Thursday, December 05, 2024

Biden White House Is Discussing Preemptive Pardons

President Joe Biden's senior aides are conducting a vigorous internal debate over whether to issue preemptive pardons to a range of current and former public officials who could be targeted with President-elect Donald Trump's return to the White House, according to senior Democrats familiar with the discussions.

More

Biden's senior aides are debating whether to issue preemptive pardons to a range of current and former public officials -- including Cheney, Schiff and Fauci -- whom Trump could target upon returning to the White House. www.politico.com/news/magazin ...

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-- Tim O'Brien (@timobrien.bsky.social) December 4, 2024 at 5:53 PM

Comments

John Dean said he should, "pardon everyone'.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2024-12-04 06:44 PM

Given what the Trump nominees have been saying about their intent to weaponize the DoJ, I am surprised there is even a debate.


#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-04 06:53 PM

He should, some how Democrats have to survive all the lawbreaking.

#3 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-04 07:06 PM

Lewzer will pardon the guy that attacked Paul Pelosi. Won't get him out of prison, but it will still annoy the right people.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-12-04 07:10 PM

Biden should pardon everybody on Trump's vendetta list.

Fkkk that ----.

The office of the presidency shouldn't be able to be used for such stupid petty shht.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-04 07:11 PM

- all the lawbreaking.

Prolly about 10 percent, maybe 15, of all the lawbreaking. Republicans had a big edge there.

What with supporting and defending a criminal traitor President.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2024-12-04 07:50 PM

#6

Perhaps, no one is above the law right,?

Guilty is guilty

#7 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-04 08:18 PM

'No one is above the law' is a quaint, pre-Trumpism ideal these days.

Rwing populists, especially white ones, it seems, prefer authoritarian dictators who front for billionaires.

So... you might want to watch your step.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2024-12-04 08:31 PM

@#7 ... Guilty is guilty ...

Now do Pres-elect Trump.

Or is your "guilty is guilty" admonition only applicable to those who are not named Trump?

#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-04 09:41 PM

DHS report reveals that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has lost track of at least 32,000 unaccompanied migrant children, with the whereabouts of up to 323,000 remaining unknown

Pardon the people that lost 32,0000 children.

But a crime where there was no victim, that's what's important to the Lumpers.

Not the kids, unless their parents claim they are trans.

#10 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-04 10:04 PM

#9

What's Trump guilty of, exactly who was the victim?

It's so stupid as to be ridiculous.

#11 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-04 10:05 PM

He's guilty of trying to illegally overturn an election according the sworn testimony of his own supporters and staff, many of whom are in prison on the same charges he faces, Ostrich Boy.

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2024-12-04 10:15 PM

Amongst other things ...

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-04 11:10 PM

no one is above the law right,?
Guilty is guilty
#7 | POSTED BY 1LUMPYFOOL

You voted for Trump, he's a criminal.

You clearly have zero regard for the law.

You should just be honest, maybe someone can finally take you seriously.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-04 11:18 PM

sure go ahead...

isn't there are wasn't there a thread about lowering the bar on pardons ?

and pardons will turn into the same stupid manure that "you people" come up with on every issue / topic.

racist / cult / nazi / hitler / threat to democracy and yada yada yada....

and then it won't mean anything......just like "you people" when all you can do is puke out the same stupid.....coitus....stool

over and over and over ad nauseam....

--but sure...go ahead...

#15 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 07:14 AM

but sure...go ahead...

#15 | POSTED BY SHRIMPTACODAN

I agree and thanks for your permission Shemp (like Brandon needs your permission)

Anyway ... Like Nike says.

Just do it!

#16 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-05 09:46 AM

Do it. Let MAGA wail. We owe as much to them as they're willing to give us.

#17 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 09:51 AM

"racist / cult / nazi / hitler / threat to democracy"

All true. In spades. This how the resistance fights back.

More to come.

Here's hoping for Donald's early, natural, death. In order to shorten the pain for all of us.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 09:55 AM

18

You'll just replace him with someone else you'll wish to be dead.

#19 | Posted by eberly at 2024-12-05 10:50 AM

You'll just replace him with someone else you'll wish to be dead.

#19 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Maybe.

Pol Pot was on my list. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that he is dead?

Anyone grieve Stalin, even in Russia?

For some people, the best service they can give to humanity is to just pass away.

Argue that if you wish. That would be fun.

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 11:01 AM

-Pol Pot or Stalin? really?

how about JD Vance or Mike Johnson

Because those guys you'll be wishing dead soon enough......

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2024-12-05 11:08 AM

-Pol Pot or Stalin? really?

#21 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Did you want them alive? If so, why?

