A question for those of you who think farmers are so stupid for voting for a republican ... ... . what alternative strategy or campaign promise did the Democrats make in contrast?

" if you vote for Trump, you'll lose your workers. But if you vote for me, you'll get to keep them and have more of them."

Anything like that?

While you're thinking through that, ponder this question as well ... .. are any Democrats gonna campaign to farmers and tell them they will return the workers to them?

Is anyone gonna actually make that the issue?

-Pretty sure they did.

No, you're not.

If you were, I'd be seeing evidence of those campaign trail promises.

"I won't screw you on soybeans"
"I won't deport your illegal workers"

I'll wait.....

-these people aren't idiots for voting for Trump a third time?

I think voters are idiots anyway so these specific voters make little difference one way or the other.

For those of you who think they are idiots and it bothers you so much....then answer the question.

What alternative was laid out to them they chose to ignore or not believe?

We spend a generation at least focusing on social wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage and both sides work to control the large cities in those states...not the rural areas.

What alternative message did the farmers ignore? And let's be specific since you're -------- about Pennsylvania farmers......who campaigned in rural Pennsylvania and slammed Trump for what he said he was going to do to them and how they would NOT do those things and work in their favor?

immigrant workers, soybeans, etc.....the very things you're harping on today.

-Eberly blames democrats.

I voted for Trump. But I don't remember the issues specific to farmers being the reason. I didn't need that reason.

-the Dems didn't expressly state in minute detail how they wouldn't screw up the status quo to this extent.

minute detail?

no....."I won't kill your labor resources. I won't screw you on soybean prices."

You can avoid where this is going or just get there.......we both know where this is going.

OMG......I voted against Trump.

In any case.....I expect any and all democrats to LEAD with these issues next time when campaigning.

Do any of you?

"Trump very clearly stating during the campaign that he would do the very things he's doing"

He promised getting tough on illegal immigration. Like every candidate in your lifetime.

What else did he say that could be a challenge for farmers?

when did he say he would screw them on soybeans?

And again....if you're running against that.....why not offer an alternative.

Oh...wait....you're really really really smart and your idea is that democrats shouldn't campaign.

Instead, they should just let the GOP candidate do all the talking and then the voters can decide for themselves if they like it or not.

Why you're not in the charge of the DCCC is just baffing to us.

"If two Uber drivers showed up to pick up a passenger and one of them was a vanilla a&& normal driver with a mediocre rating who basically said "I'll get you there and there's a few free snacks in the back if you want" vs the second one who had previously picked up that passenger, assaulted them and threw them out before getting to the destination who pulled up yelling "yeah motherf*&^er! I'm gonna do it again but even harder and I've got some other Uber drivers who are going to follow me and help!"
And the passenger went with the second because [insert stupidly shallow irrelevant issue here]...
And then turned up with the s(*& kicked out of them, stripped of their belongings and whining that that Uber driver and his other driver friends assaulted them, took all their s*&^ and is keeping it while the police do nothing..."

This from someone who accused me of trying too hard to make a valid argument.

You're funny, JPW. Hell, everyone is laughing at that one.

What do farmers typically point to as the elephant in the room on how the federal government impacts them and their bottom line?

Meaning...the most important thing that impacts them?

-There was ample evidence and warning that this is exactly what would happen.

I remember Californians being scared by the media.

What did a single democrat running for anything in Nebraska say about any of it?

Then, do Kansas, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, etc.

"That was very clearly spelled out."

By who? Citation please.......and that was my original question, BTW. You could have just answered it back then....but here you are running a 4 mile treck when all you had to was jog 100 yards.

Democrats running for office in those states specifically "clearly spelled it out"????

Great. Let's see that. I'll wait.

"Trade (ie markets) and subsidies."

the farm bill, genius. that was the answer.

Republicans have gotten away with being very general on ag. "I support your industry and I'll work to make sure the farm bill is fully funded, etc...."

That's really all republicans have to promise.

And how do democrats campaign against that?

How do democrats campaign in contrast to republicans on agriculture?

-Or do you have such a low view of farmers that you don't think they were smart enough to figure out what was going on?

Do you know any real farmers, JPW?

You're in St. Louis, right?

Someone who farms 5,000 acres or so, runs 500+ head of cattle?

And by "know" I mean you understand a little about their business?

"I can't possibly argue against intentional obtuseness Eberly on a subject I know nothing about."

FT

Keep in mind, none of this is a defense for what Trump is done.

But if elections matter then why in the ------ hell don't democrats act like it?

Where is the documented effort on the part of the democratic party to campaign these farmers and offer a solution to their problems with trump (and his promises)?

Stop crying like little bitches and offer a reasonable answer to the question.

And....MOST importantly.....are the dems going to take advantage of this and campaign these farmers next time?

If I attacked inner city poor for voting for democrats....and then again and then again...and their situation is the same. Poor, bad healthcare, bad schools, bad conditions, crime, blight, etc....a very fair question would be "Well, did any republicans campaign in these neighborhoods and offer a solution to their problems??" That would be a very fair question to ask and expect an answer to before declaring all of these people as stupid and they deserve what they get, blah blah, blah, etc...crap.

