ICE is out of control, or has been.

However, we don't need criminals being out of control, either.

ICE exists for a legitimate reason.

I would never support the idea of eliminating ICE, just reforming its tactics and objectives.

Dan,

"When will they start arresting gang members?"

I didn't know they haven't been.

Are you claiming ICE has only been arresting janitors and grandmothers?

Dan,

"Where were you when Trump promised to go after the worst of the worst?"

I thought that was what was going on in the beginning.

Did Trump say "only"?

Dan,

I heard about the bonuses.

Didn't I already agree ICE is in need of reform.

Fiend,

"#11 Mighty white of you, bj boi."

Isn't that literally considered racist?

Who still says that?

Dan,

"No need to clutch pearls; we all know you're going to vote to further enable them in November."

I might even convince someone here to vote with me, too.

Fiend,

I knew what it meant.

It's still racist.

Laura,

"No actually it isn't racist. Oopsie Daisy"

I believe it is.

Saying "that's mighty white of you" sounds like an implication of racial superiority or moral superiority tied to being white.

Dan,

"Instead, ICE has gone after the easiest of the easy."

How do you know that?

Have you been traveling embedded with them?

You have any earthly idea how dangerous their jobs are?

You're talking as though every ICE operation is simple and risk-free when you really don't know what they deal with.

Every day they go into situations most people would never willingly walk into, and they never know exactly what they're about to face.

Fiend,

"entirely convinced they are winning people over"

No...you have me all wrong about what I believe.

I appreciate people like you and Dan and Laura and others.

I frame my thoughts here that I use in the rest of my life.

Dan,

I won't discuss the specifics of those 2 deaths.

Who I believe is responsible and how they could have been prevented.

I will say I believe they died for their cause and their deaths were not in vain.

They both pushed the envelope and actually accomplished what they wanted to do.

Dan,

"They hide their faces and their badges"

Be honest with yourself for a moment.

You know good and well why they feel they must protect their identities.

If you can't show any compassion for them and their families, I'm really sorry.

Redial,

No...you aren't getting it at all.

They died for a cause.

I don't approve of their actions. That is what got them in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But, their deaths were not in vain, like so many are every day.

Clown,

"The sooner you and people like you die off."

You're making a pretty strong argument for bringing back asylums.

Snoofy,

Referring to my earlier post.

Maybe you and Clown could share a room.

I suspect you're both certifiable.

Fiend,

The reason I don't always discuss specifics is because it's not the point of a post.

I mean....you start out by accusing me of hating Renee. Why would I hate her? Actually, it appears to me Renee was likely going to follow directions but her girlfriend standing there urged her on to takeoff.

And Alex, there were several men over him and they were surprised to see a gun. The man who reached into the huddle and grabbed the weapon did so in such a way reaching between arms, they may have thought the gun was still in Alex's possession. Alex had a long standing history of using physical force.

In both cases it was unnecessary to kill them and ICE overreacted. Of course we know that now. Hindsight makes everyone an expert.

Two things happened as a result of these shootings. First, ICE has likely been given additional training and the anti-ICE protestors don't appear to be so forcefully aggressive interfering with ICE agents.

That's my opinion.

Snoofy,

These ICE agents are hiding their identities for their families sake.

These men don't need to feel threatened at home by some crazies who are obsessed.

Fiend,

Laura,

Referring to my earlier post.

They could add a couple more beds for you and Fiend.

The four of you could make your plans to bring turmoil to the world eradicating all law enforcement.

You four could go by the name KAOS.

Lamp,

"OK, now do ICE home invasions without a judicial warrant."

I wasn't aware that warrants were always required by law.

There are circumstances where ICE is allowed to enter.

And sometimes ICE must have a warrant.

Snoofy,

People often accuse Christians of treating the Bible like a menu.

"I'll take this verse, skip that one, and ignore the uncomfortable parts."

In other words, they accept the scriptures they like and disregard the rest.

I'm not a lawyer, but it appears people often do something similar with the Constitution.

Then you have the plethora of court rulings interpreting the Constitution, sometimes differently depending on the circumstances and legal arguments involved.

I don't claim to fully understand all the laws involving ICE.

But people can't honestly pretend they support the Constitution while selectively deciding which legal interpretations or court rulings they accept only when it benefits their side politically.

Regarding ICE specifically, sometimes judicial warrants are required and sometimes they aren't, depending on the situation and the laws involved.

That's simply the legal reality whether people like it or not.

Snoofy,

Obviously you missed your calling.

Instead of trolling blogs, you should be a judge since you believe yourself qualified.

Fiend,

"Do tell us, "Perry Mason," when are judicial warrants NOT required ? ? ? ?"

I'm not the one who fancies themself on par with a lawyer.

You should be asking Snoofy. He's the legal expert.

Snoofy,

How about the 2nd Amendment? What does it say?

Doc,

"Probably not what you think it says."