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 11:17 AM

"We're Democrats. Biden should not have pardoned Hunter. Now he should pardon Trump

What President Biden has basically just told the American people is that he can do what he wants, when he wants, even if he promised not to do

it "

Doug Schoen / Robert Green

#23 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 11:51 AM

How do you know republicans are absolute pieces of garbage.

They're upset the president saved his son from baseless accusations and attacks by the Republican Party.

Fkkking bunch of deplorables.

#24 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 11:55 AM

didn't know a preemptive pardon was possible.

If offered, I'd take one..I'd sleep better with one of those in my pocket.

#25 | Posted by eberly at 2024-12-05 12:11 PM

- President Trump commuted the sentence of his longtime friend Roger J. Stone Jr. on seven felony crimes

www.nytimes.com

- President Trump issued dozens more pardons on Wednesday evening to many wealthy and well-connected convicts with ties to his innermost circles.

www.npr.org

Deplorable Trumping MAGAts need to shut the fkkk up.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 12:15 PM

According to Ex Parte Garland, 71 U.S. 333 (1866), the President's authority to pardon is unlimited except in cases of impeachment, extending to every offense known to the law and able to be exercised either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.

#27 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 12:18 PM

"didn't know a preemptive pardon was possible."

Talk Of 'Preemptive' Pardons By Trump Raises Questions: What Can He Do?
December 2, 20201:27 PM ET

A presidential preemptive pardon sounds unusual, but it has been done before, most famously when President Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon, who resigned because of the Watergate scandal in 1974 but had not been charged with any crimes.

"A preemptive pardon is a presidential pardon granted before any formal legal process has begun," American University professor Jeffrey Crouch tells NPR.

In an email, Crouch, author of The Presidential Pardon Power, says that "someone must have committed a federal offense, but as soon as that happens, the president can grant them clemency. He does not need to wait until the alleged offender is charged, stands trial, and so on."

Crouch continues: "These pardons are not common, but they do happen occasionally."

www.npr.org

#28 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-12-05 12:18 PM

I'd sleep better with one of those in my pocket.

#25 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Especially since you posted online that you did not vote for Trumpy.

When they start offering rewards for us to turn in the "enemy within" remember that. I know I will if the reward is high enough.

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-05 12:18 PM

-Especially since you posted online that you did not vote for Trumpy.

mostly because I'd likely BE a criminal anyway so I'll take the pardon. Trump doesn't care that someone is a criminal...he only cares about loyalty.

#30 | Posted by eberly at 2024-12-05 12:27 PM

" This is a pardon, after all, and the Supreme Court's ruling in Burdick v. United States establishes that accepting a pardon carries with it "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it." If the Biden White House issued these pardons, they'd be doing the Trump administration's work for them by branding them criminals in some ill-defined way."

www.nationalreview.com

#31 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-05 12:40 PM

You voted for Trump, he's a criminal.

You clearly have zero regard for the law.

You should just be honest, maybe someone can finally take you seriously.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-04 11:18 PM | Reply

Have you seen what this thread is about? It's about preempted pardons for Democrats. Why would they need a pardon if no crimes were committed?
And if you want us to be honest you need to finally accept the truth, Trump won because of people like you, people just didn't want to be associated with whining, lying Harris supporters like you. Congratulations and thankyou.

#32 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 12:49 PM

#31 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It's time for people to start protecting themselves.

If pardons help with that, then print them by the thousands.

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 12:49 PM

#32 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

Many thousands of innocent people need pardons because you and Donald are coming for them.

If it weren't for you and Donald, and they way that you are, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Sane humans, when encountering rabid dogs, pick up sticks.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 12:52 PM

Have you seen what this thread is about? It's about preempted pardons for Democrats.

I refer you to post #26.

Change your diapers and turn off the Republican propaganda.

Stupid.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 12:53 PM

Many of these people have a life and a future. They don't want to be a pardoned criminal the rest of their lives.

Especially if they haven't done anything wrong.

So you can understand why they might reject the pardon.

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2024-12-05 12:53 PM

" This is a pardon, after all, and the Supreme Court's ruling in Burdick v. United States establishes that accepting a pardon carries with it "an imputation of guilt and acceptance of a confession of it." If the Biden White House issued these pardons, they'd be doing the Trump administration's work for them by branding them criminals in some ill-defined way."

www.nationalreview.com

#31 | Posted by BellRinger

This is why you don't let non-lawyers write about the law.

In Burdick v. US (1915), that part about imputation of guilt was dictum. It was NOT part of the ruling nor established as law.

In Lorrance v. Commandant, USDB, the 10th circuit said the complete opposite and that was part of the ruling, a key part in fact.

So as of right now, there is no clear legal ruling on whether a Pardon carries an imputation of guilt or acceptance of a confession other than the Lorrance decision.

