Tuesday, October 29, 2024

Musk Warns of Necessary Economic Collapse if Trump Elected

Elon Musk has offered a sobering preview of Donald Trump's economic plan for America if he is re-elected, revealing that a period of intentional "temporary hardship" is on the horizon for American households.

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FTA:

Rather than cautioning against it, Musk described this hardship as necessary and inevitable, supporting Trump's blueprint for restructuring the economy by slashing government programs. Musk's remarks, shared in a Telephone Town Hall organized by his America PAC, indicate that he and Trump see economic pain to average Americans as a necessary cost of their policy goals.

"We have to reduce spending to live within our means. And that necessarily involves some temporary hardship, but it will ensure long-term prosperity," Musk stated in the call, fully endorsing the strain Trump's policies would place on Americans. Musk's words make it clear that the disruption is not an unintended side effect but an accepted"if not desired"outcome.

#1 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-29 07:51 PM

"... he and Trump see economic pain to average Americans as a necessary cost of their policy goals."

The 'economic collapse' that Leon is concerned about is his own; he's depending on Trump's tax cuts to go mostly to his class, not to the middle class.

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2024-10-29 07:55 PM

What could possibly go wrong?:

FTA: Trump has said he would appoint Musk to lead a new "Department of Government Efficiency," an agency that Musk would use to "trim the fat" from government operations and, presumably, enact sweeping cuts to public programs. The department, referred to by the acronym DOGE is a nod to Musk's favored meme cryptocurrency.

Also:

BREAKING: RFK Jr. says Donald Trump has promised him "control of the public health agencies."

RFK Jr. says "Trump has promised me ... control of the public health agencies, which are HHS and its sub-agencies, CDC, FDA, NIH, and a few others."

x.com

#3 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-29 07:56 PM

Ah, the Brainworm in Charge of Public Health.

Very Trump-like.

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2024-10-29 07:59 PM

KAMALA is killing this Capitol speech, btw.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2024-10-29 08:00 PM

Elon Musk Makes Shocking Confession on His Plans After Trump Victory
www.yahoo.com

... Elon Musk admitted that he knows that Donald Trump's policies would crash the economy if he's elected president, but thinks that the price is worth it.

The tech CEO and social media mogul on Monday evening replied to a post on X from right-wing influencer FischerKing64, who posted about how Trump's plans for mass deportations of immigrants combined with Musk's plans as a White House adviser to cut federal spending would initially crash the economy, before creating a "sounder footing."

Musk replied, "Sounds about right." ...


OK, my first question is along the lines of ...

If Mr Musk seems to admit that mass deportations would crash the economy that seems to be so dependent upon immigrant labor, what is Mr Musk's plan forward?

Has he even thought that far ahead?


#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-29 08:01 PM

Here's what Elon's co-chair of the prospective Trump administration's "Department of Government Efficiency" had to say about America's future at Trump's MSG rally on Sunday:

Cantor Fitzgerald chairman and CEO Howard Lutnick came out and spoke of how his firm was decimated on September 11 when a plane struck just below their offices in the World Trade Center, how they'd given lots of money to the families, and then he finally provided a clear answer to that nine-year-old question: When, exactly, was America great?

The Gilded Age.

The crowd was a bit miffed when Lutnick extolled the virtues of the "turn-of-the-century" economy, and they didn't rouse much when he explained he was referring to 1900. They perked up a bit when he explained this meant "no income tax," though it was more of a smattering of cheers.

"All we had was tariffs!" he explained, probably expecting more of a roar, "and we had so much money that we had the greatest businessmen of America get together to try to figure out how to spend it!" Near-silence. "That's who we were then."

And there it was. We should return to the days when all the money flowed into a handful of pockets, when the Carnegies and Rockefellers got to make all the rules, and the way that billionaires like Lutnick will seek to do that is by getting Trump in there to abolish the income tax--as if any of them pay their fair share as it is. This was Reaganomics on anarcho-capitalist steroids, and the fairly frosty reception it got in the arena was a reminder of how much more effective Trump's economic populism has been for Republicans, even if he ended up signing the same old tax-cut-for-rich-people once elected.

www.publicnotice.co

Yep, can't wait until they MAGA like that again!

#7 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-29 09:37 PM

@#7 ... And there it was. We should return to the days when all the money flowed into a handful of pockets, when the Carnegies and Rockefellers got to make all the rules ...

