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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, April 30, 2024

The Columbia University students who have been occupying Hamilton Hall now face expulsion, the university said in a statement Tuesday. The statement said that restoring order and safety is the administration's top priority, noting that the disciplinary actions are not political. "This is about responding to the actions of the protesters, not their cause," Chang said.

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Oh no! The consequences of their actions! Maybe they can form a pity-party with Palestinians to lament how unfair that sort of thing is.

Hopefully they can seek admission to the University Of Gaza City.

#1 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 04:13 PM | Reply

HEY HEY NETANYAHU!

HOW MANY KIDS DID YOU KILL TODAY?!

Doesn't rhyme but it is poetic.

#2 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 04:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

High five for the university.

Letting the inmates run the asylum never works.

Starve them out if they won't leave peacefully.

#3 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-04-30 04:36 PM | Reply

Doesn't rhyme but it is poetic.
#2 | Posted by truthhurts

How about "HOW MANY KIDS KILL TODAY, DID YOU?" for the second line and your pronounce it like Jackie Mason?

#4 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 04:44 PM | Reply

pronounce it like Jackie Mason

Sounds more like Yoda.

#5 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-30 04:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

High five for the university.
Letting the inmates run the asylum never works.
Starve them out if they won't leave peacefully.

#3 | POSTED BY TWINPAC

In the long sad history of jackbooted thuggery, jackbooted thugs have NEVER been on the right side of history.

#6 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 04:49 PM | Reply

#3 Israel is afraid of the consequences of Their Actions.

Bibi and the Likud are facing ICC charges for crimes against humanity.

You better be careful what you wish for. Justice is blind.

How is protesting War Crimes and Apartheid something these kids should be punished for?
You have lost your way, Censored is an Evil Bigot. Are you joining him now?

Or were you always a fellow traveler?



#7 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 04:52 PM | Reply

What you fail to understand my dear twin and my dear censored is that some people are willing to sacrifice for justice.

What is happening in Gaza is unjust and barbaric.

Passionate people are waking up to that atrocity.

The problem is not the students, it is not the schools, it is not the Biden administration, it is not the republican party, it is not the Palestinians.

It is Israel using genocidal tactics, bombing indiscriminately and using famine as a weapon of war.

There is ZERO justification for their actions.

EVERYONE (well every reasonable person-not the ------- antisemites) agrees Israel has a right to defend itself, what it is doing is not defending itself it is waging a war of aggression on women, the elderly and children.

Bombing hospitals, aid workers, schools, homes, is NOT defense nor is it defensible.

#8 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Starve them out if they won't leave peacefully.

#3 | POSTED BY TWINPAC

You talking about the students or the Palestinians?

#9 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 04:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Calling for the starvation of the protesters is appalling.

Do you celebrate when children die in Gaza? Does it Feel Good, knowing they are suffering?

Just high fives all around for Censored and Twin.

Disgusting People

This war in Israel is just bringing out the Cockroaches... Like a bright light turned on an infested tenement.

#10 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 05:00 PM | Reply

What you fail to understand my dear twin and my dear censored is that some people are willing to sacrifice for justice.
Let them sacrifice. It's not my future they're micturating away.

What is happening in Gaza is unjust and barbaric. Passionate people are waking up to that atrocity.
Like when they marched and protested on October 8th, because they didn't like the brand of paper towels the Jews were barbarically using to wipe up the blood of those 1,200 Israeli civilians?

The problem is not the students
You mean the trespassers?

[...]it is not the Palestinians.
You mean the 72% who were A-OK with the rapes and murders of 1,200 Israeli civilians and fully supported Hamas?
reuters.com

It is Israel using genocidal tactics, bombing indiscriminately and using famine as a weapon of war.
You mean the people defending themselves from an enemy that has sworn to murder every single Jew in Israel? I wonder what the word is for that. Think it starts with a "G" but apparently that word is used to refer to collateral damage nowadays, as opposed to when terrorists and their supporters set out to eliminate an entire religious group.

There is ZERO justification for their actions.
Good luck convincing them of that. As they defend themselves in the war that the Palestinians chose to start in the most heinous way imaginable.

[...]what it is doing is not defending itself it is waging a war of aggression on women, the elderly and children. Bombing hospitals, aid workers, schools, homes, is NOT defense nor is it defensible. #8 | Posted by truthhurts
If the Palestinians don't want Israel to bomb those areas, then maybe don't use them to wage combat.

#11 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 05:33 PM | Reply

#11: ---- OFF GENOCIDE LOVER. You speak only for yourself and you're an -------.

#12 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 05:40 PM | Reply

Calls for Ethnic Murders are the Mark of Pogrom.

Saying the Palestinians are all guilty because of an election several years ago is Nazi thinking. Censored is as Bigoted as any Actual Nazi.

He doesn't "love" Israel, this just a sick person who rides the bandwagon of Genocide and Apartheid because it feels Good to Hurt Others, even vicariously.

Sick Bitch,... lowest piece of --------- on the DR.

Engage with me on this website,..if you Dare... I know you won't..because Cruelty and Cowardice are Evil Twins.

---- off... there's no point in being civil or reasonable with people like this.

#13 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 05:51 PM | Reply

"You mean the people defending themselves from an enemy that has sworn to murder every single Jew in Israel?"