#37 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 12:54 PM

#31 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

#32 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

In 1933 Germany, anyone who could get official paperwork establishing they were not Jews would be crazy not to.

It's not immoral to get something over on Nazis. Never has been; never will.

#38 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 12:54 PM

Have you seen what this thread is about? It's about preempted pardons for Democrats. Why would they need a pardon if no crimes were committed?

#32 | Posted by fishpaw

Because you don't need to commit a crime to be charged with a crime.

#39 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 12:55 PM

If the Biden White House issued these pardons,

If the last 4 years have proven anything, it's republicans don't got shht other than allegations and lies.

You're stuck living in an alternative reality.

Not to worry. Trump will shatter all illusion as he proceeds to destroy America over the next few years.

#40 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 12:56 PM

Many thousands of innocent people need pardons because you and Donald are coming for them.

If it weren't for you and Donald, and they way that you are, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Sane humans, when encountering rabid dogs, pick up sticks.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:
(Choose)

Hmmm, Biden and the the Dems used the DOJ to try and bankrupt and jail their political opponent. All Dems like you said were "if he's innocent then he has nothing to worry about." Of course now you change your tune.

#41 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 12:59 PM

Change your diapers and turn off the Republican propaganda.

Stupid.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:
(Choose)

I'm happy, it's you that whining like a newborn with a full diaper.

#42 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 01:01 PM

#35 And stop telling us to STFU, the country just told you to STFU. Deal with it, get some therapy if needed.

#43 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 01:03 PM

Have you seen what this thread is about? It's about preempted pardons for Democrats. Why would they need a pardon if no crimes were committed?

#32 | Posted by fishpaw

To insulate the person being pardoned for charges that might come in the future.

#44 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:03 PM

35 And stop telling us to STFU, the country just told you to STFU. Deal with it, get some therapy if needed.

Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 01:03 PM | Reply

Only 22% of the US Population voted for Trump. So no. America hasn't spoken. Please do educate yourself better before you opine.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:05 PM

Recent Presidential Pardons:

George W. Bush - 200

Barack Obama - 1927

Donald Trump - 237 - (Pardoned his political allies under investigation for crimes related to the charges against himself, protecting himself from charges)

Joe Biden - 27 (so far)

Most individual pardons by a President:

Woodrow Wilson - 2480

Largest pardon by a President:

Jimmy Carter - over 200,000 pardoned for Vietnam draft evasion

en.wikipedia.org

#46 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 01:09 PM

"Jimmy Carter - over 200,000 pardoned for Vietnam draft evasion"

The reason why my father, even though he was a Vietnam vet who received multiple, combat-related injuries, always had the highest regard for Carter, even though many of his compatriots felt the opposite. He said it was one of the first things Jimmy did when he assumed office and was part of the reason he ended becoming a Catholic Worker later that year.

#47 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2024-12-05 01:17 PM

Only 22% of the US Population voted for Trump. So no. America hasn't spoken. Please do educate yourself better before you opine.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:
(Choose)

America had a choice for which party they want to run this country, the Republican party or the Democratic party. Which one will control the senate, the house and the WH? So sorry, yes American did speak.

#48 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 01:17 PM

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-04 11:18 PM | Reply

Have you seen what this thread is about? It's about preempted pardons for Democrats. Why would they need a pardon if no crimes were committed?
And if you want us to be honest you need to finally accept the truth, Trump won because of people like you, people just didn't want to be associated with whining, lying Harris supporters like you. Congratulations and thankyou.

#32 | Posted by fishpaw

exactly !!

#49 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 01:27 PM

Only 22% of the US Population voted for Trump. So no. America hasn't spoken. Please do educate yourself better before you opine.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr

apparently you flunked civics...

the potus is elected with 50 separate elections ( and territories ) using the electoral college.

and 312 to 226 is a butt kicking....but I know you know how our Republic works.... so stop bs'ing.

AND BTW...final numbers finally in and even Washington State moved some to the right.

#50 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 01:35 PM

Also questionable as to whether or not one can be pardoned before any charges are brought against an individual, let alone fond guilty. This is one for the SCOTUS to decide.

#51 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-12-05 01:35 PM

#51 | Posted by MSgt

why was this pardon unconditional going back 10-11 years..

here's why....

pixabay.com

#52 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 01:39 PM

apparently you flunked civics...

the potus is elected with 50 separate elections ( and territories ) using the electoral college.

and 312 to 226 is a butt kicking....but I know you know how our Republic works.... so stop bs'ing.

AND BTW...final numbers finally in and even Washington State moved some to the right.

Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-05 01:35 PM | Reply

Apparently you're ignorant. Not surprisingly from Trumper. Trump didn't even get 50%of the total amount of votes cast and he beat Harris by about 1.3 percentage points. Hardly a butt kicking. Please do try again.

#53 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:42 PM

Also questionable as to whether or not one can be pardoned before any charges are brought against an individual, let alone fond guilty. This is one for the SCOTUS to decide.

#51 | Posted by MSgt

No.

Just no.

Not even remotely a question.

#54 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 01:43 PM

Are you idiots able to read?

- Donald Trump Pardoned his political allies under investigation for crimes related to the charges against himself, protecting himself from charges

You really are the dumbest people in America.

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 01:46 PM


Also questionable as to whether or not one can be pardoned before any charges are brought against an individual, let alone fond guilty. This is one for the SCOTUS to decide.
#51 | Posted by MSgt

He could, but it would be highly unusual. But then again Biden taking bribes from many countries would require a highly unusual set of pardons.

#56 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-05 02:19 PM

Apparently you're ignorant. Not surprisingly from Trumper. Trump didn't even get 50%of the total amount of votes cast and he beat Harris by about 1.3 percentage points. Hardly a butt kicking. Please do try again.

#53 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:
(Choose)

Not apparently but you are ignorant. American elects it's president based on the electoral college not based on the popular vote (which Trump also won) And 312-226 is an ass kicking.

#57 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 02:20 PM


- Donald Trump Pardoned his political allies under investigation for crimes related to the charges against himself, protecting himself from charges

You really are the dumbest people in America.
#55 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Whats interesting about a pardon, is that the person accepting the pardon cannot plead the 5th.

So I am not sure your assertion makes any sense, it wouldn't protect someone it would make them a liability.

That being said, you literally are the stupidest person I have ever seen post.

#58 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-12-05 02:21 PM

- Donald Trump Pardoned his political allies under investigation for crimes related to the charges against himself, protecting himself from charges
#55 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Whats interesting about a pardon, is that the person accepting the pardon cannot plead the 5th.
So I am not sure your assertion makes any sense, it wouldn't protect someone it would make them a liability.
That being said, you literally are the stupidest person I have ever seen post.

#58 | Posted by oneironaut

Wrong again.

Because there are still potential state charges, they can easily plead the 5th.

#59 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 02:26 PM

Not apparently but you are ignorant. American elects it's president based on the electoral college not based on the popular vote (which Trump also won) And 312-226 is an ass kicking.

#57 | Posted by fishpaw

Bless your heart.

Keep telling yourself that.

#60 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 02:28 PM

"and he beat Harris" #53 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well at least you're starting to admit it. Therapy?

#61 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 02:37 PM

Not apparently but you are ignorant. American elects it's president based on the electoral college not based on the popular vote (which Trump also won) And 312-226 is an ass kicking.

#57 | Posted by fishpaw

Bless your heart.

Keep telling yourself that.

#60 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-12-05 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:
(Choose)

And you can keep believing Trump didn't win if it makes the tears go away.

#62 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 02:39 PM

You dumb, dumb thing.

No one has said Trump didn't win.

Also, this isn't the first time one party has controlled the executive branch and the legislative branch.

You're all so use to losing, you don't know what to do with this win, so you're acting like its providence.

#63 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 02:43 PM

Whats interesting about a pardon, is that the person accepting the pardon cannot plead the 5th.
#58 | POSTED BY 1LUMPYDUMPY

Why would he need to?

He's been pardoned and therefore immune to being prosecuted.

You idiots really blew your load for Hunter.

Was it the dick pics?

#64 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 02:48 PM

#63 But it's the first time I've seen the losing party so butt hurt that there is a major shortage in therapists in this country.

#65 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 02:50 PM

You must be forgetting Republican's Reaction to losing in 2020.

You idiot.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 02:52 PM

#66 I just accepted it, forged ahead and continued to live my life. Democrats, not so much.

#67 | Posted by fishpaw at 2024-12-05 03:00 PM

So, lets say Adam Schiff and Liz Cheney would happily assume their own guilt for crimes of which they have not yet been accused?

What a stupid idea,

#68 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-12-05 03:04 PM

69!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#69 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-12-05 03:04 PM

What do you mean?

How are democrats objecting to Trump's win?

Have Biden and Harris been screaming into the microphones about how the election was stolen? Have all the swing states started recounting the votes? Has any democrat mentioned the words "Stop the steal?"

Are you able to actually acknowledge reality?

Other than a feeling of general disappointment and dread for this nation's future, Democrats have been surprisingly quiet about Trump's win.

Not even a single pink p***y hat has been made.

#70 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 03:18 PM

"pink p***y hats"

Signifying Donald's inner self?

Great idea.

