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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, May 08, 2024

Russia carried out a "massive" missile attack on Ukrainian energy infrastructure overnight into Wednesday, according to local authorities, in the biggest aerial onslaught by Russian forces for weeks.

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It's really sad to see Russia devolve into such a neighbor-raping state. They had so much potential in the early 2000's, despite the internal problems. But the West was right to be cautious about getting too close with them too soon after the Cold War. And unfortunately, Paranoid Putin has proven them right.

#1 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-05-08 05:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's really sad to see Russia devolve into such a neighbor-raping state.

Its always been a neighbor raping state. See Georgia (gdb.rferl.org)

The destruction in this case, was "delayed" because of Ukrainian air defense systems.

Now that its capacity is eroded, expect more of this devastation from Putin, its how Russia rolls.

#2 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-08 06:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1


But the West was right to be cautious about getting too close with them too soon after the Cold War. And unfortunately, Paranoid Putin has proven them right.

This is incorrect thinking.

There's a phrase I heard, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

The US could have embraced Putin, and integrated the Wests economy with Russian people.

It would have made this sort of attack much less likely and deferred, perhaps extinguished this tribal struggle with Ukraine and Russia.

But here we are ... US sending grandchidrens money, and future Ukrainians are dying. For what?

Lindsey Graham and his ilk are horrible people.

#3 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-08 06:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"The US could have embraced Putin, and integrated the Wests economy with Russian people."

LMFAO.

Why on earth would Putin want to cede his power to The West?

What are you high on?

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-08 06:10 PM | Reply

#4

Putin obviously can't be at fault for wanting to Restore the Soviet Union states... so it must be out fault, right?

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-08 06:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not to mention, he's not restoring them, he's conquering them.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-08 06:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#3 ... The US could have embraced Putin, and integrated the Wests economy with Russian people. ...

The West had begun to move to incorporate the West's economy with Russia.

As evidenced by the number of US corporations that pulled out of Russia after Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine.

So, the thing your current alias' comment seems to have hoped for was destroyed by Pres Putin, not the West.


#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 06:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Not to mention, he's not restoring them, he's conquering them.

#6 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-08 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag

It's not like Ukraine didn't have a choice. Anyone with half a brain knew this would escalate to where it's at.

sEnD mOrE MonEy!!!!

#8 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-05-08 08:33 PM | Reply

Russia does Openly what the US does Covertly.

The biggest exception to that was most recently Iraq. We openly invaded and the Lame excuses given were clearly laughable at the time.

Ukraine has shown NATO the limits of the Alliance.

It's stronger than ever in theory. In practice?

Russia is still there, they don't seem to be leaving anytime soon either?

Just Sayin'

#9 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 08:34 PM | Reply

The bald midget said it would take three days, remember?

Or did you get the rest of RFK's worm?

#10 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-05-08 08:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The biggest exception to that was most recently Iraq. We openly invaded and the Lame excuses given were clearly laughable at the time.

I don't think President Dubya was renowned for being smart.

#11 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-08 08:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Vlad strengthened NATO immeasurably, pretty much ending his hopes of taking parts of Poland and other of his neighbors.

All because Ukraine has been able to resist the complete conquering of their independent country.

With a little help from their friends.

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-08 08:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

One thing you gotta give the Russians credit for. They are damned hard to dislodge once they take over.

It took almost 45 years to get them out of Eastern Europe and that was not done by War.

They pulled back voluntarily. Then successive American Presidents took advantage of their Largesse and expanded NATO East.

Putin has pushed back. The more things change.... The more they stay the same.

#13 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 08:53 PM | Reply

@#8 ... It's not like Ukraine didn't have a choice. ...

So, your current alias seems to be saying that Ukraine asked Pres Putin to invade them?

And, when Ukraine had a choice, they did not choose Russia...

Revolution of Dignity
en.wikipedia.org

... The Revolution of Dignity (Ukrainian: , romanized: Revoliutsiia hidnosti), also known as the Maidan Revolution or the Ukrainian Revolution,[2] took place in Ukraine in February 2014[2][1] at the end of the Euromaidan protests,[1] when deadly clashes between protesters and state forces in the capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych, the return to the 2004 Constitution of Ukraine, and the outbreak of the 2014 Russo-Ukrainian War.[1][2]

In November 2013, a wave of large-scale protests known as "Euromaidan" began in response to President Yanukovych's decision not to sign a political association and free trade agreement with the European Union (EU), instead choosing closer ties to Russia.