When you kill 30,000 civilians because they are your enemy, that's genocide.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 05:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

SNOOFY

Let's change that to "indiscriminately kill 30,000 people."

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-04-30 06:12 PM | Reply

Let's change that to "indiscriminately kill 30,000 people." #15 | Posted by Twinpac

Is that what Israel is doing? Seemed fairly discriminating to me, considering Hamas uses Palestinian civilian sites and humans as shields.

But hey, if the Palestinians don't care about the safety of their own civilians, who am I to argue?

#16 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 06:21 PM | Reply

Censored is there a number of Palestinian children killed by Israel bombs that would change your opinion? Like say 2,000,000 dead Palestinian children. Would you say at that point Israel went too far?

#17 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 06:27 PM | Reply

DISPROPORTIONATE RESPONSE is a War Crime.

If someone kills your brother do you have have right,nay Duty,.. to slaughter everyone he knows at Church or in the Neighborhood?

That's Reprisal Murder. The Nazis did it on the Eastern Front.

20 to 100 killed for every German death. Civilians, not battle deaths.

Israel is trying so hard to make this Ethnic when it's really about resistance to Ethnic Supremacists.

Co- Existence is the goal.

Likud projects their own Barbaric thinking onto others.

They assume their own motives are everyone's.

#18 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 06:29 PM | Reply

CENSORED

Israel could have at least evacuated the hospitals first. That's what I call indiscriminate.

Then there was the blocking of food and medical supplies to the millions of innocent civilians that were displaced because of Israel's bombing.

So, no, I have to disagree with you. In fact, because of the indiscrimination, I'm convinced that Israel took advantage of an opportunity to do something they've wanted to do for many years.

Wipe Gaza off the map.

#19 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-04-30 06:37 PM | Reply

#19 I'm glad to see you distancing yourself from that Psychopath.

He a sick ----. Like, fur real...

And not only on this issue.

#20 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 06:41 PM | Reply

Wipe Gaza off the map.

I recall saying they were going to do that right after the Hamas attack in October.

#21 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-30 06:45 PM | Reply

Seemed fairly discriminating to me, considering Hamas uses Palestinian civilian sites and humans as shields.
#16 | POSTED BY CENSORED

Hamas can only use humans as shields if the shields work.

Israel has shown human shields will just get blown up.

So no, it's not any better. Blowing up the human shields is no better than taking hostages and using them as human shields.

Arguably it's worse since one deliberately kills civilians in times of war instead of just terrorizing them in peacetime.

Neither is fit for a modern nation that respects human rights, which unlike Hamas, Israel is purported to be.

It's interesting to have to explain this to an ostensibly sane, genuine person.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 06:53 PM | Reply

Censored is there a number of Palestinian children killed by Israel bombs that would change your opinion? Like say 2,000,000 dead Palestinian children. Would you say at that point Israel went too far? #17 | Posted by truthhurts"

I've been asked this question before, I thought by you. Might have been one of the other pro-Hamasers here.

I'll give the same answer again: "the position of the United States Department of Defense (as well as the United Kingdom and some scholars) that attackers may discount or disregard collateral harm in determining proportionality." en.wikipedia.org

I'll add to that: "Military necessity permits a belligerent, subject to the laws of war, to apply any amount and kind of force to compel the complete submission of the enemy with the least possible expenditure of time, life, and money ... it permits the destruction of life, of armed enemies and other persons whose destruction is incidentally unavoidable [...]." United States v. List en.wikipedia.org

Israel could have at least evacuated the hospitals first. That's what I call indiscriminate. [...] #19 | Posted by Twinpac

Israel could have done all sorts of things. Unfortunately Hamas wasn't feeling cooperative. Because civilian deaths, Jewish and Palestinian, is what Hamas dearly desires. Sort of a one-trick pony, those guys.

October 13, 2023: "Hamas tells Gaza residents not to leave their homes after IDF warns civilians to evacuate" edition.cnn.com

If Israel has given up on the safety of their own hostages, it seems only rational to assume that Israel won't care too much for the safety of the Palestinians that Hamas is holding hostage.

#23 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 06:58 PM | Reply

Everyone paying any attention at all knew what was coming after 10/7/23.

Israel will destroy itself. Hamas knew what would happen. They counted on it.

Israel has been playing slow strangulation on the Palestinians for decades.

This just accelerated the pace.

Hamas knew the World would recoil in disgust at the Israeli response.

The Israeli's are creating the conditions that will destroy their enterprise unless they stop Slaughtering like Old Testament Zealots.

Hamas has their number. They know the Israeli's would rather slaughter them than be rational actors.

It was a Subtle play that's killing so Many for unclear gains in The possible future.

But Israel won't let them down.

Their Bloodlust is stronger than their Humanity.

Likud must go.

Israel without Likud is like Germany without National Socialism.

Just another normal country.

#24 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 07:01 PM | Reply

That is not the question I asked. I will repeat it, is there a number of Palestinian children killed by Israel bombs that would change your opinion? Like say 2,000,000 dead Palestinian children. Would you say at that point Israel went too far?

This is not about what Hamas does or doesn't do, or what the Palestinians do or don't do. This is not about the "rules" of war. This is about Israel's actions and what YOU personally believe is acceptable.

Answer the question.

#25 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 07:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They should Kent State those troublesome kids!

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-04-30 07:17 PM | Reply

There was a time when people argued Israel is better than the terrorists.