#71 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 03:53 PM

So if Biden signs a rash of blanket pardons like he did for Hunter he's opening a huge can of worms that will set a terrible precedent.

Trump might as well bring in the Ohio Gang' like Harding did and just blanket pardon all of them.

Are lefties even capable of seeing past the end of their noses?

#72 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-05 05:24 PM

So if Biden signs a rash of blanket pardons like he did for Hunter he's opening a huge can of worms that will set a terrible precedent.

Trump might as well bring in the Ohio Gang' like Harding did and just blanket pardon all of them.

Are lefties even capable of seeing past the end of their noses?

Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-05 05:24 PM | Reply

Yawwwwwwnnnnnnn. Carter issued blanket pardons for draft dodgers. Blanket pardons have been done before.

#73 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-12-05 05:44 PM

It's cute people think Lewzer wouldn't do something if someone else hadn't done it already.

He never would have pardoned Bannon and Stone and his Ambassador to France, etc. if Joe hadn't pardoned Hunter.

#74 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-12-05 05:46 PM

What's really funny is BullBringer thinking Trump's actions will be less egregious if Biden follows decorum.

Republicans keep proving time again they have no interest in ruling justly, I'm glad Democrats are figuring that out.

#75 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-05 05:54 PM

#73

Yep, applied to "all persons" during a defined period. Conditioned on a conviction. Provided an application process.

www.justice.gov

#76 | Posted by et_al at 2024-12-05 06:00 PM

Are lefties even capable of seeing past the end of their noses?

#72 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Donald is corrupt. And mean. You don't get that because you don't want to get that or because that's what you want from him.

The country, and the good people still living in this country, need to protect themselves.

If offered a blanket pardon, I'd take it. Stupid not to.

#77 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-05 06:01 PM

If offered a blanket pardon, I'd take it. Stupid not to.

#77 | POSTED BY ZED

Especially with this particular incoming administration.

If Trump is stupid enough to threaten his political rivals and make a public enemies list and have them repeat it over and over and brag about it on Fixed News then just pardon everyone on that list so Trumpy has to just move on. And maybe actually do his job as spelled out in the constitution. There are some serious decisions about to be made and things that need to be done.

None of which include Revenge and Retribution on Americans.

#78 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-05 06:17 PM

re: #72

OMFG, what cojones to even type that. Irony has been dead and buried for centuries

#79 | Posted by hamburglar at 2024-12-05 06:31 PM

" Blanket pardons have been done before.

#73 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2024-12-05 05:44 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1"

Blanket pardon is what Biden gave to Hunter. The only other time that has been done was a more constrained Ford pardon of Nixon. You are talking about a mass pardon. In addition to Carter Lincoln did the same for the segregationists.

#80 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-05 07:15 PM

And stop telling us to STFU, the country just told you to STFU. Deal with it, get some therapy if needed.

#43 | Posted by fishpaw

STFU idiot.

#81 | Posted by jpw at 2024-12-06 09:26 AM

To the libbies here: Are you not curious as to why the hunter pardon goes back to 2014, OR, do you already know but are unwilling to acknowledge that....

#82 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-12-06 11:00 AM

" To the libbies here: Are you not curious as to why the hunter pardon goes back to 2014, OR, do you already know but are unwilling to acknowledge that....

#82 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2024-12-06 11:00 AM | FLAG: "

I'll answer for them. The entire Biden family is comprised of angels. Best and most wholesome people in the planet. Donald Trump is a big meanie and any hint of scrutiny into the Biden's' business dealings is evil. Therefore it's Trumps's fault that Joe Biden had to do the righteous and just thing and issue this blanket pardon. Plus, Hitler and shht.

#83 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 11:08 AM

Are you not curious as to why the hunter pardon goes back to 2014, OR, do you already know but are unwilling to acknowledge that....

#82 | POSTED BY MSGT

We already know and are willing to acknowledge that Trumpy would have not stopped digging to find something to harass private citizen Hunter with in his quest and promise of Revenge and Retribution.

I am curious how it is YOU don't understand. I am assuming it is denial. Like denying who won the last presidential election for four years.

When you are investigating a person and not a crime then your intent is not Justice but Revenge.

#84 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 12:03 PM

Are you not curious as to why the hunter pardon goes back to 2014 ...
#82 | POSTED BY MSG

I'm more curious what Hunter Biden was doing in 1984!

Where's his elementary class photos!!!!

Fkkk man. Thank god Joe rescued Hunter from these QANONsense morons.

They're sure Trump is innocent of what he's been found guilty of, but are sure Hunter is guilty of something republicans could never prove him guilty of.

#85 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 12:11 PM

I'll answer for them. blah blah blah. Plus, Hitler and shht.
#83 | POSTED BY BULLBRINGER

Well done, ------.