Earlier that year the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian parliament) had overwhelmingly approved finalizing the agreement;[26] Russia had pressured Ukraine to reject it.[27]

The scope of the protests widened, with calls for the resignation of Yanukovych and the Azarov government.[28] ...



#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 09:01 PM | Reply

@#13 ... One thing you gotta give the Russians credit for. They are damned hard to dislodge once they take over. ...

Tell that to the former SSRs in Europe.

#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 09:02 PM | Reply

The Eastern third of Ukraine went with Yanucovich.

They overwhelmingly voted for him. Ukraine was divided along what is today almost exactly the Front lines.

This was a Ukrainian civil war before NATO got involved.

Now it's open war with Russia.

Such a peaceful Alliance!

#16 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 09:45 PM | Reply

@#16 ... the Eastern third of Ukraine went with Yanucovich. ...

Yeah.

And there also are political divisions in the United States.

So what is your point?

Those political divisions are up to the country to resolve.

Or does that mean that some other country can mount an unprovoked invasion of the United States?

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 10:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This was a Ukrainian civil war before NATO got involved.

Now it's open war with Russia.

Such a peaceful Alliance!"

#16 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER
You are such a gosh damn liar. The truth was that tens of thousand of Russian special forces, security agents, propaganda units, intelligence units, regular soldiers without unit markings much less Russian flags on their shoulders and hired mercenaries had invaded Eastern Ukraine and were paying off locals, causing riots and mischief and handing out weapons to their buddies there. Please refrain from spreading Vlad Putler BS lies as the rest of us are just not that stupid to believe your BS.

"Then successive American Presidents took advantage of their Largesse and expanded NATO East."
Another bold face lie! Those countries that escaped the boots of Russian oppression immediately petition NATO to become a member so as to not face the possibility of going back under the Russian boots again. Just slink away back to your cave you traitor.

#18 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2024-05-08 10:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#18

Bravo!

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-08 10:32 PM | Reply

If the United States was massacring citizens who are not in agreement with policy? You tell me?

There was open war in eastern Ukraine for eight years. Tens of thousands killed and a similarly static Frontline.

Russia was saving lives. Dissent in Ukraine brought out the Nazis.

Dozens shot at the protests by right wing thugs.

Then they tried to pin it on government agents.

But it wasn't.

#20 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 10:36 PM | Reply

@#20 ... There was open war in eastern Ukraine for eight years. ...

And your point is?

What your current alias has not shown is why Pres Putin was justified in his invasion of a sovereign country.>

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 10:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He wasn't justified. I've never posited that he was.

But just watching Russians get killed and stepped on by the Ukrainians in Donbass wasn't politically feasible in Russia.

Putin had Russia behind him. He wasn't going rogue.

There was internal Russian pressure to do something. Invasion was too much.

Going to the UN, getting sanctions on Ukraine for human rights violations would have been my play.

But hey, I'm just a Bum in Va.

#22 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 10:48 PM | Reply

@#20 ... in eastern Ukraine ...

The other aspect of your current alias' attempted rationalization is that Pres Putin has said tht Ukraine (all of Ukraine, not just eastern Ukraine) should not exist.

So, maybe Pres Putin has backed off his original goals of taking over all of Ukraine?


Russians Planned a Victory Parade in Kyiv"but Dumped Their Formal Attire as They Fled (2022)
www.thedailybeast.com

... Russian forces that unsuccessfully tried to take Kyiv were so confident they would win they brought along outfits to hold a parade in the capital, a Ukrainian military official said Thursday. But they wound up dumping their parade attire when they were forced to retreat, according to Oleksandr Gruzevich, deputy chief of staff of Ukraine's ground forces.

At a briefing early Thursday, Gruzevich said Russian troops had left behind formal military attire in the Kyiv region. "If any of you have been in the liberated cities"Irpen, Bucha, Ivankov, Makarov ... you saw how much equipment the enemy left, how much of it was destroyed and how much of it was stupidly abandoned.

Along with that we are finding parade uniforms that they left, meaning the enemy planned to enter Kyiv in two days and then march through," Gruzevich told reporters. "For today we can say that those plans were disrupted and disrupted by the heroic efforts of Ukrainian armed forces and other defense units of Kyiv."