Woof.

With supporters like that, does a candidate really need contrarians?


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-29 09:46 PM

Gal has this story up with Comments....

drudge.com

#9 | Posted by Corky at 2024-10-29 10:13 PM

I did NAZI is coming that he'd actually saying that in public.

His security clearance needs to be reviewed after reports of regular calls with Putin since 2022.

BTW, Musk had his own MAGA hat made for the hatefest at MSG with the font preferred by Hitler's NAZI.

US Election 2024: Dark gothic,' Elon Musk wears hat with Fraktur' font? Know its Nazi connection

Donald Trump denied being a Nazi at a rally, addressing accusations of authoritarianism. Elon Musk attended the event wearing a controversial hat featuring a font linked to Nazi propaganda, which sparked reactions online.

#10 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-10-29 11:02 PM

He needs to be arrested and charges under the Logan Act

"Logan Act, legislation enacted by the United States Congress (1799) that forbids private citizens from engaging in unauthorized correspondence with foreign governments. As amended, the act reads:"

www.bing.com
Former Hillsborough County State Attorney Andrew Warren suggested that even though the meeting could have been "possibly illegal," it is unlikely the Logan Act will be used against the former president.

"On foreign policy, it's critical that America speaks with one voice," Warren told Newsweek. "The Logan Act prohibits individuals taking diplomacy into their own hands or undermining the government's official policy. Only two people have ever been charged for Logan Act violations, and Trump won't be the third but Trump using his camaraderie with U.S. adversaries like Orbn to weaken our foreign policy is possibly illegal and certainly un-American."

It is unclear what precisely the pair discussed during their meeting at Mar-a-Lago.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-29 11:30 PM

If Trump wins next week and Republicans keep the House and take back the Senate, I expect the first hundred days of Trump's presidency to be a shock and awe take down of our current system of government. The groundwork has been laid down by the SC granting Trump immunity, and the plans via Project 2025 are in place. They are going to deconstruct the administrative state as Bannon once predicted they would. They know they will have to act quickly and without hesitation, and I believe they will. Chaos and confusion will ensue as they begin to undo the New Deal and strip away the social safety net. If there is any media bold enough to honestly report what is happening, they will be dealt with by buying out the owners and/or arresting the reporters. If average citizes take to the streets to protest, Trump will call out the National Guard/military to put those protests down. They have Orban's blueprint to follow, and they will follow it. See for yourself--creating Soros as the enemy, "Hungary is for Hungarians," building a fence, criminalizing migrants, consolidating the media under state control, creating a new constitution, instituting Christian nationism, eliminating LGBTQ rights, the list goes on:

Who is Viktor Orban, Hungarian PM with 14-year grip on power?
www.bbc.com

What has changed in Hungary during Orban's 12-year rule
www.reuters.com

The Secrets to Viktor Orban's Success
foreignpolicy.com

#12 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-29 11:42 PM

This is a good article on the Orban playbook Trump and Republicans plan to follow:


The Orbanisation of America: Hungary's lessons for Donald Trump

Viktor Orban has seized control of nearly all the levers of power in Hungary since he became prime minister in 2010, effectively turning the country into an electoral autocracy.

Republicans in the US have noticed Orban's success. Orban's Fidesz party and the Republicans have lately strengthened their links significantly; Republicans appear to have learned from the former's march through Hungarian institutions.

In the four years since President Donald Trump left office, veterans of his administration have thought hard about how to make a new administration more effective than the last. Many believe that a similar seizure of control of the instruments of US governance is necessary.

If Trump wins the presidency, Republicans will likely adapt many of Orban's techniques to the US context to end what they view as liberal control of the "administrative state" and civil society.

ecfr.eu

#13 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-29 11:52 PM

OK, don't get me started on PM Orban.

He is the leader of the Country that currently holds the six-month rotating presidency of the EU.

And there is some, I'll say, dismay among the other Countries of the EU. ...

Orban Courts EU Ire by Endorsing Disputed Georgia Election Vote
www.bnnbloomberg.ca

... Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban engineered another diplomatic divide with his European Union counterparts, pointedly siding with Georgia's ruling party as the winner of parliamentary elections.

Orban, whose country holds the EU's rotating presidency, told Prime Minister Irakli Kobakhidze during a visit to Georgia on Tuesday that he should ignore complaints about the election from the 27-nation bloc, and said the vote was free and democratic.