Now they argue killing civilians indiscriminately is permissible in war.

Killing civilians indiscriminately is what Hamas did on Oct 7.

If it's terrorism when Hamas does it, it's terrorism when Israel does it. And Israel does is thirty times more.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 07:23 PM | Reply

That is not the question I asked. [...] #25 | Posted by truthhurts

Oh yeah, it was you that asked me about this. drudge.com You got all huffy and stomped off last time.

So, I'm not a military-blowing-up-stuff scholar, so I'll defer to the Department of Defense: "[collateral damage] is not unlawful so long as it is not excessive in light of the overall military advantage anticipated from the attack." en.wikipedia.org

That seems well-though out to me, so I'll go with it. So the answer is, a big fat "it depends."

Just like when we offed 60,000 to 200,000 Japanese with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The purpose being to save about 500,000 American lives, with the incidental benefit of saving millions of Japanese, and with a high-side estimate of 32 million saved.

War sucks. Civilians should GTFO if they no longer want to be part of the war that they started and supported with a super-majority of 72%.

#28 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 07:36 PM | Reply

FWIW I reread the thread and see no evidence of me getting huffy and stomping off. Not sure why you would lie like that.

So, from what I can gather from your argument that there is no number of children that Israel can kill that would make you change your mind.

Following that, Israel could kill every single Palestinian-man, woman and children in Gaza, right?

I mean, assuming, Israel expresses a perception that they feel threatened by them.

You realize that that is genocide, right?

Am I missing something there?

BTW, couple of points:

1. There is no place for the Palistinians to GTFO to.
2. That vote was held, what 15 years ago? 18 years ago? Since 2/3 of the population is under 18, how can you honestly state that 72% support a war?

#29 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 07:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BTW, comparing a nation state to a terrorist organization is beyond obfuscation, just saying, not that I expect you could do better, but... do better.

#30 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 07:44 PM | Reply

"Just like when we offed 60,000 to 200,000 Japanese with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The purpose being to save about 500,000 American lives"

So you'll kill every Palestinian if that's what it takes, and that's not terrorism. Got it.

And what then, if Hamas still won't surrender?

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 07:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Supplemental:

How is Palestine supposed to surrender since they aren't a nation?

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 07:52 PM | Reply

Supplemental: why would any offer of surrender by the terrorists be accepted at face value?

What would it take for Israel to stop bombing Gaza? Israrl does have an answer for that question, and that is what makes it a terror campaign.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 07:55 PM | Reply

CENSORED IS SCUM.

He will obfuscate and hedge, but he wants them, All Dead.

He's too chicken hearted to even openly BE what it's obvious he is.

A proud killer of people based on Ethnic differences. Bigot,...Nazi.....

#34 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 07:57 PM | Reply

Would be killer.

I don't want to give him too much credit.

He's too Cowardly to ever risk anything.

#35 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 08:00 PM | Reply

FWIW I reread the thread and see no evidence of me getting huffy and stomping off. Not sure why you would lie like that.

You said: "Until you can provide a yes or no to that question any debate with you is pointless. #141 | Posted by truthhurts" and then stopped responding to me, from what I remember and my quick review shows.

So, from what I can gather from your argument that there is no number of children that Israel can kill that would make you change your mind.
I don't know how you got that from "it depends."

1. There is no place for the Palistinians to GTFO to.
That's a bummer. Guess that's good reason to avoid starting a war that one cannot win.

Since 2/3 of the population is under 18, how can you honestly state that 72% support a war? #29 | Posted by truthhurts
From the multiple articles that have been published since then showing multiple polls with Palestinians support staying around that number, one of which I cited in #11. Here you go again:
www.reuters.com

BTW, comparing a nation state to a terrorist organization is beyond obfuscation, just saying, not that I expect you could do better, but... do better. #30 | Posted by truthhurts
Yes, the poor, innocent Palestinians. Who have no agency in their own lives and live an area that magically produces an infinite supply of Hamas terrorists that they support by a super-majority.

So if there's no government there, the poor dears should have no problem banding together to eliminate that "handful" (as counted by one of the pro-Hamas commenters here on October 8th) of baddies and eliminate them, right?

#36 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 08:08 PM | Reply

"So if there's no government there, the poor dears should have no problem banding together to eliminate that "handful" (as counted by one of the pro-Hamas commenters here on October 8th) of baddies and eliminate them, right?"

They should have no problem?

Is there a historical precedent of people doing that while under invasion or are you just spit-balling.

Explain how they would go about doing that.

Explain why IDF hasn't been able to do it without killing 30,000 innocent bystanders and counting.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Censored is too chicken ---- to even admit what's so clear to everyone reading his crap.

Obfuscate all you want Genocide Boy.

Is it fooling yourself?

Ethnic Supremacist Bloodlust is Disgusting.

Just keep posting -------. Everyone here will see all too clearly what you deny...

Does it help?

#38 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-04-30 08:15 PM | Reply

Censored it is crystal clear that you support the genocide of the Palestinian people by Israel.

I'll say it again.

There is ZERO justification for the killing of thousands of children by indiscriminate bombing.

There is ZERO justification for the killing of thousands of children by targeted bombing.

There is ZERO justification for using famine as a weapon of war.

That's just the way I roll.

Israel's actions do NOT make them safer.

