles (didn't think about that, did you?), or maybe they use part of it to subsidize the costs of providing childcare to TSLA workers, etc.

It's no different than a bank. It's why Elon can't just decide to liquidate all $1t. Instead, TSLA would have to make him wait so they can liquidate other assets to pay him his money. It's because the money isn't just sitting there. It's moving. It's shaking. In fact, billionaire investments are a big portion of our economy. Without them, we would still be in 1980s economy and probably not be the world power anymore (China would have vastly surpassed us by now).

I'm not saying there isn't a better way to make those investments help non-rich people. In fact, I have an entire plan whereby we could use the profit they make from those investments (capital gains at time of sale, dividends, options/futures profit, etc.) and help the average person. But, of course, there is no way I can know all of the logistics of making it happen so it's just a thought...but something I wish I could shop around.

What many of you need to hear is this...yes, rich people make a lot for doing little. Yes, what they are taxes, while not disproportionate, impacts them far less than the average person. But, the saying "fight fire with fire" is not just cliche. The money is out there to be taken. There are many legit ways to improve your station just by using investments, even with nominal amounts. I've done it. It took a ---- of a lot of work and trial and error but I was able to do it and I come from section 8 housing when I was 19. I'm not rich but I actually have a date for retirement now, when just 20 years ago I was still clinging to the idea I was going to die in my office because I had nothing to retire on.

It's out there. You can either whine about it and try to fight the system, or you can join in. Dr. Dre has one of my favorite lines about this principle..."I'm eating steak while they struggle to break the slave mentality". Sure, you can play the victim and that will get you so far. Or, you can change your mentality and reap the benefits. You can never know until you try.

#40 | Posted by humtake at 2025-07-08 12:56 PM | Reply

If a billionaire like Elon has 1t invested in TSLA, that money isn't just sitting there. TSLA is using it to do all sorts of things, almost all of which are mechanics of our economy. Maybe they use part of that investment for R&D which allows them to vastly increase the viability of electric vehicles (didn't think about that, did you?), or maybe they use part of it to subsidize the costs of providing childcare to TSLA workers, etc.

#40 | Posted by humtake

You've clearly not paid attention to the news.

Tesla's R&D is pathetic. Their cars have fallen behind the chinese. Their robots are marionettes. The cybertruck is glued together and falls apart. And elon is not doing shit to help his workers with childcare.

Elon used his TSLA fortune to buy twitter and elect fascist climate change deniers, undoing all the environmental good his company had accomplished. He's now using it to fund primary challenges to whatever politician doesn't bend to his will.

If you're rich enough to buy the government and make it serve your interests, you are too rich and your money needs to be redistributed.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2025-07-08 02:07 PM | Reply

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