He went on to warn, however, that the capital city still isn't in the clear, as "it is likely the enemy has not given up the goal of a second attack on Kyiv -- there is such a threat." ...


#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 10:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#22 ... He wasn't justified. I've never posited that he was. ...

OK

So, apparent unwavering support is not justification?

Secondary question... why is your current alias trying to back away from Pres Putin?

Was a payment missed?

???

....

#24 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 10:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Putin had Russia behind him

Putin is Russia's Dictator for Life, made so because he, the State, owns the Media, and he, the Chief Oligarch, owns all the other Oligarchs.

Stop pretending that the average Russian has any input into what Vlad the Invader does.

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-08 10:57 PM | Reply

Stop pretending the Average American has any input in what the MIC does.

But in a general way the US population...usually goes along with whatever new war they desire.

Iraq is a great example. Incited by Bush,the rationale all fabrications by top
Government Liars.

Putin at least wasn't lying about the civil war in Ukraine.

#26 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 11:27 PM | Reply

Bush blatantly lied us into war with Iraq. Then handily won re-election.

So don't tell me Americans are peaceful people in love with Justice.

Russia is just the boogie man because they have interests that don't
align with what the American Elites desire.

They are competitive and the US elites don't like that one bit.

They disparage and ridicule Russia but it doesn't cover the stench of Fear.

Russia is no worse really, than anyone else.

Better than Israel, actually.

They don't target civilians Vindictively.

#27 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-08 11:40 PM | Reply

@#26 ... Putin at least wasn't lying about the civil war in Ukraine. ...

What did Pres Putin say about that alleged civil war?

Got a link?


And, for bonus points, how does what he said back up what he said about Ukraine's non-sovereign status?


#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-08 11:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Read Aljazeera excerpts from his address to the Russian people just before the invasion. Top listing on Google if you ask what Putin said just before the invasion.

I don't know how to put links into text. I'm kinda backward on some stuff.

#29 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 12:11 AM | Reply

@#29 ... Read Aljazeera excerpts from his address to the Russian people just before the invasion. ...

Good to see your current alias admit that Pres Putin's wanderings into the sovereign country of Ukraine is an invasion. That's likely a first.

That aside.

The rest of your comment is ... well..

...I'm kinda backward on some stuff. ...

Probably more stuff than your current alias may realize or want to admit to, in it's parroting of the talking points it seems to be issued.


And, if your current alias is interested...

From 2020. Yeah, this invasion is not A New Thing.

"There is no Ukraine": Fact-Checking the Kremlin's Version of Ukrainian History (2020)
blogs.lse.ac.uk

... Conclusion

The frontlines of the frozen conflict between Ukrainian forces and Russian-backed separatists are criss-crossing the plains of the Donets Basin, but they are also running right through the region's past. Russia's incursions into Ukraine have enjoyed tremendous support at home and, in some quarters, abroad.

Many have been slow to denounce them " or quick to embrace them " out of a conviction that the Kremlin has history on its side; that Ukraine has never been a real' country in its own right and that its south-eastern territories in particular are primordial Russian lands. Russia's political top brass, including Vladimir Putin himself, appear to subscribe to this belief as well, and by all appearances it has directly informed their policy towards Ukraine.

But as much as these assumptions may resonate with ordinary Russians, as well as some foreign leaders, a glance into Ukrainian history reveals that they are based on a dangerously distorted reading of the past. Ultimately, by redrawing borders and rewriting history the Kremlin is unlikely to have done itself a favour.

Through its intervention in Ukraine it has galvanised most Ukrainians in their aversion to Russia and has thereby done a great deal to demarcate the perceived differences between Ukrainians and Russians more clearly than ever before. ...




#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 12:33 AM | Reply

The last paragraph is true. Putin Has done them no favors.

He's just another Bush, but Russian.

When is Dubya getting prosecuted?

#31 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 12:48 AM | Reply

My point being the US has No Credibility as a Moral or Legal example.

Russia is no Worse,just in competition with the West.

#32 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 12:52 AM | Reply

@#32 ... My point being the US has No Credibility as a Moral or Legal example. ...

Article by Vladimir Putin "On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians"
en.kremlin.ru

... During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people " a single whole.

These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe. I therefore feel it necessary to explain my position in detail and share my assessments of today's situation. ...