You're a shining example of why Trump prefers the poorly educated.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 12:13 PM

" I'm more curious what Hunter Biden was doing in 1984!

Where's his elementary class photos!!!!" - Clownshart

The people you worship did that exact thing to Kavanaugh and are trying it again with Hegseth.

You really should sit this one out.

#87 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 12:47 PM

Biden has some catching up to do on pardons
www.axios.com

... President Biden's pardon of his son Hunter ignited a debate over whether Biden was abusing his power for personal reasons, but he'll have to issue well over 100 more in his last few weeks in office to come close to his predecessors' totals. ...

By the numbers: Biden actually has been reluctant to show mercy " handing out just 26 pardons and commuting 135 criminal sentences since he took office in January 2021. He's granted just 1.2% of the requests he's received, according to data from the Justice Department's Office of the Pardon Attorney.

- - - President-elect Trump -- who had fewer acts of clemency than his recent predecessors during his first term -- had granted 29 pardons at this point in 2020.

- - - But in the final weeks as the nation's 45th president, Trump nearly quintupled his number of pardons, ending with a total of 144. ...

[emphasis mine]


#88 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-12-06 12:50 PM

11. The only case against Trump I ever thought was worthwhile was the document case. The others were so tenuous and reaching so far, I thought they were filed by the fantastic 4.

But the document case? The evidence for the improper storage, blatant disregard for the secrets, and the extensive cover up of it was outrageous. If he was a private in the army that had done a tenth of that with classified? He'd get 20 years in Leavenworth. Easily.

#89 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 01:02 PM

The people you worship did that exact thing to Kavanaugh and are trying it again with Hegseth.
#87 | POSTED BY BULLBRINGER

There are credible witnesses who have come forward against Kavanaugh and Hegseth, including Hegseth's mother.

You choose to ignore them.

There's nothing, and hasn't been anything, regarding Hunter Biden.

After four years of conducting a witch hunt, republicans didn't substantiate a single allegation against Hunter Biden.

But you're sure there's something nefarious he's guilty of! Based on zero evidence.

You're an absolute moron. It's what makes you such a useful idiot for the GOP.

#90 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 01:12 PM

The only case against Trump I ever thought was worthwhile was the document case.

The only case against Trump I ever thought was worthwhile was the recorded phone conversation between Trump and Georgia Secretary of State, where Trump asked him to help steal the election.

But. Unfortunately. Merrick Garland is a complete failure.

#91 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 01:15 PM

91. The reason I disagree, is because the language used wasn't as definitive as you are trying to make it out to be. His words were: "I need you to find" votes. Not "go make up some votes, invent them" whatever. It could very easily be him meaning " you sure there aren't any that you haven't counted, or should not have discounted ... ." Etc. In conversations like that the words matter very meticulously. And the president ... even that raging buffoon ... should be given wide leeway.

#92 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 01:28 PM

Mob speak

Now combine that with threats against taffensberger in the same phone call

#93 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-12-06 01:30 PM

That said, the document case was a slam dunk. A first year law school student from the Eastern Caribbean Law School (Online) could have won that case.

#94 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 01:33 PM

93 maybe. For me, he kept it vague enough That there is enough reasonable doubt to three point turn an 18 wheeler in.

I understand the sentiment, but according to rules of evidence and the elements of the crime, that language was almost a nonstarter.

I'm not an attorney, so my opinion means little, but I have some familiarity with the federal court.

#95 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 01:42 PM

The reason I disagree, is because the language used wasn't as definitive as you are trying to make it out to be. His words were: "I need you to find" votes. Not "go make up some votes, invent them" whatever. It could very easily be him meaning " you sure there aren't any that you haven't counted, or should not have discounted ... ."

But combine that with the fake electors case and you have a conspiracy.

And never forget Jan 6th.

Everything was related to that attempt at overturning the election.

There was plenty of evidence. There is only one reason Trumpy was not held accountable. For whatever reason (and there were numerous apparently) Democrats let the clock run out.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 01:51 PM

"For whatever reason (and there were numerous apparently) Democrats let the clock run out."

Democrats in elected federal office are generally wealthy, straight, and older. These are the types that will not suffer the consequences of the election like many of us will, so the need for action, even when they acknowledge the need, just isn't that urgent to them. Plus they have Citizens United to shield them from charges of inaction.

#97 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2024-12-06 01:59 PM

96 that's just not true. The insurrection on the 6th was one of darkest of our nation. But ... . There is plenty of evidence he enjoyed it. Even cheered it on. But evidence that he was part of it? That is lacking ANY sort of depth and requires logical leaps courts have never been willing to take.