-Did they or did they not know that tariffs on Chinda would happen and that they would likely disrupt trade and their market(s)?

by election day? tariffs on ag commodities? no, they didn't know.....and if you're going to argue they did....cite it and show where a single democrat tried to use it.

-Did they or did they not know that immigration crackdowns would decimate their labor force?

by election day? Again, immigration has been the biggest lie told by republicans for at least a generation.

-Is it smart to trust a man who previously significantly impacted your industry with his policies?

Specifically, how bad did farmers make out during his first administration? Specifically, what can you hang on Trump from that time?

-It's not a sound question.

for FFS. It is a sound question. I don't think you remotely understand what it's like from their perspective.

I'm trying to give you some perspective.

-You're still arguing as if it's normal times.

The last election wasn't normal times?

How so? Distinguish it from previous elections.

Lets see....we have a democrat and a republican running.

all the normal social wedge issues are in play. We have foreign hostiles, global warming etc....all the same stuff.

what was "abornmal"......except from your chair where you see Trump and nothing else matters?

-Your perspective seems to be their choice was between their own demise or something that wasn't well defined...

why are you dismissing "wasn't well defined" as nothing. Do you even realize that you're asking a group of voters to make a pretty big change?

Your perspective seems to be their "demise" was imminent because Trump ragged on illegal immigration.

You still aren't answering the question.............what was the alternative? What differences did farmers expect to get from democrats should they choose to vote that way?

And show me where those differences were campaigned on?

For all I know...democrats were out in those red states saying the same things as trump

"I actually agree with that."

It's not really even a formal declaration or argument from me.

It's a legitimate question I'd like to see an answer for.

If we are going to continue to piss and moan about how stupid these farmers are then try to understand how they see it from their perspective.

Nobody is trying to do that. Just declaring them retarded morons.

Well, if anybody here thinks they are smarter than them......then show me where the farmers rejected what was clearly a better alternative FOR THEM.

JPW seems to think they should be voting against Trump for HIS reasons....not their own.

-You seem to think that arguing farmers didn't know better is a good angle.

You seem to think you're successfully arguing they were clearly given an alternative before election day that wouldn't have generated the same result. That someone bothered to sell their alternative to them.

You're not.

Why didn't the democrats take advantage of such a blunder on Trump's part? Trump was handing the farmers over to the democrats. All they had to do was tell them they'll lose their labor and they'll get massively screwed on grain prices.

THAT would get their attention. And would in the next election if someone bothers to stand up and offer a solution.

-Change from what? Their usual voting habit in response to stated plans that would be massively damaging to their industry?

They didn't think that. Again, republicans have been lying about immigration forever.

You understand these farmers belong to cooperatives, both local and national, belong to national grain associations who all have lobbyists everywhere.

Where were warnings from those resources? Don't vote for Trump. He's gonna wreck your business!! Wait...no, they weren't hearing that. Where were the democrats with that message?

Again.....crickets.

-convince me otherwise that they're not idiots.

you think everyone who either disagrees with you are believes in anything different from you is an idiot.

Which is fine.....your life.

What really matters to you is whether or not any of them think YOU'RE an idiot.

And we know the answer to that from the posts directed at you daily here.

"his stated policies"

LOL

You all realize of course that JPW has declared the most honest politician in the history of the US is............you guessed it......Donald Trump.

"he clearly stated he was going to gut their labor force and destroy their markets."

LOL

not even close to being true....and even if it were close to being true.....the democrats missed it.

In fact.....where was JPW on these issues with regards to agriculture prior to the election.

Where did YOU predict their demise?

It was clear and obvious.

So.......when was this debated by you prior to the election?

-I've known plenty of people who disagree with me that I don't think are idiots

LOL

-So despite living through Trump 1.0 and his bad ag policy,

you're offering nothing up for that.....

okay......you managed to do what I asked for much earlier.

not bad. At least you found a little information on it being discussed prior to the election.

But it wasn't much more than just noise clearly.

and the dems were silent on this.

Farmers should have known better. okay.

Actually what shocks me the most is that farmers went ahead and planted soybeans this year.

They counted on, and still do, specific help for them.

Which is what they are asking for......help. Not a do over on the last election.

Let's see if a leading democrat campaigns on this.

-they are in fact...wait for it...stupid.

yeah...we know.

we are still traveling to the central point I'm making. I'm asking you to carry my very heavy luggage along the way.

Thanks, BTW.

"and they still voted for Trump anyway. Just noise, huh?"

exactly. they bitch and moan but their vote stayed the same.

noise and not much else.

-That's why all the information I posted is "just noise."

It is nothing but noise if they aren't considering another candidate.

where do any of those articles suggest listening to what a democrat wanting their votes has to say on the issue?

Where was Harris on these issues?

Could it be they didn't have time to address them because they were too busy campaigning in the inner cities and talking about abortion, gay/trans, minimum wage, etc...?

And I get why.....they are trying to win and it makes more sense to spend time in Philly rather than rural Pennsylvania...same goes with Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, ie large cities in swing states.

"The information about what was going to happen was out there. All they had to do was read it."