#33 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 01:06 AM | Reply

Is he wrong? In the case of NovoRussia, ie. The Eastern third of Ukraine he may have a point.

Were Americans one people or did the South have a case as an independent country?

The South stood for Oligarchy and Human Chattel slavery. They were moral monsters.

But Legally, if not Morally they were correct about the right to
Secede.

The Union was originally intended to be voluntary.

Life can be Ambiguous.

Putin is a Turd, Eastern Ukraine and Crimea are Russia.

#34 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 01:18 AM | Reply

@#34 ... Is he wrong? In the case of NovoRussia, ie. The Eastern third of Ukraine he may have a point. ...

NovoRussia?

???

Can your alias be any more of a Putin puppet?

I mean really.

@#29 ... I'm kinda backward on some stuff. ...

That becomes more apparent with each of your current alias' posts.

So, what's yer point?


#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 01:32 AM | Reply

What is yours?

Mine is that Legal and Moral things aren't always in sync.

Putin is just acting like Lincoln did.

Ukraine was once part of their country. They don't accept the separation. If Lincoln had accepted the separation in 1861 perhaps many of the current political problems we face today would not exist. Perhaps the South would have changed organically without War.

Putin is making a great mistake. But letting Nazis kill Russians wasn't the answer.

Just like Lincoln freeing the slaves was Morally correct, but the wrong approach to the South. IMHO.

700,000 dead and a Century of Hate. Was it worth it?

The South is still in many ways like a different country from the rest.

#36 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 01:43 AM | Reply

"Stop pretending that the average Russian has any input into what Vlad the Invader does."

Russia is like a bigger, colder version of North Korea. NorKs also have no say in the goverment, but they regard the Kim family as being almost god-like. I remember watching a video where a man with an eye problem had his sight restored by a western medical support agency.. He was crying and giving thanks to Kim. Most NorKs are more than willing to die for the boss. It's how they have been raised.

Russia isn't as bad, but Putin enjoys a lot of support from the older Soviet generation who miss the prestige of being a global superpower. They regard the former holdings of the Soviet empire as a birthright. Unlike other great powers who shed their colonial holdings with dignity and went on to make their way in a post-colonial world, Russia did not. They didn't integrate into global markets or produce any cultural exports. In fact the USSR may have been more culturally and economically integrated than the Russia of today.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-09 01:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#36 ... What is yours? ..

That an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country is wrong.

... Ukraine was once part of their country. ...

So your current alias admits that end goal of Pres Putin.

That's a change.

But the issue is that Ukraine is not a part of Russia now.

Let me repeat that...

Ukraine is not a part of Russia now.


Nor is Poland. or any of the other former SSRs.

So, Pres Putin's attempt to try to recreate the former USSR is doomed to fail.

Indeed, his current attempt to that goal has approximately doubled the NATO border with Russia. And has strengthened Europe's resolve for defense of his incursion attempts.

And reduced, if not eliminated the economic ties the West was building with Russia.

So, how has Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country been turning out for him?

#38 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 01:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#37 ... Russia isn't as bad, but Putin enjoys a lot of support from the older Soviet generation who miss the prestige of being a global superpower. ...

I remain to be convinced that "superpower" and "Russia" should be used in the same sentence.

Yeah, Russia has strategic nuclear weaponry, but going down a couple steps from strategic, there's this country in Europe that seems to be putting up a good fight against Russia's unprovoked invasion.

So, for Russia it seems to be... destroy the world, or be humiliated.

#39 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 02:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Vietnam humiliated the US. Afghanistan humiliated the US.

Korea Humiliated the US.

War is unpredictable. Victory not ever certain.

Russia took its shot. They look like they are achieving their core objectives.

It's not Victory... capital V.... So what?

#40 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 02:07 AM | Reply

Superpower and Russia should definitely be used in the same sentence.

They have faced off with NATO and are holding their own. The Sanctions have not reduced the ruble to Rubble. They are outproducing the West as a war economy.

They are clearly able to stand opposed to the Western Alliance successfully enough to make the outcome in doubt.

In fact at this point in time they seem to be succeeding.

A far cry from what Russia was when Yeltsin groveled.

Russia has different aims than the West.

It's not clear to me what they all are, but it is clear the West is having great difficulty stopping them.

This is Superpower status, Moral considerations aside.

Denying this is wishful thinking.