It WAS an attempt to overthrow the government. But the people that perpetrated it, are appropriately in jail.

#98 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 02:55 PM

" There are credible witnesses ... "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

#99 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 03:02 PM

It WAS an attempt to overthrow the government. But the people that perpetrated it, are appropriately in jail.

#98 | POSTED BY ABH

The first sentence is true.

The second sentence is not.

One of the biggest mistakes the DOJ made was prosecuting from the bottom up thinking THAT would be the way to root out the leaders. It was not.

#100 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 03:03 PM

" There are credible witnesses ... "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

#99 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Well.. it's true ... most of them were republicans.

#101 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 03:05 PM

" There are credible witnesses ... "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

#99 | Posted by BellRinger

I know...right.....

this whole place has become INFO WARS reincarnated.

#102 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-06 03:07 PM

BUT I WONDER....

I wonder how many hundreds of millions of dollars would be lost to fires / bombings/ personal injury and

destruction of property we'd be up to .....if.....

Trump had pardoned any of his children for 10 years plus and regardless of the offense...

#103 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-12-06 03:09 PM

100. I just don't see it that way. They arrested the Proud Douches that plotted 1/6. They've all been jailed. Not a single email, text message, phone call has ever been shown to have occurred between those jack holes and Trump inner circle.

I could be mistaken and missed a connection? But as of now I've never seen any presented.

I can't see that charge surviving and judicial review as flimsy as it is. "You mean a politician asked his supporters to fight for him? The audacity!" Quell surprise.

He would need to have actually colluded with their planning for that charge to be pertinent. And it's just not there in what I've seen. If I'm missing something, please point it out to me, is love to ready me information I've missed.

#104 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-06 03:26 PM

BullBringer is sure trans women want to rape women in bathrooms.

But, BullBringer doesn't believe women when they say they've been raped.

BullBringer is sure Kavanaugh and Hegseth are innocent of any and all wrong doing!

But BullBringer is sure Hunter Biden is guilty of something, if only Republicans could have more time to figure out what it is.

BullBringer is convinced he's not a partisan hack.

But no one else is.

#105 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 03:34 PM

If I'm missing something, please point it out to me, is love to ready me information I've missed.

POSTED BY ABH

I am so sorry you missed it. Donald J Trump was directly involved in the conspiracy.

You must have missed the 98-page criminal indictment that laid out 161 actions and details the conspiracy and which tells a very clear story:

Donald Trump and his allies attempted to undermine the will of the American people in an effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 03:45 PM

There was plenty of evidence. There is only one reason Trumpy was not held accountable. For whatever reason (and there were numerous apparently) Democrats let the clock run out.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

The evidence didn't exist or they would have locked him up. Every part of that shttshow was pure theater in an attempt to interfere with an election. To make any other argument, you'd have to accept the fact that your entire party is made up of inept morons.

And the fact that this administration is actually doing the math on handing out pardons to people who haven't been charged with a crime, should tell you something.

#107 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-12-06 03:53 PM

Clownshart is a simpleton hack.

The end.

#108 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 03:56 PM

should tell you something.

#107 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Oh it does.

It tells me that Trumpy is vindictive ----- (like you) that would do anything he can to hurt anyone who dares stand against him.
He has even threatened to use the military on the enemy from within' the U.S. if he's reelected.

And you've elected him.

#109 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 04:02 PM

It tells me that Trumpy is vindictive ----- (like you) that would do anything he can to hurt anyone who dares stand against him.
He has even threatened to use the military on the enemy from within' the U.S. if he's reelected.

And you've elected him.

#109 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cry harder. This administration went after Trump and those loyal to him, not the other way around.

#110 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-12-06 04:15 PM

They are terrified of the thought of having to play by their own rules.

#111 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 04:17 PM

They are terrified of the thought of having to play by their own rules.

#111 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-12-06 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes they are. And those who engaged in the election interference need to be prosecuted.

#112 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-12-06 04:20 PM

This administration went after Trump and those loyal to him, not the other way around.
#110 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTURDS

Had Trump not committed so many stupid crimes, there wouldn't have been anything to go after him for.

Despite all your insistence, Trump should not be above the law.

#113 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 04:25 PM

And those who engaged in the election interference need to be prosecuted.

#112 | Posted by lfthndthrds

So then, no one will be prosecuted?

Mean and stupid ain't no way to go through life, son.

#114 | Posted by Zed at 2024-12-06 04:25 PM

those who engaged in the election interference need to be prosecuted.
#112 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTURDS

You elected him president, stupid.

#115 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-06 04:26 PM

Cry harder. This administration went after Trump and those loyal to him, not the other way around.

#110 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

There you go lying again.

"This administration" did nothing of the sort.