"European politics has its handbook, it is worth knowing: when liberal parties win, there is democracy, when conservatives win, there is not," Orban told a joint news conference in the capital, Tbilisi. "Because the conservatives won, there will be debates, and they are not to be taken seriously."

Prior to Orban's departure for Georgia, the EU's top diplomat Josep Borrell told Spanish public radio RNE that the rotating presidency conferred no authority in foreign policy on the Hungarian premier. A joint statement signed by ministers from 13 EU countries on Monday, including Germany, France, Poland and the Netherlands, said Orban doesn't speak for the bloc.

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson told the TT news agency that Orban "possibly speaks for Russia, but he does not speak for the rest of us."

The Hungarian leader has a history of provoking fellow EU leaders with foreign visits since the start of his country's six-month presidency, even as he often insists he's not representing the bloc. He sparked outrage days into the term in July by meeting with President Vladimir Putin in Moscow and Chinese leader Xi Jinping in Beijing as part of a self-styled "peace mission." ...



#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-29 11:57 PM

OMG, Lamp, it just struck me tonight how meticulously over a period of years the Republican party has been planning their Orban style take over of the country. It's all in the article I linked to in #5. The Federalist Society and the Heritage Society play a big role in behind the scenes machinations. Trump is a necessary part of the plan, but he is only one part of it. That's where JD Vance comes in:

"I think Orban made smart decisions that we could learn from in the US." " Republican vice-presidential candidate J.D. Vance, CBS Face the Nation, June 2024.

And, of course, the SC had a central role to play in this plan, and they have played it:


One important distinction between the US and Hungary is that the American president faces an independent legislature and a strong judiciary. Even if the president's party controls Congress, he does not exercise anything approaching parliamentary control of the legislature, nor is he is likely to have a "constitutional majority", which in the US requires not only two-thirds control of Congress, but also control of three-quarters of the state legislatures.

The US route to electoral autocracy therefore means, in the first instance, creating a powerful executive that can overwhelm the other branches. Since at least the Reagan administration, various Republican thinkers have been promoting unitary executive theory. According to proponents of this idea, the power of the presidency has been unconstitutionally hobbled by limits placed by the courts, Congress, and the civil service rules on the president's ability to control the executive branch. As a result, the president no longer controls his own branch of government and cannot implement the mandate the voters have given him. The unitary executive project therefore is to restore control of the executive branch to the president.

The issue of whether unitary executive theory conforms with the US constitution is a very controversial one, but the likely effects of its implementation on governance in the US are fairly clear. Over recent decades, power in Washington has flowed increasingly to the executive branch. A divided and understaffed Congress struggles to exercise its oversight function effectively over the vast executive branch. The courts are similarly too slow and lacking in administrative capacity to constrain the president on most issues. The 2024 Supreme Court decision in Trump v the United States, which asserted that the president enjoys near-total immunity in his official acts, has given the president yet more power relative to Congress and the courts.

ecfr.eu

#15 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-30 12:36 AM

Now that I am getting a glimpse of the big picture, it's quite scary. It's not hyperbole to say that if Trump gets elected, and espeically if Republicans take the House and Senate, democracy as we know it is over. And it won't be just Donald Trump's doing. The whole Republican party apparatus will be equally responsible as they are the ones who laid the groundwork and drew up the 2025 playbook that Trump will follow:

Kevin Roberts, the president of The Heritage Foundation and the man behind Project 2025, had already in 2022 spoken of the country not only as a model of conservative statecraft, but as the model. In May 2024, Heritage even welcomed Orban for a closed-door lecture in Washington, DC.

The now infamous Heritage Foundation-led Project 2025, directed by Paul Dans, the former head of Trump's White House Personnel Office, contains at its heart the idea that liberal control of the "administrative state" and civil society have long stymied conservative governance and must be overcome for Trump to govern effectively. It avows that the primary effort of a second Trump administration will be to "dismantle the administrative state and return self-governance to the American people."

To ensure more loyal political appointees, Heritage's Project 2025 has created a database of some 20,000 pre-vetted potential officials. The Trump campaign has strongly repudiated Project 2025, but it will likely value that database nonetheless if Trump wins the election. There is simply no place else to go for so many loyal officials.

#16 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-10-30 12:38 AM

@#7 ... OMG, Lamp, it just struck me tonight how meticulously over a period of years the Republican party has been planning their Orban style take over of the country. ...