Israel's actions will create MORE "terrorists" than they could ever hope to kill, unless they are willing to kill all of the Palestinians, which is genocide.

All being run by an Israeli leader who is desperate to stay in power to avoid corruption charges.

#39 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 08:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

[...]#39 | Posted by truthhurts

You said a lot of stuff there, mischaracterizing, as is the way you roll.

I posted the US Department of Defense's position on collateral damage and from our prosecution of genocide at the Nuremberg Trials, and you use it to claim that I support genocide. Whatever makes you happy, I suppose.

One thing that won't make you happy is that the Israelis won't be letting those sweet, lovable Palestinians into their country in the foreseeable future. So maybe get used to that.

Hard to understand why the Palestinians wouldn't be welcome. They're such a jubilant people, dancing in the streets at the murder of our own civilians. So, yes, my heart bleeds for their suffering.

#40 | Posted by censored at 2024-04-30 08:38 PM | Reply

This definitely something old farts from the 60s protests and even middle-aged farts from the 80s protests would have thought to do:

Ron Filipkowski
@RonFilipkowski

They want food delivered. Apparently much has changed with protesters since the 1960s.
twitter.com

#41 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-30 08:50 PM | Reply

correction: would NOT have thought to do

#42 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-04-30 08:53 PM | Reply

Keep posting whatever justification you want censored.

Israel is bombing hospitals
Israel is bombing homes
Israel is bombing schools
Israel is bombing mosques
Israel is bombing areas THEY said were safe zones
Israel is bombing aid caravans
Israel is using 2,000 pound bombs in residential areas (the definition of indiscriminate)
Israel is starving children in Gaza

Those are facts.

You justify it however you want. That is what you have to do to sleep at night.

Israel is creating more terrorists than they are killing. Israel is assuring another 100 years of conflict.

America will sooner or later stop supporting Israel's actions. America is slow to act at times, but the longer this goes on the clearer it is that Israel is in the wrong for how they are conducting this war. The longer it goes on the clearer it becomes that Israel only wants to eliminate ALL of the Palestinians.

You justify killing children as "collateral damage" despite the way Israel is conducting the war.

You REFUSE to even address the use of famine and starvation as a weapon of war, which Israel CLEARLY is doing as evident by the fact that aid increased immediately 4 fold after Biden threatened Netanyahu with pulling support.

#43 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I posted the US Department of Defense's position on collateral damage and from our prosecution of genocide at the Nuremberg Trials"

Hamas isn't a nation; Israel can't even be at war with it by those standards.

Hamas leaders aren't even in Gaza, when is Israel going to actually start fighting the war against Hamas?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 10:09 PM | Reply

"I posted the US Department of Defense's position on collateral damage and from our prosecution of genocide at the Nuremberg Trials"

Post the Israeli position on collateral damage and persecution of genocide. That would actually be something worth discussing.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-04-30 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Israel is creating more terrorists than they are killing."

I can't explain why, but that does not seem to concern them one iota. It doesn't even seem to be on their radar. I've never heard the Pro-Israel contingent address that point.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-01 08:27 AM | Reply

Just like when we offed 60,000 to 200,000 Japanese with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The purpose being to save about 500,000 American lives, with the incidental benefit of saving millions of Japanese, and with a high-side estimate of 32 million saved.

#28 | POSTED BY CENSORED

This is a TOTAL lie.

The bombs accomplished nothing of the sort on their own.

The Japanese would have surrendered with or without the nuclear bombs being dropped: The other option was an invasion by the Russians and possible surrender to the Russians. Surrendering to the US was the only viable decision faced with that.

The Japanese had been reaching out to Stalin begging him to act as an intermediary with the US. But two days after the first bomb was dropped, Russia declared war on Japan and began an invasion. Russia wanted Japanese territory.

It wasn't until just after the Russians captured Japan's Sakhalin Island that Japan finally surrendered.

The Emperor literally said it when he announced their surrender to his ministers.

The bombs helped but without them, Japan would have surrendered just the same.

#47 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-05-01 11:14 AM | Reply

I've been saying that for years. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were War Crimes of the highest magnitude.

Totally unnecessary civilian Deaths.

But hey, they got to test the new Toys on people.

Truman is a war criminal.

#48 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-01 11:39 AM | Reply

This is a TOTAL lie. [...] The bombs helped but without them, Japan would have surrendered just the same. #47 | Posted by Sycophant

Yes, the Japanese were lining up with their Hello Kitty backpacks and smiles to welcome our troops with open arms. After they massacred millions and fear to this day the retribution awaiting them at the hands of China.

Must be nice sitting back and imagining what a cakewalk invading the Japanese home islands would have been while women and children were being trained to fight to the death to protect their god-emperor.

Estimated dead/wounded
Total to Defeat Japan (July 1945 - February 1947)
Dead and Missing 267,000
Evacuated Wounded 596,000
Total 863,000
en.wikipedia.org

If only we could have sacrificed a few hundred thousand of our own people to assuage the guilt of future generations who at this very moment are trying to figure out exactly how much love they have to spread amongst terrorists before they are beheaded.

#49 | Posted by censored at 2024-05-01 02:38 PM | Reply

The retreat to absurdism is a good way to not get taken seriously.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-01 02:47 PM | Reply

I take Miscreants of his stature seriously. They're dangerous.

As a thinker? Get the -------------. He's a Moron.