#41 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 02:25 AM | Reply

@#40 ... Russia took its shot. They look like they are achieving their core objectives. ...

Yeah.

But no.

Pres Putin expected Ukraine to subsume to his unprovoked invasion in a week or so.

Do I really need to post the link about the dress uniforms again?

Pres Putin's goal seemed to be the capitulation of Ukraine to him within a week or so.

How long has it been now?

And how much has NATO's border with Russia increased in the past year?

And how many global corporations have pulled out of Russia?

And how is the EU's defense budget been increasing?

... They look like they are achieving their core objectives ...

So, what were Pres Putin's core objectives again?


#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 02:25 AM | Reply

DeNazifying Ukraine. Azov has been destroyed.

Keeping Ukraine out of NATO. They aren't a member.

Consolidating the Donbass with Crimea under Russian control. That's happening as we speak.

Defining a Russian sphere of influence. That's also happening in real time.

Frankly,I don't know exactly what the Russian objectives all are.

But it's clear they have achieved some of their stated ones.

Particularly the Annexation of the Eastern quarter of Ukraine.

#43 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 02:39 AM | Reply

DeNazifying Ukraine. Azov has been destroyed.
Keeping Ukraine out of NATO. They aren't a member.
Consolidating the Donbass with Crimea under Russian control. That's happening as we speak.
Defining a Russian sphere of influence. That's also happening in real time.
Frankly,I don't know exactly what the Russian objectives all are.
But it's clear they have achieved some of their stated ones.
Particularly the Annexation of the Eastern quarter of Ukraine.

POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2024-05-09 02:39 AM | REPLY

You lie like a rug. Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked. There's no Nazis there. Why do you insist on lying about this??

#44 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-09 02:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.state.gov

One of the Kremlin's most common disinformation narratives to justify its devastating war against the people of Ukraine is the lie that Russia is pursuing the "denazification" of Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin has referred to Ukraine's democratically elected government as a "gang of drug addicts and neo-Nazis," while Russian state media and propagandists have repeatedly called for the "denazification" of the entire population of Ukraine.

By evoking Nazism and the horrors associated with World War II and the Holocaust, the Kremlin hopes to delegitimize and demonize Ukraine in the eyes of the Russian public and the world. The Kremlin attempts to manipulate international public opinion by drawing false parallels between Moscow's aggression against Ukraine and the Soviet fight against Nazi Germany, a source of pride and unity for many people of the former Soviet republics who made enormous sacrifices during World War II, including both Ukrainians and Russians.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-09 02:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

@#43 ... DeNazifying Ukraine ...

Yeah, go with that. That seems to be the talking points fall-back position.

It only shows the ignorance of your current alias' posts.

But if that is all you have on the 'issues talking points list,' then I guess your current alias has no choice.


I mean really, get better talking points from your handler.

The ones your current alias has are embarrassing to itself.


#46 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 02:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#44 ... Why do you insist on lying about this?? ...

Simple.

Trying to equate Pres Putin's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine with Russia's victories in WWII.


Beyond that, the story line is similar to a Hogan Heroes episode.


#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 02:55 AM | Reply

The success or failure of Russia's mission to restore the old U.S.S.R. to its former power and glory . . . (and Mr. Putin's legacy as the greatest leader Russia has ever known). . . will be decided in this next U.S. election.

By now, I think we all know what that means.

#48 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-05-09 02:55 AM | Reply

You're joking right? There are plenty of Nazis in Ukraine.

They revere Stephan Bandera with huge statues in Lvov of recent vintage.

They allowed the Azov thugs to join their military as an openly Nazi unit.

The only country in the world to embrace Nazis in Such a way.

Putin overstated the Nazi angle to be sure,but it is not completely a fabrication, there is a Strong Nazi influence in Ukraine. Look it up, there's plenty out there to learn.

As for Unprovoked,...Provocation is subjective. Certainly The Russians had no interest in a hostile Ukraine in NATO, on their border.

That Was a Provocation. Even if the West denies it.

#49 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 03:02 AM | Reply

@#49 ... There are plenty of Nazis in Ukraine. ...

Since your current alias seems to know.

How many?

Be specific.

How many?

#50 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 03:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'll start with...

