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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, April 11, 2024

President Biden has announced he will close the gun-show loophole that allowed guns to be sold without background checks. This new provision will enable the largest expansion of background checks for gun sales in 30 years.

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I support this but it doesn't go far enough. I feel any transfer of ownership/loan of firearm should require a background check. My brother has the habit of giving guns as gifts. He gave one to my stepfather once and stepfather. Stepfather says thanks and if any asks, you gave this to your mom. My brother didn't know that stepdad had a non-violent felony conviction on his record from 40 years prior.

There should be a way for anyone to validate the intended recipient of a firearm can legally possess one.

#1 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-11 12:42 PM | Reply

The GOP should like this action because they always say, it is not the gun, but the people using the gun.

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 12:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nearly a quarter of K-12 teachers faced a gun lockdown last year
www.axios.com

... Nearly a quarter of K-12 teachers experienced a gun-related school lockdown last year, while 18% are "very" or "extremely" worried about a shooting at their school, a new Pew Research Center survey found.

Why it matters: There's a massive teacher shortage, with many factors contributing to high turnover, including low pay, culture wars and fears about physical safety. ...


[chart is in the article]

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 01:55 PM | Reply

"Nearly a quarter of K-12 teachers faced a gun lockdown last year"

That's a feature, not a bug.

The bad news would be if there were never any gun lockdowns.

That would mean Liberals have succeeded in preventing We The People from exercising our Constitutional Right to shoot up schools.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-11 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'be been to three gun shows to look around asd see wht they were like, and at each the giun sellers had FFLs and were following the guidelines for purchases, i.e., calling the FBI line for the background check. Never at either did I observe a sale without than happening.

The supposed loophole does nots exist at gun shows and just another dem hone talking-point.

#5 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-11 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#5 ... The supposed loophole does nots exist at gun shows ...

How many gun shows did you go to? Just three? Were they all federally-licensed sellers?

How many guns shows were there over the time period you went to those three gun shows? How many of those gun shows had unlicensed private sellers?

... and then there is selling of guns by "private sellers" over the Internet...

How accurate is your sample?



Biden Closes Gun Show Loophole' -- Here's What To Know And When Rule Comes Into Effect
www.forbes.com

...

The Justice Department announced new rules that would force unlicensed gun sellers who primarily sell firearms at gun shows and online marketplaces to register with the federal government -- a significant change that could close the notorious "gun show loophole" and end one of the primary ways guns are sold without background checks in the U.S. ...

Former President Bill Clinton signed the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act into law in 1993, which required all federally licensed firearm vendors to conduct background checks before purchases -- however, this rule did not apply to private sellers, who could still sell firearms without background checks to other private individuals at gun shows or online marketplaces. ...



#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 02:37 PM | Reply

#5

Anecdote isn't evidence. But then, facts matter little to rwingers in any case.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2024-04-11 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Anecdote isn't evidence. But then, facts matter little to rwingers in any case.

#7 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2024-04-11 02:59 PM | FLAG: .... and what is your evidence other than hearsay?

#8 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-11 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BTW, Then there is this:
Bartering is an act of trading goods or services between two or more parties without the use of money

Good luck with the ATF identifying such.

#9 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-11 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#9 ... Bartering is an act of trading goods or services between two or more parties without the use of money

Good luck with the ATF identifying such. ...

So, you admit there are loopholes.

This new legislature is a good step in the right direction to start closing those loopholes.

Specifically, gun shows and internet selling.


#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'be been to three gun shows to look around asd see wht they were like...The supposed loophole does nots exist at gun shows and just another dem hone talking-point.
#5 | POSTED BY MSGT

There are more than 4,000 gun shows in the US per year. If the three you went to were all during the same year then your sample is size is less than 0.075% of the whole.