#51 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-01 03:23 PM | Reply

they can send them to an extension campus instead.

Gaza State University has some openings.

Only idiot children who would have any problems would be lgbt etc

but so what ? They're the ones chanting " we are HAMAS".

well...are you are aren't you ?

--spoiled idiot children.

#52 | Posted by shrimptacodan at 2024-05-01 05:56 PM | Reply

Starve them out if they won't leave peacefully.
#3 | POSTED BY TWINPAC
You talking about the students or the Palestinians?
#9 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-04-30 04:56 PM

Neither Israel nor Columbia University use professional negotiators or fair trials before sentencing.

#53 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-05-01 06:22 PM | Reply

The question I wrestle with on this... of the civilians being killed, how many of them were dancing in the street and burning American flags on 9/11/2001. The children being killed now, are they the kids of those kids, and would they do any differently? ...They're still kids though.

The timeline of this issue, the surrounding politics and religious pressures add so much nuance to this, it's too easy to frame any one side as the Demon or the Saint. Reality is there is never such a clean line.

#54 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-05-02 09:50 AM | Reply

"The question I wrestle with on this... of the civilians being killed, how many of them were dancing in the street and burning American flags on 9/11/2001."

Um...

You think it's okay to kill people for dancing in the streets when Americans die?

Dude.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 09:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

of course that's what you'd take out of it.

#56 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-05-02 10:50 AM | Reply

"of course that's what you'd take out of it."

Next time you post, why don't you save him the trouble and tell him what you expect him to take out of it?

#57 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2024-05-02 11:02 AM | Reply

"The question I wrestle with on this... of the civilians being killed, how many of them were dancing in the street and burning American flags on 9/11/2001"

On the other side of the coin, After 9-11, Iranians held candlelight vigils across their country. A few months later, America labeled them as part of the "Axis of Evil"

#58 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2024-05-02 11:10 AM | Reply

A degree from columbia will be worth less than no degree at all soon. It will be a sure sign that you're a bitch with no guiding morals.

A 200 year old school's reputation nuked by right wing brain rot administrators.

#59 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2024-05-02 11:23 AM | Reply

of course that's what you'd take out of it.
#56 | POSTED BY KWRX25

What else is there to take out of it?
???

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In the long sad history of jackbooted thuggery, jackbooted thugs have NEVER been on the right side of history.
#6 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Drop the canned buzzwords.

Its not jackboot thuggery to respond appropriately.

#61 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:13 PM | Reply

How is protesting War Crimes and Apartheid something these kids should be punished for?

You have to be intentionally obtuse to think this is what's going on.

#62 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:14 PM | Reply

Looks like everyone is obtuse except for you, as usual.

Gonna tell us what they're protesting, or just keep shadow boxing?

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 12:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Drop the canned buzzwords.

That's all that comes from some posters here.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2024-05-02 12:21 PM | Reply

You mean the people defending themselves from an enemy that has sworn to murder every single Jew in Israel

How about the modern military who shoots kids for throwing rocks at checkpoints and soldiers in body armor?

Or the people who have systematically given the finger to the world as they settled large tracts of lands that aren't theirs because sky daddy told them to and fought like hell to prevent being evicted?

Or who use armored bulldozers to destroy neighborhoods, even if it means running over members of NGOs who are there?

Neither side is clean on this. No where close.

Acting as if Israel just sits their peacefully and hasn't earned any of the hatred shown to it is asinine.

#65 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:25 PM | Reply

The question I wrestle with on this... of the civilians being killed, how many of them were dancing in the street and burning American flags on 9/11/2001. The children being killed now, are they the kids of those kids, and would they do any differently? ...They're still kids though.
-

#54 | POSTED BY KWRX25

Since most of them were not even born yet, I'd say very few.

The average age of a Palestinian is 19.6 years old. About 65% of the population wasn't even born before 9/11/2001.

For perspective, the average age in the US is 38.5.

#66 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-05-02 12:26 PM | Reply

Looks like everyone is obtuse except for you, as usual.

Throws rock *yelp* hits mongrel.

Being disingenuous and making it sound like the universities are squelching the protests isn't a winning argument.

#67 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:26 PM | Reply

"Being disingenuous and making it sound like the universities are squelching the protests"

The universities are squelching protests.
You're telling us they are not?

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 12:32 PM | Reply

#66 so that speaks right to my point, we are dealing with the cumulative history and generations raised to hate each other from the womb... but we are trying to layer a US centric oppressed and oppressor narrative on top of it and go protest or the 'good' guy.

That's not going to work here.

#69 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-05-02 12:55 PM | Reply

The universities are squelching protests.
You're telling us they are not?

#68 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You're wandering into areas of poor logic and disingenuous idiocy usually reserved for MAGA.

Their "logic" goes like this: Trump is being prosecuted. Trump is Biden's political rival. Trump is being prosecuted for being Biden's political rival.

Your "logic" goes similarly: groups of university students are being arrested. Groups of university students are protesting. Groups of university students are being arrested for protesting.

Both are ---- logic that willfully ignores the criminal elements that are actually the root cause of LEO action.

The reason they're cosplaying IMO is because they seem totally, like, angry that consequences are a thing. All my life, people have been arrested while pushing the envelope while protesting. Everything from G8 summits to racial injustice to The Iraq War. The unjust arrests were always easy to discern because there were no later charges or they were dropped without prompting.