No doubt neither does the 4th.

Db,

What does linking to scripture have anything to do with ICE, the Constitution or amendments?

Fiend,

I'm dropping out of this nonsense.

Let the experts talk among themselves.

Db,

Good thing I'm not admin.

Db,

"rather than responding to questions you've prompted."

I've been insulted all my life. Comes with being a gay person.

My parents rejected me and it was ugly crap.

The military was horrible and pushed me out for being gay. The process was awful.

My career I have helped so many companies with their accounting and endured so much from them. It was usually a few months so I just took it. Most of the time I'm finding stuff people do wrong.

May last job was hell. There was the usual owners son who is so often an a%%. I am really quite gifted doing the work I did.

So...I come on here and take crap from ------ who are so brain washed it's pathetic.

If I feel like leaving....I leave.

Here I don't have to put up with it.

Fiend,

No. I took advantage of opportunities and with a spirit of helping others, I improved my life.

Not all people I worked for were Jenks.

Now I'm retired and have a peaceful life, I am grateful to God for.

God might provide opportunities, but I did the work.

jerks...so much for spell check.

Et,

There are active court cases right now over some ICE enforcement tactics and the use of administrative warrants.

Until the courts fully sort out where the constitutional limits are, ICE will likely continue operating under the government's current interpretation of the law.

You raise valid constitutional concerns, but those issues are ultimately going to be decided through the courts.

Zed,

"You don't have to wait for that to have an opinion."

I do have an opinion, for whatever good it does.

I think it's sad how America effectively rolled out the red carpet for people to enter the country illegally.

The Biden administration encouraged it, and now many Democrats are angry about the consequences that followed.

We should have continued the wall Trump started during his first term and stayed the course on border enforcement.

By all means, come to America, but go through the proper legal channels.

And this has nothing to do with race. The Hispanic community includes many good, hardworking, God centered people.

So stop with "racist" label every time someone supports immigration enforcement.

There's my opinion.

Zed,

"The consequences are desrtuctive and much worse than the problem."

Maybe you should have thought about that first before supporting a party that was flying people in from other countries.

Snoofy,

Not feeling like a rambling conversation today.

I have screen door to work on.

Zed,

"Let me guess: It's unhinged."

It's probably going on 70 years old and falling apart.

My wife likes it so I have to repair it.

Snoofy,

"You can't think of a single harm that was caused by what you allege."

I never said that.

There are all sorts of terrible consequences as a result of lax border enforcement.

I've said before I'd support a fast track to citizenship for vetted and qualified immigrants to expedite those who have lived here and are good contributing members of society.

I hate to hear some of the stories. It's terrible.

It's unfortunate this problem has been mismanaged for so long.

But the answer isn't to ignore the problem now which is essentially all I'm seeing from anti-ICE protestors who just want to continue the status quo of letting people live here without proper documentation.

Democrats even want them to be able to vote. Ridiculous.

Zed,

"Maybe I should have thought about the chances of fascist oppression against EVERYONE because people like BILL wet their panties over an issue that was never more than a mid-level problem?"

How crass.

Reducing opinions to "wet their panties" suggests you have nothing meaningful to add beyond insults.

Zed,

Paranoia?

You'll have to explain that.

It doesn't apply to me, so do explain who you mean and what are they being paranoid about.

I see unrealistic fears, on both sides, being spread to manipulate society all the time.

You have to be more specific.

Zed,

"Americans are not meant to live this way."

I don't know how much exaggeration is in your last post.

Some is to be expected.

In any case, it's not like Trump will be in office like Castro or Putin year after year.

ICE has a legitimate mission.

Democrats didn't want to see how their open border policy was going to backfire.

Very unfortunate.

I understand why people would want to come here.

Snoofy,

"How did you personally come to believe that immigration is bad for America?"

You stepped over the line and lied.

I never said "immigration is bad for America."

Me and you are done on this thread.

Zed,

What do I exaggerate about?

Be specific.

Zed,

"Immigration was never a crisis."

It becomes one when border enforcement is lax for years while millions enter or remain illegally and we pretend the system can absorb it indefinitely.

It becomes one when sanctuary policies interfere with local and federal law enforcement.

It becomes one when cities begin struggling with overcrowded shelters, schools, overburdened healthcare systems and other financial stress.

It becomes one when people who followed the legal immigration process watch others just bypass it with little or no consequences.

It becomes one when criticism of immigration policy is automatically labeled racist just to shut down discussion.

And it becomes one when politicians use the issue for political advantage instead of creating realistic, enforceable solutions.

Zed,

Care to deny any of these are contributing to an immigration crisis?

Zed,

"You were encouraged to believe that it was existential."

No...you've been brainwashed into believing breaking the law is just fine and there should be no consequences.

Democratic leaders constantly use guilt, shame, and moral posturing to shape how people think about immigration.

And you fell for it.