If you are interested in presenting your findings then I can arrange for you to come to St. Louis and explain the results of your definitive study to the students and faculty of St Louis Central Visual and Performing Arts High School where my niece was a student. Two years ago the school fell victim to a shooter who had first attempted to purchase a rifle from a licensed dealer at a gun show in St. Charles Mo. After failing a background check he tracked down a private seller at the show who sold him the AR-15 that he went on to use to shoot six people, killing two, just a few days later.

#11 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-11 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"After failing a background check he tracked down a private seller at the show who sold him the AR-15 that he went on to use to shoot six people, killing two, just a few days later."

That sucks.

That does not sway them.

There's no amount of dead bodies from guns which will convince Deplorables that guns should be regulated.

But you do one late term abortion...

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-11 06:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bartering is an act of trading goods or services between two or more parties without the use of money

Good luck with the ATF identifying such.

#9 | Posted by MSgt

Like when the gun lovers blow each other for ammo?

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-04-11 08:19 PM | Reply

@#12 ... That does not sway them. ...

Indeed.

It seems to show that their "it's not the gun, it is the person" excuse is for naught, since they seem to support the person committing these horrific crimes.


#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 08:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#13 ... Like when the gun lovers blow each other for ammo? ...

Yeah, sometimes I have to take a step back and wonder if the gun lovers ever think about the arguments they proffer.


#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 08:41 PM | Reply

fwiw...

Foster The People - Pumped Up Kicks
www.youtube.com

... and ...

Pumped Up Kicks
en.wikipedia.org

... Brief radio ban

Due to the song's dark lyrics, it was temporarily pulled from circulation on certain U.S. radio stations in response to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.[64][65] ...


#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-11 08:45 PM | Reply

Repug Lawmaker Left Loaded Handgun in Capitol Bathroom

coloradosun.com

Did he put his gun off to the side to do the Larry Craig two-step?

#17 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-04-11 09:30 PM | Reply

I'be been to three gun shows to look around asd see wht they were like

#5 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2024-04-11 02:29 PM | FLAG:

I have a much larger sampling of them attended and been specifically to buy and sell a few modern, but mostly historical, firearms.

You're right that everybody with a table selling guns has a FFL.

But if you don't see the few people walking through the show with a shouldered firearm and a FOR SALE sign on it, you haven't been to enough shows. Yes, of course it's not limited to shows, and yes there are idiots who think it's a gun show thing and not private sale doctrine that applies everywhere. Does it really matter? There's a reasonable line of when to do background checks for private sales, and selling guns to random people should definitely pass through an FFL vendor that can perform the check.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 09:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But can Biden unilaterally require background checks on intrastate commerce? Probably not. That's a power reserved to the state, no matter how retarded the state.

#19 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 09:09 AM | Reply

But can Biden unilaterally require background checks on intrastate commerce? Probably not. That's a power reserved to the state, no matter how retarded the state.

#19 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I doubt it qualifies are strictly intrastate.

#20 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-04-12 11:32 AM | Reply

The supposed loophole does nots exist at gun shows and just another dem hone talking-point.

#5 | POSTED BY MSGT

So I take it then that you MAGA maroons won't care and won't be upset at closing a loop hole that does not exist.

Right?

#21 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-04-12 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I doubt it qualifies are strictly intrastate.

#20 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2024-04-12 11:32 AM | FLAG:

Interstate transactions already require background checks.

The "loophole" is intrastate, and only intrastate, transactions.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 12:41 PM | Reply

But can Biden unilaterally require background checks on intrastate commerce? Probably not. That's a power reserved to the state, no matter how retarded the state.
#19 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

That's a question for the courts. Even if not, this still has broad reaching implications. It would still effect internet sales, anyone traveling outside of their state to buy/sell and depending on how the courts define what is intrastate, it could also factor in whether the gun was originally manufactured or sold in a different state or and how payment was made, i.e. paypal/venmo/etc.