You likely won't see this here. At the very least, they'll be expelled. Likely even charged. And the rationale will not say "for protesting."

#70 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:58 PM | Reply

#69 bingo.

#71 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 12:58 PM | Reply

"Both are ---- logic that willfully ignores the criminal elements that are actually the root cause of LEO action."

Again,
For the third time:
Put it in the context of anti Apartheid campus protests.

LEO action is predicated on the University declaring the students are engaged in an unlawful protest. That is the root cause of police involvement. It's because the university can't figure out what to do, so they punt to the cops.

To your point, Violent criminal action or targeted individuals, or blocking Jews but not others, crosses a line that mere occupation of a building does not.

Finally, as we saw in the 2020 Civil Rights protests, violence is often instigated by police (here, counter-protesters), to justify the need for police to "restore order."

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 01:20 PM | Reply

"You likely won't see this here."

Of course not-- because their target are the Zionists.

Who else could coerce an entire room full of politicians from both sides of the aisle who hate each other's guts to get together and push through an egregious assault on the first amendment (antisemitism Awareness act) with barely a peep of debate?

What, do you need special sunglasses in order to see this?

#73 | Posted by pumpkinhead at 2024-05-02 01:22 PM | Reply

Put it in the context of anti Apartheid campus protests

There's no need to out it in context of if anything other than the context it's already in.

The fact you feel the need to do so should tell you something.

BTW destroying property and refusing to leave said destroyed property is an unlawful protest. Not sure how you claim otherwise.

#74 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 01:29 PM | Reply

"There's no need to out it in context of if anything other than the context it's already in.
The fact you feel the need to do so should tell you something."

Earlier you compared them to civil rights protesters

I'm doing the same thing.

Now you balk, from what you just did.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 01:30 PM | Reply

Comparison == context change.

I was comparing the conduct and how it suggests, to me, the difference in what it means to the participants.

You're trying to change what it's fundamentally about.

More poor logic.

#76 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 01:42 PM | Reply

In fact, their stated reasons for protesting are so critical to our interpretation of the events any attempt to change context renders the interpretation meaningless.

#77 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 01:43 PM | Reply

In fact, their stated reasons for protesting are so critical to our interpretation of the events any attempt to change context renders the interpretation meaningless.

#77 | POSTED BY JPW

I am not sure what this whole thread is about, but point of fact if there are 500 protestors there are likely 500 different reasons for why they are protesting.

There are also stated goals by protest organizers (if any), there are fringe opinions of some protestors, there are bad faith actors infiltrating the protest to delegitimize the protests, there are also anti-semites that are using the protests.

Just saying, since context does matter.

#78 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 01:47 PM | Reply

I am of the strong personal opinion that a strong and healthy democracy should encourage passionate young adults to participate in the political process including through mass protests and should definitively NOT be destroying their lives over participation in protests.

I also firmly believe young adults do stupid things.

I also also firmly believe that young adults will ALWAYS have opinions that old farts like us don't understand.

I also also aslo firmly believe that the future belongs to these young adults and we should respect and foster their passion.

But, what do I know.

#79 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 01:50 PM | Reply

Doesn't change the fact that imagine this is another protest about a different thing at a different time' isn't a very good argument.

#80 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 01:52 PM | Reply

JPW. From your comments it sounds like you just don't have any awareness of the sit-ins and building takeovers that students did to fight Apartheid.

But, it also sounds like you think the universities were probably wrong to divest, in response to student uprisings.

Am I close?

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 01:57 PM | Reply

Doesn't change the fact that imagine this is another protest about a different thing at a different time' isn't a very good argument.

#80 | POSTED BY JPW

Actually it is a great argument.

The anti-apartheid protests of the 1980s seem to be a direct inspiration for the current protests-sit ins on college campuses to push the schools from supporting an apartheid state-I think the parallels are obvious.

Anyone who denies the parallels between South Africa and Israel isn't worth debating.

So, if the protests are similar what about the response?

In the 1980s the colleges listened and responded positively to the protestors and often acquiesced to their demands.

Today, the colleges are responding with denying the demands out of hand and bringing in the police to violently (in many cases) disrupt and disband the protests.

#82 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 01:59 PM | Reply

FWIW Mandela himself said the college campus protests helped in ending Apartheid.

www.duckofminerva.com

Mandela on the Anti-Apartheid Movement

Mandela, for his part, praised anti-apartheid protesters for the role they played when he got out of prison. Six months after his release, Mandela toured eight U.S. cities and gave a series of speeches in which he thanked activists for their support and credited them with helping cause the South African government to yield:

It is clear beyond any reasonable doubt that the unbanning our organization came as a result of the pressures exerted upon the apartheid regime by yourselves.

#83 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:03 PM | Reply

"I was comparing the conduct and how it suggests, to me, the difference in what it means to the participants."

If that's your angle, compare the administration conduct while you're at it.

Where is the dialogue? Why do the cops have to get involved?

Leadership that gets engaged is a completely different animal from leadership that calls the cops when the going gets tough.

You see these University Presidents testify before Congress a few months ago. They looked like fools. Now they look like fools who hide behind the police.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:03 PM | Reply

People are getting blown to pieces,starved, aid workers being targeted for death. Millions of people displaced and left with nothing.