Yup.

To get an idea of what fmr Pres Trump would want to do, just look at those dictators he seems to admire.

Trump points to Hungary's Viktor Orbn as example of his support from foreign leaders
www.npr.org

... Former President Donald Trump cited his close ties to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán to counter attacks by Vice President Harris in Tuesday night's presidential debate that world leaders are "laughing" at Trump.

"Let me just say about world leaders, Viktor Orbán, one of the most respected men, they call him a strong man. He's a tough person. Smart prime minister of Hungary. They said, Why is the whole world blowing up?" Trump said. ...



#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-30 01:07 AM

@#7 ... "European politics has its handbook, it is worth knowing: when liberal parties win, there is democracy, when conservatives win, there is not," Orban told a joint news conference in the capital, Tbilisi.

"Because the conservatives won, there will be debates, and they are not to be taken seriously." ...


Wow.


#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-30 01:10 AM

Musk's economic plan will be Trump's. And after seeing the performance of Twiier after Musk bought it and the government money that saved Tesla I don't necessarily think he's any better at business than Trump is.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-30 01:35 AM

One of the wealthiest businessman in the world sucks at business?

Interesting take.

#20 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-10-30 02:02 AM

Cutting government fat can start with all 5he welfare we shoveling into Elmo's pockets by canceling his very lucrative contracts and bring that all in house.

#21 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2024-10-30 02:18 AM

How does the government go about bringing it all "in-house"?

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-10-30 02:29 AM

For example, the government doesn't build the F-22. It gave out specs it needed for the plane, contractors bid it out and the best design won th3 "lucrative contract."

#23 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-10-30 02:31 AM

@#10 ... How does the government go about bringing it all "in-house"? ...

Yeah, that is a significant concern that Americans should now be worried about.

A person who seems to routinely talk with the dictator of an adversarial country gets significant from the US government. Some (much, most?) of that money comes from the US Defense Department.

So, how does your current alias propose that problem is solved?



#24 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-30 02:51 AM

@#12 ... Interesting take. ...

Yeah, that is an interesting take to get from this thread.

But is it correct?

What's yer current alias got to justify it?

#25 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-30 03:44 AM

One of the wealthiest businessman in the world sucks at business?

Interesting take.

#12 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-10-30 02:02 AM |

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in while.

#26 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-10-30 06:59 AM

Ballwasher the clown reminds us all of the dangers of eating lead paint.

#27 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-10-30 08:27 AM

Jeff has no solutions, just mindless MAGAT --------

#28 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-10-30 08:30 AM

Leon admits the bankruptcy-prone orange turd would crash the economy again. That's an interesting campaign promise to announce.

#29 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-10-30 09:11 AM

Elon Musk Makes Shocking Confession on His Plans After Trump Victory

Garbage Incinerators!

#30 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-10-30 09:15 AM

"Elon Musk admitted that he knows that Donald Trump's policies if elected president would crash the economy, but thinks that the price is worth it."

What a nice man.

Worth it for him personally.

Fkkk the rest of you hoi polloi.

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-30 11:18 AM

The ultra wealthy love recessions. Gives the chance to buy up assets from the struggling working and middle class at low prices and then sell/rent it back to them at a higher price.

#32 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-10-30 03:11 PM

This is peak MAGA stupidity.

They're voting for Trump, in part, because of their perceived economic problems.

Then a billionaire trustfund moron who won't be affected by his own policies tells them they'll have to be ready for economic hardship.

And they cheer and say "hell yeah, I'm voting for that!"

Morons probably think they won't be affected by it.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2024-10-30 06:32 PM

Elmo claims he'll end wasteful government agencies.

A DeJoy/Musk cage match could make this endurable.

#34 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-10-30 07:01 PM

First there would be a short term economic followed by a permanent depression with Oligarchs having most of the wealth and the rest of poor like most Russians. Plus all dissent would be repressed bu our military.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-31 01:39 AM

Basically they wo in ld change America from the most successful economy in the world which it is right now under Biden into a s**thole like Russia!

#36 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-31 01:45 AM

Yeah, I think Musk is the 'worst kind of Republican'.
One that actually swallowed all of the rich people Ayn Randian rhetoric about
'doing away with the Middle Class once and for all'.

This does not bode well at all...