Ultimately this rule is meant to counter what the ATF has identified as the leading source of firearm trafficking which is through unlicensed dealers. If I were a person who engaged in such activity then I would want to make sure I am compliance else I risk opening myself to prosecution should a gun I sell end up involved in a crime and traced back to me. As far as I know, the person who sold the gun involved in the CVPA shooting that I mentioned above was not subject to prosecution but would be under this regulation.
On the flip side, I would hope that law abiding gun purchasers would recognize that a seller not performing a required check is probably involved in some shady doings and not someone you want to buy a gun from.

#23 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-12 12:43 PM | Reply

#23 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE AT 2024-04-12 12:43 PM | FLAG:

Is it a question for the courts when we already know the answer? Besides the stacked deck, no admin seeking gun control measures have ever issued this EO because it doesn't survive any legal review. Federal power has limits.

Internet sales that cross state lines already require a background check.

Going to another state and buying a firearm, that already must be done through FFL dealers and requires a background check.

Not performing a background check on a private sale in a state that doesn't require it does not imply any illegal activity whatsoever.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 12:56 PM | Reply

"Internet sales that cross state lines already require a background check."

How does that get enforced?

I have PayPal you have a gun what's stopping us from doing business just on our own?

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-12 01:16 PM | Reply

Is it a question for the courts when we already know the answer?
#24 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

You might be right. This change might not go anywhere. Gun rights groups may get a stay on it before it is enacted and then get it tossed out on review. But if a stay is not granted while pending review and you happen to be an unlicensed gun dealer are you going to be willing to risk being the first person the government attempts to prosecute under this provision?

It may not but if you are a law abiding would be gun purchaser buying from someone you don't know at flea market/gun show/web site/etc, are you going to be more likely to trust a private seller who performs the check or one who does not?
If it is enacted and you are a law abiding would be buyer who wants to make sure the gun they are purchasing is acquired legally then are you going to view anyone telling you they don't have to perform a check on you with a good deal of skepticism.

#26 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-12 01:28 PM | Reply

#21 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-04-12 12:11 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1:

First of all you may be surprised to learn that that are very many democrats who own guns [and from I hear in the news, I do believe in Nov many of them may not be voting dem. [MAGA anyone?]

Secondly, law or not, absolutely unenforceable, so go ahead, as of course people will obey that rule [wink, wink] - just as much as biden is obeying the SCOTUS on the student loans ; )

#27 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-12 02:11 PM | Reply

are you going to be more likely to trust a private seller who performs the check or one who does not?

#26 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE AT 2024-04-12 01:28 PM | REPLY

Your logic is strange. The background check requirement isn't really about the seller. It's about the buyer (and straw purchasers). Anyways I think my state should require them in most situations, but they don't. Biden can't fix that for me.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 02:29 PM | Reply

Secondly, law or not, absolutely unenforceable, so go ahead, as of course people will obey that rule [wink, wink] - just as much as biden is obeying the SCOTUS on the student loans ; )
#27 | POSTED BY MSGT

This is not unenforceable. For instance, investigators know who sold the gun to the shooter involved in the CVPA school shooting that I mentioned above. They just have no means to prosecute the person because the seller was under no obligation to run a background check. If this provision was in place at that time then they could take legal action.

#29 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-12 02:32 PM | Reply

"investigators know who sold the gun to the shooter involved in the CVPA school shooting that I mentioned above."

Liability for sellers would fix this problem quick.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-12 02:39 PM | Reply

Your logic is strange. The background check requirement isn't really about the seller. It's about the buyer (and straw purchasers).
#28 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

What is strange about the idea that consumers would be more willing to put their trust in sellers who are meeting legal requirements instead of those who ignore them? If you walk up to two tables at a flea market and one tells you the law requires a background check and other tells you they don't bother with that because they don't believe it can be enforce, which one of them are you more likely to suspect might be selling you a gun with a dirty past?

#31 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-12 02:53 PM | Reply

"First of all you may be surprised to learn that that are very many democrats who own guns"

Why would that surprise me? I am a former Marine. I can shoot your eye out at 500 yards. Which I hopefully will NOT have to do on Dictator Day (aka The Purge) . (But please wear your red maga hat proudly that day so I won't accidentally shoot the wrong persons eye out..thx!)