If there was no evidence of a crime Trumpy could never have been charged.

Which is, of course, exactly why Joe Biden has never been charged. No evidence. No evidence no matter how much money republicans wasted investigating him.

That must make you very mad.

So mad that you want revenge and retribution.

So ... Blanket pardons for everyone!

And then you can go duck yourself.

#116 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 05:59 PM

And those who engaged in the election interference need to be prosecuted.

#112 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

So. You really want to prosecute Elon Musk?

That's a bold move.

#117 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-06 06:01 PM

106: actually, I read the indictment. It was so vague, so filled with weak sentiments and evidence, I have seen much stronger cases be thrown out. It was weak sauce. Embarrassingly so.

Not a single shred of evidence that Trump or one of his cronies communicated directly with the seditious a holes that were know planned it because of their communications.

He sat on the sideline and cheered. He didn't tell them to stop. And that's enough?

Not in any federal court I've ever been in.

The government should have gone hard at the document case. He'd already be in jail by now. But it seems they threw their hands up quickly as soon as they faced a moron judge in bed with Trump. There was much they could do. But chose not to

#118 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-07 08:19 AM

Re 118

You can pretend there was no evidence but obviously there was.

And it's a little ridiculous for us to argue a case that has been dismissed but I will leave you with this:

Trump was inducted by a grand jury. Because there was probable cause to believe the had committed crimes.

A grand jury cannot indict someone without any evidence. (Hence no criminal charges can be brought against Joe Biden because there is no evidence of a crime)

A grand jury may issue an indictment for a crime, also known as a "true bill," only if it verifies that those presenting had probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed by a criminal suspect.

#119 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-07 11:31 AM

If you have ever been part of a grand jury, getting a true bill is almost a formality. It's the easiest thing in the world. Only one side is presented, there are almost zero rules of evidence.

And you must not have read what I wrote. What I said was, the evidence presented in the indictment was seriously weak. Like a case I could never imagine actually getting picked up except for the political implications.

There is no question about the documents case. Slam dunk, open and shut. But this one? Is basically a joke.

#120 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-07 01:36 PM

If you have ever been part of a grand jury, getting a true bill is almost a formality. It's the easiest thing in the world. Only one side is presented, there are almost zero rules of evidence.

You are starting to sound desperate.

If it is that easy to get a true bill where are all the grand jury indictments against Joe Biden?

After years and tens of millions of dollars spent investigating President Joe Biden and his family, Republicans have substantial evidence from agencies across the Administration, including the White House, DOJ, FBI, and IRS; banks; and private citizens, so ... why no grand jury indictments?

Because all of it shows no wrongdoing by President Biden, let alone any indictable offenses.

#121 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-07 02:35 PM

What I said was, the evidence presented in the indictment was seriously weak.

I am not going to debate any of the multiple charges in the indictment.

So you agree there WAS enough evidence to indict but, in your opinion, it was too weak. Lots of evidence and enough to convince a grand jury but was there was not enough evidence to convince you.

We can argue about that until the cows come home to no avail because now we will never know.

Because Trumpy will NOT be held accountable for his actions and it will NOT be presented in a court of law under oath.

#122 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-07 02:44 PM

My argument was never that there was no evidence. It was always that the case was too weak and political overreach that only served to ignite his base and actually sway people on the fence to his side.

They should have stuck with the one case that had real merit.

#123 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-07 03:33 PM

I have no idea why you world bring up Biden. There is less than zero evidence of his "corruption" and "wrong doing."

#124 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-07 03:36 PM

The Republican Party has been taken over by QANON morons.

They love conspiracy theories.

They're all sure the Biden's are guilty of something. No proof required.

At the same time, they're convinced Trump isn't guilty of anything, despite evidence and court findings.

#125 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-12-07 03:40 PM

My argument was never that there was no evidence. It was always that the case was too weak and political overreach that only served to ignite his base and actually sway people on the fence to his side.

And my argument that is just your opinion and complete nonsense.

There is no way they would go after the president of the U.S. without convincing evidence.

Especially the Revenge and Retribution Guy.

...

I have no idea why you world bring up Biden. There is less than zero evidence of his "corruption" and "wrong doing."

I brought it up as an example. If you could indict the President of the U.S. with weak evidence or no evidence or evidence that would not stand up under scrutiny in a court of law under oath then Biden would be under a thousand indictments.

#126 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-07 07:50 PM

Re 126

Should have been "President or former President".

Or maybe they are just waiting to indict Biden because Biden is currently immune.

I guess time tell.

#127 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-12-07 07:53 PM

126. That's coming. He had to be out of office first. The revenge tour is coming.

#128 | Posted by ABH at 2024-12-07 09:37 PM

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