Ukraine's Nazi problem is real, even if Putin's 'denazification' claim isn't (2022)
www.nbcnews.com

... Of the many distortions manufactured by Russian President Vladimir Putin to justify Russia's assault on Ukraine, perhaps the most bizarre is his claim that the action was taken to "denazify" the country and its leadership. In making his case for entering his neighbor's territory with armored tanks and fighter jets, Putin has stated that the move was undertaken "to protect people" who have been "subjected to bullying and genocide," and that Russia "will strive for the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine."

On its face, Putin's smear is absurd, not least because Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Jewish and has said that members of his family were killed during World War II. There is also no evidence of recent mass killings or ethnic purges taking place in Ukraine. Moreover, labeling enemies Nazis is a common political ploy in Russia, especially from a leader who favors disinformation campaigns and wants to stir up feelings of national vengeance against a WWII foe to justify conquest. ...


A sidebar of that article...

... Putin's destructive actions -- among them the devastation of Jewish communities -- make clear that he's lying when he says his goal is to ensure anyone's welfare. ...

#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 03:14 AM | Reply

How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?

How many?

Russia is behaving horribly. The war was wrong. Is wrong.

They still are achieving some of their objectives.

NATO has been shown to be weaker than advertised.

The West is in decline. Russia is part of the world.

Get Over It.

#52 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 03:17 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#52 ... How many Angels can dance on the head of a pin?

How many? ...

The war was wrong. Is wrong. ...

Yeah, I am convinced that Pres Putin now realizes the strategic error in Europe of his unprovoked invasion of a sovereign Ukraine.

I also am convinced that there are Russian trolls here on this most august message board, trying to present Pres Putin's gross miscalculation in the best light.

With that in mind...

... NATO has been shown to be weaker than advertised. ...

Doubling the border of NATO with Russia in the past year is a weakness?

Does your current even read the talking points it is issued before it posts them? I mean, wow, WTF.

I mean, really...

I'll stop at that because I suspect any further comments of mine will be greeted with dashes....


#53 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-09 03:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

NATO was supposed to be the West standing together against Russia. Keeping the Ogre in its lair.

It has partly succeeded, no question. It's better than nothing, I guess.

But it's limits have been defined as well. All those Western economies but they can't keep up with the production of war materials. That's been shown.

Sanctions don't work well against a truly peer adversary. That's been shown.

With China behind them Russia could fight indefinitely. That's been shown.

The West is an Island. Not the Continent. That's been shown.

Maybe Peace is acceptance of Limitations?

On both sides?


#54 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-09 04:14 AM | Reply

They revere Stephan Bandera with huge statues in Lvov

LOL. Not him again...

#55 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-09 05:06 AM | Reply

.Provocation is subjective. Certainly The Russians had no interest in a hostile Ukraine in NATO, on their border.
That Was a Provocation. Even if the West denies it.

A normal person would be embarrassed to make this argument.

#56 | Posted by JOE at 2024-05-09 07:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"But here we are ... US sending grandchidrens money, and future Ukrainians are dying. For what?"

You're bitching about that, but you're whining that we didn't integrate fast enough with Russia's super corrupt economy and system, something they didn't even have a consensus about at the time. At the end of the Cold War, both they and we were still cautious about each other. Suggesting anything else is just pushing a revisionist history narrative.

#57 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-05-09 07:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

A normal person would be embarrassed to make this argument.

#56 | POSTED BY JOE

Russian trolls really do come here all the time. They always have.

#58 | Posted by Zed at 2024-05-09 07:44 AM | Reply

a truly peer adversary (Russia)

#54 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

But it just isn't. This is one of those things that you say that show that you are paid to say them.

I've been astonished at how desultory the Russians have been in their war against Ukraine. They are as desultory as they are savage. They have proven themselves good at wrecking things and killing people who are nearby. Not at being smart; not at winning wars.

The ONLY thing that's really keeping Russia in the fight is the hope that Donald Trump---that ----------- will be elected and stab Ukraine in the back. There will otherwise be a free Ukraine, and one with the best motivations in the world to join NAATO.

#59 | Posted by Zed at 2024-05-09 07:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#58- Unfortunately, I think at least one of them might have followed me here from another political forum. A certain poster in this thread has a style very similar to the ones there.

#60 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-05-09 07:59 AM | Reply

NATO has been shown to be weaker than advertised.

#52 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER AT 2024-05-09 03:17 AM | REPLY

It's the opposite. It has proved that NATO air dominance would take the 7 to 1 trade Ukraine is making now into 700 to 1.

