A question for those of you who think farmers are so stupid for voting for a republican ... ... . what alternative strategy or campaign promise did the Democrats make in contrast?

" if you vote for Trump, you'll lose your workers. But if you vote for me, you'll get to keep them and have more of them."

Anything like that?

While you're thinking through that, ponder this question as well ... .. are any Democrats gonna campaign to farmers and tell them they will return the workers to them?

Is anyone gonna actually make that the issue?

-Pretty sure they did.

No, you're not.

If you were, I'd be seeing evidence of those campaign trail promises.

"I won't screw you on soybeans"
"I won't deport your illegal workers"

I'll wait.....

-these people aren't idiots for voting for Trump a third time?

I think voters are idiots anyway so these specific voters make little difference one way or the other.

For those of you who think they are idiots and it bothers you so much....then answer the question.

What alternative was laid out to them they chose to ignore or not believe?

We spend a generation at least focusing on social wedge issues like abortion and gay marriage and both sides work to control the large cities in those states...not the rural areas.

What alternative message did the farmers ignore? And let's be specific since you're bitching about Pennsylvania farmers......who campaigned in rural Pennsylvania and slammed Trump for what he said he was going to do to them and how they would NOT do those things and work in their favor?

immigrant workers, soybeans, etc.....the very things you're harping on today.

-Eberly blames democrats.

I voted for Trump. But I don't remember the issues specific to farmers being the reason. I didn't need that reason.

-the Dems didn't expressly state in minute detail how they wouldn't screw up the status quo to this extent.

minute detail?

no....."I won't kill your labor resources. I won't screw you on soybean prices."

You can avoid where this is going or just get there.......we both know where this is going.

OMG......I voted against Trump.

In any case.....I expect any and all democrats to LEAD with these issues next time when campaigning.

Do any of you?

"Trump very clearly stating during the campaign that he would do the very things he's doing"

He promised getting tough on illegal immigration. Like every candidate in your lifetime.

What else did he say that could be a challenge for farmers?

when did he say he would screw them on soybeans?

And again....if you're running against that.....why not offer an alternative.

Oh...wait....you're really really really smart and your idea is that democrats shouldn't campaign.

Instead, they should just let the GOP candidate do all the talking and then the voters can decide for themselves if they like it or not.

Why you're not in the charge of the DCCC is just baffing to us.

"If two Uber drivers showed up to pick up a passenger and one of them was a vanilla a&& normal driver with a mediocre rating who basically said "I'll get you there and there's a few free snacks in the back if you want" vs the second one who had previously picked up that passenger, assaulted them and threw them out before getting to the destination who pulled up yelling "yeah motherf*&^er! I'm gonna do it again but even harder and I've got some other Uber drivers who are going to follow me and help!"
And the passenger went with the second because [insert stupidly shallow irrelevant issue here]...
And then turned up with the s(*& kicked out of them, stripped of their belongings and whining that that Uber driver and his other driver friends assaulted them, took all their s*&^ and is keeping it while the police do nothing..."

This from someone who accused me of trying too hard to make a valid argument.

You're funny, JPW. Hell, everyone is laughing at that one.

What do farmers typically point to as the elephant in the room on how the federal government impacts them and their bottom line?

Meaning...the most important thing that impacts them?

-There was ample evidence and warning that this is exactly what would happen.

I remember Californians being scared by the media.

What did a single democrat running for anything in Nebraska say about any of it?

Then, do Kansas, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, etc.

"That was very clearly spelled out."

By who? Citation please.......and that was my original question, BTW. You could have just answered it back then....but here you are running a 4 mile treck when all you had to was jog 100 yards.

Democrats running for office in those states specifically "clearly spelled it out"????

Great. Let's see that. I'll wait.

"Trade (ie markets) and subsidies."

the farm bill, genius. that was the answer.

Republicans have gotten away with being very general on ag. "I support your industry and I'll work to make sure the farm bill is fully funded, etc...."

That's really all republicans have to promise.

And how do democrats campaign against that?

How do democrats campaign in contrast to republicans on agriculture?

-Or do you have such a low view of farmers that you don't think they were smart enough to figure out what was going on?

Do you know any real farmers, JPW?

You're in St. Louis, right?

Someone who farms 5,000 acres or so, runs 500+ head of cattle?

And by "know" I mean you understand a little about their business?

"I can't possibly argue against intentional obtuseness Eberly on a subject I know nothing about."

FT

Keep in mind, none of this is a defense for what Trump is done.

But if elections matter then why in the fukkin hell don't democrats act like it?

Where is the documented effort on the part of the democratic party to campaign these farmers and offer a solution to their problems with trump (and his promises)?

Stop crying like little bitches and offer a reasonable answer to the question.

And....MOST importantly.....are the dems going to take advantage of this and campaign these farmers next time?

If I attacked inner city poor for voting for democrats....and then again and then again...and their situation is the same. Poor, bad healthcare, bad schools, bad conditions, crime, blight, etc....a very fair question would be "Well, did any republicans campaign in these neighborhoods and offer a solution to their problems??" That would be a very fair question to ask and expect an answer to before declaring all of these people as stupid and they deserve what they get, blah blah, blah, etc...crap.

-Did they or did they not know that tariffs on Chinda would happen and that they would likely disrupt trade and their market(s)?

by election day? tariffs on ag commodities? no, they didn't know.....and if you're going to argue they did....cite it and show where a single democrat tried to use it.

-Did they or did they not know that immigration crackdowns would decimate their labor force?

by election day? Again, immigration has been the biggest lie told by republicans for at least a generation.

-Is it smart to trust a man who previously significantly impacted your industry with his policies?

Specifically, how bad did farmers make out during his first administration? Specifically, what can you hang on Trump from that time?

-It's not a sound question.

for FFS. It is a sound question. I don't think you remotely understand what it's like from their perspective.

I'm trying to give you some perspective.

-You're still arguing as if it's normal times.

The last election wasn't normal times?

How so? Distinguish it from previous elections.

Lets see....we have a democrat and a republican running.

all the normal social wedge issues are in play. We have foreign hostiles, global warming etc....all the same stuff.

what was "abornmal"......except from your chair where you see Trump and nothing else matters?

-Your perspective seems to be their choice was between their own demise or something that wasn't well defined...

why are you dismissing "wasn't well defined" as nothing. Do you even realize that you're asking a group of voters to make a pretty big change?

Your perspective seems to be their "demise" was imminent because Trump ragged on illegal immigration.

You still aren't answering the question.............what was the alternative? What differences did farmers expect to get from democrats should they choose to vote that way?

And show me where those differences were campaigned on?

For all I know...democrats were out in those red states saying the same things as trump