A modern military force with the latest weapons is killing a trapped population of civilians in an open air prison.

The college kids are against the colleges they attend, profiting financially from this. They are against being told that they are dupes of "outside Agitators" for having a Concience about the horrors bring done with American assistance and resources.

They have moral clarity. That seems to be something that must be stopped at any cost.

Or the Donors might shut off... the Cash.

You can't make this ---- up, have we really become this Craven as a people?

Is everything for sale?

Is Money really Everything?

#85 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-02 02:07 PM | Reply

Where is the dialogue?
- snoofy

Dialog? Why do they have a right to dialogue?

They gave them ample time to pack up.

They can still protest.

But just can't block paying customers from their classes.

Why do the cops have to get involved?
- snoofy

Because they were violating students freedom of movement.

#86 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-02 02:09 PM | Reply

#81 you're still pushing that irrelevancy. At least you're doing a Gish Gallop, so there's that.

No, I'm not that familiar with the anti-Apartheid sit ins. Doesn't make them relevant here.

Divestment issue, no, I'm not against it. I'm not even against protesting Israeli brutalization of the Palestinians.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:10 PM | Reply

Today, the colleges are responding with denying the demands out of hand and bringing in the police to violently (in many cases) disrupt and disband the protests.
#82 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Again with the dishonest insistence it's about the protests.

It's a terrible argument. Actions of admins then are irrelevant to actions of admins now. If admins today don't want to tolerate criminal behavior during the protests, they're under zero obligation to simply because of unrelated protests 40-50 years ago.

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:13 PM | Reply

If that's your angle, compare the administration conduct while you're at it.

Why? They're under zero obligation to humor these kids once property is destroyed and other students are harassed or assaulted.

That's an insanely naive, entitled and, dare I say, privileged viewpoint.

#89 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:14 PM | Reply

"No, I'm not that familiar with the anti-Apartheid sit ins. Doesn't make them relevant here."

If you don't know, you're in no position to say. Though you might take a step back and wonder why it wasn't part of your liberal arts education.

The relevancy is that it worked before, against a fairly comparable human rights issue.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:16 PM | Reply

It's a terrible argument. Actions of admins then are irrelevant to actions of admins now. If admins today don't want to tolerate criminal behavior during the protests, they're under zero obligation to simply because of unrelated protests 40-50 years ago.

#88 | POSTED BY JPW

Actually, it's the ONLY argument. What is the best policy to resolve the protests? That IS it, right? How best to end the protests?

Or is it about controlling the populace, er students?

#91 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:16 PM | Reply

"Why? They're under zero obligation to humor these kids once property is destroyed and other students are harassed or assaulted."

Oh get real. You'd humor your own kids.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:18 PM | Reply

"If admins today don't want to tolerate criminal behavior during the protests, they're under zero obligation to simply because of unrelated protests 40-50 years ago."

The unwillingness to have a conversation that the students are desperately trying to have is a failure of the administration.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:22 PM | Reply

If that's your angle, compare the administration conduct while you're at it.
Why? They're under zero obligation to humor these kids once property is destroyed and other students are harassed or assaulted.
That's an insanely naive, entitled and, dare I say, privileged viewpoint.

#89 | POSTED BY JPW

You do realize that employing your thought process it is INCREDIBLY easy to delegitimize any and all protests-just have a few bad actors go in break a couple of window, shout JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US! and leave a few anti-semitic signs lying around and voila justification to sweep up all of these protestors.

In that case, you might as well go with the red state laws outlawing protesting at all or holding the organizers responsible for every single act by every single participant. That way at least you're not being a hypocrite about free speech.

#94 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:23 PM | Reply

If you don't know, you're in no position to say

Nonsense.

This is a here and now, stand alone event. It's not a continuation of anything related to South Africa.

That it might be a model for these students is trivia, nothing more as admin responses to the current events isn't bound by past admin responses.

As for my liberal arts education, I was more focused on history prior to my birth. The rest was hard sciences and math and, dare I say, how to actually critically think.

#95 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:24 PM | Reply

It is actually about Donors and endowments. The big donors want this ---- stopped. Period. They call the shots apparently.

In the 1980s there was no Citizens United, the weight of Cash on everything was less. Administrators had more freedom of action to do different things because they weren't completely compromised by the financial aspect of education.

Oligarchy has little tolerance for uppity kids or anything like it.

The laws are created in service of Capital not People.

#96 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-05-02 02:25 PM | Reply

You do realize that employing your thought process it is INCREDIBLY easy to delegitimize any and all protests-just have a few bad actors go in break a couple of window, shout JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US! and leave a few anti-semitic signs lying around and voila justification to sweep up all of these protestors.

You guys are MAGA level bad at this lol

No, that's not where my position necessarily leads no matter what reducto ad absurdum fallacy you want to create says.

If there's 1000 kids protesting on the campus green/center/whatever, leaving non participants be, not destroying stuff ... they should 100% be left alone if police are brought in to clear out the group who have destroyed property and gone out of their way to affect non participant's lives. It's absurd to even say it and I hope you don't have a straight face while doing so.

#97 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:29 PM | Reply

That way at least you're not being a hypocrite about free speech.

#94 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Criminal actions are not free speech.

At least understand the topic before sounding off FFS.

#98 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:29 PM | Reply

"Criminal actions are not free speech."