Like me those democratic gun owners also want reasonable rational gun laws. As should all responsible gun owners. Don't you?

[and from I hear in the news, I do believe in Nov many of them may not be voting dem. [MAGA anyone?]

I hear from the news (with actual links!) that Biden has moved ahead in the polls!!

Joe Biden is Now Beating Donald Trump in the Majority of Polls

...

Joe Biden's Astonishing Polling Comeback

www.newsweek.com

www.newsweek.com

Rut Roh Rorge!

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-04-12 04:04 PM | Reply

"First of all you may be surprised to learn that that are very many democrats who own guns"

Chicago has entered the chat.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-12 04:19 PM | Reply

"President Biden has announced he will close the gun-show loophole"
Normally I read the articles and the comments and research the issue before commenting. In this case, it is entirely unnecessary, because my question (and presumably the answer) is so obvious. If Biden has the ability and authority co "close the gun show loophole" WHY THE ---- DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE FOURTH YEAR OF HIS PRESIDENCY TO DO SO? And I doubt there is a good answer to that question, 'cept election year politics.

#34 | Posted by Miranda7 at 2024-04-12 06:45 PM | Reply

WHY THE ---- DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE FOURTH YEAR OF HIS PRESIDENCY TO DO SO?

I hear this loophole makes no difference, so obviously it's virtue signaling to the Libs.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-12 06:50 PM | Reply

And if the loophole does make a difference, it's because this is a good time to pick this fight, politically, in an election year.

While also virtue signaling to the libs.

#36 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-12 06:51 PM | Reply

WHY THE ---- DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE FOURTH YEAR OF HIS PRESIDENCY TO DO SO?

Because, by doing so in an election year it puts the issue in front of voters at a time when they are making their decision on who to vote for. It is a given that this (and other EOs) will be challenged by Republicans in court. This will allow Biden (and Democrats in general) to argue their positions with the American people-see Republicans are fighting against common sense gun laws, student loan forgiveness, border security, etc. That way the voters see the difference between the parties and ------------ and can make an educated decision. It forces politicians to begin taking stances that can be used to help define candidates for office.

Your argument is that Biden did not do stuff like this earlier does not hold water. This EO will be challenged in court and will likely be struck down by the radical judges on courts.

And keep in mind Biden issued an EO for student loan forgiveness earlier in his presidency. Republicans sued and got the republican SC to strike his efforts down-negatively impacting the lives of 10's of millions of Americans.

#37 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-12 07:05 PM | Reply

Why the ---- are repug ---------- wearing AR-15 pins after school shootings?

#39 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-04-12 07:24 PM | Reply

Your argument is that Biden did not do stuff like this earlier does not hold water. This EO will be challenged in court and will likely be struck down by the radical judges on courts.

And keep in mind Biden issued an EO for student loan forgiveness earlier in his presidency. Republicans sued and got the republican SC to strike his efforts down-negatively impacting the lives of 10's of millions of Americans.

The problem is that in Biden's case, the statutory authority to issue EOs like Student Loan forgiveness is based on first following what prior conditions must be met before a President can exercise his authority. Sometimes that means studies, other times it means other ways of showing the conditions exist where the statute gave him the authority to act as he did.

To survive court challenges - without claiming executive omnipower like Trump does - one has to be able to show rightwing courts that you were only using the statutory powers Congress expressly empowered Departments with.

#40 | Posted by tonyroma at 2024-04-12 07:26 PM | Reply

Why would that surprise me? I am a former Marine. I can shoot your eye out at 500 yards.
Well I was a SEAL and I can kill you with an ashtray from that range before you can fart out your last buddy load.

#38 | POSTED BY FATBOOMBOOM

And I am an internet warrior fantasist and I can kill you and your family with AIDS from 501 yards!