#61 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-05-09 08:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's not like Ukraine didn't have a choice.

They could have surrendered right?

Ukraine is a functioning democracy that was enjoying a good standard of living and growth under a free system that was ridding itself of the corruption of the oligarchs.

Of course they became a target of the tiny corrupt dictator.

#62 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-05-09 08:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Russia is part of the world.

Russia has turned itself into a pariah on the world stage.

Only surrender monkeys and fascist oligarchs see it as a member of the world community.

Putin is no better than Hitler torturing and murdering neighbor states.

Nothing separates Putin's actions from Hitlers. Nothing.

He murders opponents at home and in other nations through poisoning and tossing off buildings.
He invades neighboring sovereign nations.
He kidnaps children.
He bombs hospitals, schools and apartment buildings.
His soldiers rape, torture and kills prisoners.

Anyone excusing his war crimes by saying he was forced to do these things is scum.

#63 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-05-09 09:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Go back to Russia Effete, go back to Russia.
Or at least the ruins of it...

Putin has doomed your homeland. He just hasn't
acknowledged it yet.

#64 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-05-09 09:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Vlad has targeted civilians from day one, contrary to EP's vacuous claims.

This is called history, as opposed to wishful thinking and obfuscation.

#65 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-09 10:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I remain to be convinced that "superpower" and "Russia" should be used in the same sentence."

You're correct. I should have said that older Russians enjoy the prestige held by the Soviet Union.

Russia today is most definitely not a superpower in any sense of the word.

#66 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-09 10:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They have faced off with NATO and are holding their own."

So did the Taliban. Are they a superpower?

#67 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-09 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Defining a Russian sphere of influence. That's also happening in real time."

It is?

Where?

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-09 11:00 AM | Reply

"You're joking right? There are plenty of Nazis in Ukraine."

When you say the term "Nazi," what do you mean?

They're supporters of the long-defunct German National Socialist Workers Party?

Historically, when I Russian referred to a "fascist," it was just someone they didn't like, or someone who had drifted too far from Marxist-Leninist ideology, or just might be a threat to the regime currently running the country.

Did you know that Ukraine's president is Jewish?

Is he the head Nazi?

#69 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-09 11:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Did you know that Ukraine's president is Jewish?"

Of course they do. They're just pushing the hyperbolic Russian propaganda like the kind you referred to in the previous sentence. That alias is not gonna be swayed by critical thinking, LOL.

#70 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-05-09 04:43 PM | Reply

Russia is going to win the long game. They have China financing them without prejudice whereas Ukraine only has the world's support conditionally and only in effect when it serves each country's purpose. If liberals were as concerned about Ukraine as they are about supporting terrorist organizations like Hamas, maybe Ukraine could get some real help to win the long game. But using pork legislation to try to get aid approved only validates they aren't serious.

#71 | Posted by humtake at 2024-05-10 02:59 PM | Reply

Nice try, humtrig.

How Putin Co-Opted the Republican Party

time.com

#72 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-05-10 03:05 PM | Reply

"Until the end of 2027, Russia will export gas to China at a rate 28 percent lower than its exports to what customers it still has in Europe."

www.newsweek.com

Why China's Russia ties are in sharp focus as Xi Jinping visits Europe

www.scmp.com

#73 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-10 03:08 PM | Reply

It's rather telling that Trumpers crave them some Authoritarian Dictatorships like we see in Russia and in China.

It's almost like they want to see the same thing in this country, what with Daddy Trump being their Hero.

#74 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-10 03:14 PM | Reply

Ukraine repels Russian bid to cross border

www.bbc.com

May 10, 2024

Today, we learn that Russia launched a major offensive on Ukraine's second largest city of Kharkiv in a massive failure.

Ukraine had already redeployed forces to the region which were waiting for the Russians to arrive. The Russians have taken massive equipment & troop losses with video evidence showing piles of destroyed Russian tanks and vehicles.

Zelenskyy says Ukrainian reserve forces have been called up and sent to the region. We also learn that the United States is set to deliver F16 fighter jets to Ukraine in just a couple of weeks (ahead of schedule).

Finally, we also see that a $400M Ukraine aid package including patriot missiles has been announced for Ukraine."

www.youtube.com

#75 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-10 03:41 PM | Reply

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