Hiding behind the law is a ----- move.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:32 PM | Reply

You do realize that bad faith actors use criminal actions to delegitimize protests, right?

In fact, I am of the opinion that any and all criminal actions during a protest should be considered to have been committed by an outside bad faith actor until proven otherwise.

#100 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:32 PM | Reply

Hiding behind the law is a ----- move.

#99 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Lol

Just ... lol

#101 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:35 PM | Reply

"No, that's not where my position necessarily leads no matter what reducto ad absurdum fallacy you want to create says."

There are whole industries and organizations set up to delegitimize protests.

#102 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:35 PM | Reply

You do realize that bad faith actors use criminal actions to delegitimize protests, right?

Duh.

The trick is to be smart enough to hold more than a single black and white idea in your head.

BTW unless they're being forced into the building or encampments and are being prevented from leaving, your argument isn't applicable.

#103 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:36 PM | Reply

www.washingtonpost.com

Umbrella Man' went viral breaking windows at a protest. He was a white supremacist trying to spark violence, police say.

#104 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:36 PM | Reply

There are whole industries and organizations set up to delegitimize protests.

#102 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

So?

I don't see entire protests as someone else wants me to.

Why do you think I'm arguing with you two?

#105 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:37 PM | Reply

Truth, what's with the canned nonsense? You're not really arguing anything ...

#106 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:38 PM | Reply

You are acting like destruction of property is automatic justification to break up protests.

I am pointing out how easy it is to create a little disturbance that justifies breaking up protests.

then, voila, no protests.

If you can't see the concerted efforts by the powers that be to delegitimizing protests, especially left wing protests, well that is on you.

#107 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:38 PM | Reply

"The trick is to be smart enough to hold more than a single black and white idea in your head."

Holler back when you think the administration needs to learn that trick, because upstream you said they gave no obligation to humor the kids once there's the slightest bit of property damage.

Like the kids just need to be humored. Like that's what this is about.

So on a serious note, why not humor them by divestiture if that's really all it takes?

Is it because they didn't ask nice enough?

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:43 PM | Reply

I don't see entire protests as someone else wants me to.
Why do you think I'm arguing with you two?

#105 | POSTED BY JPW A

You're arguing, apparently, that the committing of some crimes justifies the breaking up of protests.

If I am incorrect, please restate your position.

I am pointing out that is a REALLY bad idea given how easy it is to effectively outlaw protests-WHICH IS HAPPENING.

Are you aware of the Fl, La, Texas laws that the SC refused to hear a case about where a protest organizer was held personally liable for a person at the protest who through a rock and hit a cop in the face. The organizer had no knowledge of who that person was, did not tell him to do it, the person who through the rock said he didn't intend to hit anyone, yet the protest organizer is on the hook for millions (can't remember the details of the amount he was liable for).

They were protesting the death of a black man at the hands of a white cop.

That type of enforcement has an incredibly chilling effect on protests.

#109 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:44 PM | Reply

You're desperately trying to support your conclusion with info that doesn't quite fit.

We're not talking about a small group vandalizing property in the vicinity of a lawful protest being used to justify shutting it all down.

We're talking about the property destruction ring central to the unlawful protest.

Not a single kid in that building can claim to be a peaceful, lawful protestor just as J6 defendants who didn't break the glass but still entered through the open doors deserve to be held accountable for that action as well.

#110 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:44 PM | Reply

Holler back when you think the administration needs to learn that trick, because upstream you said they gave no obligation to humor the kids once there's the slightest bit of property damage.

Holler back when you can accurate paraphrase my position and argue without employing some form of logical fallacy.

#111 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:45 PM | Reply

Hiding behind the law is a ----- move.
#99 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
Lol
Just ... lol
#101 | POSTED BY JPW

Yes I do LOL at how badly the administration has handled this. It's absolutely pathetic. They have lost control of the narrative, and now they are letting extrinsic counter-protesters engage where the university itself won't.

This is what failure of leadership looks like. You can't see that?

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:45 PM | Reply

Why aren't you critical of Columbia refusing to engage with the protestors?

#113 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:49 PM | Reply

You're arguing, apparently, that the committing of some crimes justifies the breaking up of protests.

Im not restating something I've stated several times already. Go back and reread this thread or the other one in the topic if you need to.

Are you aware of the ...

Yes. I thought I posted a thread on it ...

#114 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 02:50 PM | Reply

"We're talking about the property destruction being central to the unlawful protest."

Which protests are you referring to? What you're describing sounds like what happens when a sports team wins or loses the championship, and nobody really thinks it amounts to much, after the dust has settled.

You seem to have found a way to achieve righteous indignation over it, though.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-02 02:52 PM | Reply

All things considered, when you are ------- (the sexual predator, fraud and criminal)'s side of an issue, you're on the wrong side.

#116 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-02 02:54 PM | Reply

This is what failure of leadership looks like. You can't see that?

#112 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I wouldn't want to associate with people chanting "from the river to the sea" or "we are Hamas" either.

#117 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 03:02 PM | Reply

Why aren't you critical of Columbia refusing to engage with the protestors?

#113 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

See above.

#118 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-02 03:03 PM | Reply

I wouldn't want to associate with people chanting "from the river to the sea" or "we are Hamas" either.
#117 | POSTED BY JPW

Noone ever mistook you for a leader.

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-03 02:49 PM | Reply

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