#41 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-12 07:45 PM | Reply

WHY THE ---- DID HE WAIT UNTIL THE FOURTH YEAR OF HIS PRESIDENCY TO DO SO? And I doubt there is a good answer to that question, 'cept election year politics.
#34 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

Unlike some Presidential candidates, Biden does not believe himself to be a dictator. This change is one of Biden's campaign promises from 2020 but when he came into office the legislation was not in place to allow him to unilaterally make this sort of change.

I know this might be hard to remember for some but a long time ago we used to have a functional House of Representatives that was capable of passing legislation. During that time the Biden administration worked with Congress to pass what is known as the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act of 2022. Biden signed that into law during the summer of that year, one month and one day after the Uvalde massacre. Gun industry lobbying groups then sued the government because safer communities are not in the best interest of the bottom-line of companies that make weapons of death.
After some legal battles and a policy review process, this announcement is part of the administration's implementation of the provisions of that law. Expect more announcements over the months and years to come as more rules are finalized and we reach more of the dates for the provisions/funding to become available that are spelled out in that law.

#42 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-04-12 10:11 PM | Reply

But if you don't see the few people walking through the show with a shouldered firearm and a FOR SALE sign on it, you haven't been to enough shows. Yes, of course it's not limited to shows, and yes there are idiots who think it's a gun show thing and not private sale doctrine that applies everywhere. Does it really matter?

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-12 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Does it really matter? No.

Because there's this:

"The rule was issued under a provision of the 2022 Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. It requires that ANYONE WHO SELLS GUNS FOR A PROFIT to have a license and that buyers be subject to a background check, including at firearms shows and flea markets"

This is nothing more than campaign deecorations. Biden doesn't have the support to do what he really wants to do with guns.

#43 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-04-12 10:43 PM | Reply

Well I was a SEAL

Thank you for your service.

#45 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-13 01:27 AM | Reply

What is strange about the idea that consumers would be more willing to put their trust in sellers who are meeting legal requirements instead of those who ignore them? If you walk up to two tables at a flea market and one tells you the law requires a background check and other tells you they don't bother with that because they don't believe it can be enforce, which one of them are you more likely to suspect might be selling you a gun with a dirty past?

#31 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE AT 2024-04-12 02:53 PM | FLAG:

Your second guy is already illegal by ATF standards. He's in the business of selling firearms but has no license.

#46 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-13 10:31 AM | Reply

They need to update the system. Maybe have a voluntary system where you can have a thumbprint scan that does an instant check. All your data could be saved to the registry. Those that don't want to do the fingerprint scan can do the traditional way.

#47 | Posted by byrdman at 2024-04-13 12:52 PM | Reply

These laws are already in place in the majority of the states.

#48 | Posted by DMTDust at 2024-04-13 01:25 PM | Reply

"I have PayPal you have a gun what's stopping us from doing business just on our own?
#25 | POSTED BY SNOOFY"

The good sense to know the gun would still be registered to me via my original purchase.
I wouldn't trust you with a sharpened pencil, let alone a gun.

#49 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2024-04-13 04:10 PM | Reply

I wouldn't trust you with a sharpened pencil, let alone a gun.
#49 | POSTED BY PHESTEROBOYLE

The Second Amendment says you have no choice in the matter.

You have no choice but to trust criminals with a gun.

You like it that way.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-13 04:38 PM | Reply

@#50 ... You have no choice but to trust criminals with a gun.

You like it that way. ...

Apparently so.

The Republicans keep saying it is not the gun but the person, yet they fight attempts to follow-through on their comment.

#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-13 04:49 PM | Reply

PhesterOBoyle won't ever think it through.

All he knows is scary criminals have guns so he needs one too.

Brain activity ends there.

The fact that criminals have such easy access to guns because of the Second Amendment, that doesn't change anything.

Guns: The cause of and solution to all of PhesterOBoyle's problems.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-13 04:55 PM | Reply

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