Read it? Where did any of it tell them to run from Trump? If anything, it was limited to how to diversify your crops and prepare for it.

I referenced all the local and national associations, buying groups, lenders, suppliers....all of whom make a living off these farmers. They all can talk to farmers and give direction.

where did any of them ever them to "Don't vote Trump"?

You think unions leave it to "the information was out there"? how about Minority advocacy groups? "our members should just know better!!"?

come on......

Everybody endorses candidates and candidates seek endorsements.

It's a pretty huge conspiracy for everyone out there to ignore it all and stick with Trump when they knew it would screw farmers this bad.

Hindsight is 20/20. We all know that.

But why did everyone in the entire industry stay silent? Including the democrats??

Here is another clue as to how all that messaging was just noise.

How does one campaign against Trump?

By calling him an honest man? Of course not. What democrat would ever do that?

How do you attack him for his lies and then insist he's telling the truth on trade and immigration?

-Red State Trump supporters deserve EVERY bad thing that happens to them.

At least Moder8 honestly admits where the issue ends for him.

Where Trump voters matter. Not where they don't.

That's why these piss and moan fests are directed at farmers in states Trump carried.

More farmers in California voted for Trump than many red states combined.

But no whining about them. Only the farmers in red states.

73

nothing stopping the dems from doing that.

nothing stopping them from showing them how trump is bad for them and how they're better.

especially in states like Pennsylvania where votes really matter.

it should be more like this...."Trump has almost entirely killed your farm and did kill many farms here. I won't let that happen. I'll protect your farm".

"California OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Harris.

California FARMERS voted for Trump."

You're not getting that, are you?

sorry.....76 - California farmers OVERWHELMINGLY voted for Trump

But you don't care about them getting screwed?

Zero objectivity from you? just whine about the results and who denied you what you wanted?

-Not a bunch dumb-**ck sheep-**ckers outside of Bakersfield.

Like I said.....no objectivity and no effort to mask what this is really about to you.

anybody who doesn't give you what you want.

they can go to ---- and deserve to suffer.

That's tolerance from a leftie, right there.

moder8 probably believes he's a tolerant leftie who genuinely cares about others.

But in reality.......every bit as bad as Boaz.

gotta get going.

I want to thank JPW for a great exchange. The rest of you as well.

I'm going to go see a 12K acre farmer tomorrow....review his coverages (pays around $275K a year in premiums)......I'm going to bring this up to him. He's a reasonable guy and you'd all swear he's very smart if you met him. very well spoken, educated, and runs a very successful farming operation.

-Where bouts is that??

SW Kansas....there are a lot of those out there.

-I expect farmers to keep voting for republicans.

Correct.

The dems won't lift a finger to help them. Or at least claim to help them.

BTW, 80%+ of our farm clients have college degrees.

Probably a higher % than the really really really smart folks here

-Whereas Republicans are actively hurting them.

A dem candidate could say that.

We've hand 10 or more cycles like this in the past century with regard to farms.

Trump has actively hurt them but there is no avoiding the cycles.

Had

"They're so smart they're all begging for help from the same people how are responsible for putting them in this situation."

Is this how you talk about Wall Street people who count on bailouts?

Car companies? Their unions?

Piss and moan who they vote for if they're coincidentally from a red state?

LOL

He'll never engage you nor will anyone else.

Ever.

You can't do it.

Stay on the porch, little fella ... ... where you belong.

101

Your point? The internet? The internet solves the farmers problems?

The internet.

Well, I'll let leading Democrats know they don't need to campaign anymore.

There is this thing called the internet.

Johnny ------- told me about it.

-Dems help America, despite your baseless claim they don't.

Pathetic liar. You want some attention? Is that it?

108

Perfect example of what I'm talking about. They introduced that after the election.

What good does that do for Democrats when they're running for something?

I have never criticized Democrats for hurting farmers.

A pretty strong argument can be made the Democrats have been better for agriculture than Republicans.

But they make an absolutely lousy case of that

you left out the second sentence, attention seeker.

post it.

The farmers didn't think Trump would ---- them....at least not more than a democrat would.

The entire ag industry didn't think Trump would ---- the farmers.

That's a big group of people with money and influence. All fooled, apparently.

Guess who else was fooled?

That's right.....the democratic party. If they knew (before the last election) this would happen they would have used in in the last election when campaigning.

they didn't..........I Know the democrats are accused of being terrible salespepole and campaigners. but they couldn't be this bad.

They didn't think Trump would do the China thing and soybeans and they didn't think he would really hammer immigration.

They thought he was lying. Spewing campaign rhetoric.

I know we have some folks here who think really high of themselves and would love for others to believe they had it all figured out.

They didn't. They didn't support Trump for reasons completely unrelated to agriculture.

"Then they should stop whining.."

LOL....you just confirmed you don't know any farmers.

Farmers are the biggest whiners on the planet.

I probably should have qualified that reality much earlier in this discussion. I assumed everyone knew that.

I'm totally serious.....there is literally no group of folks in the world more whiney than the US farmer.

they'll get through this......yes, some are really struggling but the industry will survive