#37 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-10-31 07:01 AM

Yeah, that is a significant concern that Americans should now be worried about.

A person who seems to routinely talk with the dictator of an adversarial country gets significant from the US government. Some (much, most?) of that money comes from the US Defense Department.

#24 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-10-30 02:51 AM | Reply

NASA put the majority of their eggs in the SpaceX basket. Curiously, ever since the weed incident on JRE, he doesn't really run SpaceX. Gwynne Shotwell runs it.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-10-31 08:20 AM

How do you take the eggs back out of that basket?

Buy flights on Soyuz...

I doubt we're ready for that lol.

#39 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-10-31 08:21 AM

Then a billionaire trustfund moron who won't be affected by his own policies tells them they'll have to be ready for economic hardship.

And they cheer and say "hell yeah, I'm voting for that!"

Morons probably think they won't be affected by it.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2024-10-30 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

We're going to go through an economic hardship no matter who gets elected. It's just most people I know trust Trump to lead us through it more than Harris. 2022 and 2023 were crazy, a time where we watched huge investment firms like Black Rock, Vanguard and State Street swallow up as much of American housing as they could. Often times paying more than list price to acquire it. They didn't do all of that to burn money, It's eventually going to start to hurt. I don't know how bad it will get but I can tell you this, we cant keep borrowing a trillion dollars a quarter and think it won't come crashing down.

#40 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 10:15 AM

"We're going to go through an economic hardship no matter who gets elected." -

#40 | Posted by lfthndthrds | Flag: Clearly hates America and wants to see it fail

#41 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-31 10:17 AM

I guess that fat mouth illegal alien, who overstayed his student visa to work illegally, does not realize when too many people are desperate they take out their guillotines and start lopping the heads off people just like his ugly ass.

#42 | Posted by Wildman62 at 2024-10-31 11:16 AM

a time where we watched huge investment firms like Black Rock, Vanguard and State Street swallow up as much of American housing as they could.

#40 | Posted by lfthndthrds

What would Trump have done to stop that? I've never heard him say anything about it. But he probably has a "concept of a plan".... just two weeks away.

And, are you advocating for government intervention into the markets? That's VERY unRepublican of you.

#43 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-10-31 11:17 AM

-It's just most people I know trust Trump to lead us through it more than Harris.

Exactly.

It's all about Trust. Trust they choose to give to Trump choose not to give to Harris.

It's not about the policies, or speeches, or gaffes, etc.

It's about the trust. Trust that's being given....not earned.

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 11:28 AM

"We're going to go through an economic hardship no matter who gets elected." -

I believe that's true as well. Economies expand and contract. It's what economies do.

It's not some dial in the oval office the president just turns like a friggin thermostat.

I honestly think most posters here believe the economy works like a thermostat in the oval office.

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 11:30 AM

" It's not some dial in the oval office the president just turns like a friggin thermostat."

On the contrary.

I made an eff-load of money by betting Trump's crew would weaken the dollar once they got in. They'd been left a strong dollar, an asset I believed they could/would harness and manipulate.

And then THEY bet the dollar would get weaker, all while making it weaker.

Of course, that pales compared to the ability to place last-minute bets the "deal" will get made, when insiders know it's a fait accompli. Or bet the other way, if they know the news coming out is bad for the deal.

#46 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 11:40 AM

-I made an eff-load of money by betting Trump's crew would weaken the dollar once they got in

"Parasite!!"

-The Left

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 11:48 AM

What would Trump have done to stop that? I've never heard him say anything about it. But he probably has a "concept of a plan".... just two weeks away.

And, are you advocating for government intervention into the markets? That's VERY unRepublican of you.

#43 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-10-31 11:17 AM | Reply

I don't know what Trump would have done, I wasn't baling political hay with that post. I was simply stating the obvious from my perspective.

#48 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 11:50 AM

"Parasite!!"

For knowing they were crooks and betting that way?!?

What leftie has EVER called that a parasite?

#49 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 11:57 AM

It's about the trust. Trust that's being given....not earned.

#44 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag

My perspective

Our government is overwhelmingly obese and I have two people to choose from. I simply think policies brought forward by the former Trump administration are better than what Harris could come up with.

I don't care about gaffs, memes and speeches when I go actually vote.

#50 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 11:58 AM

-For knowing they were crooks and betting that way?!?

How exactly did you "bet that way"?

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:01 PM

#45 | Posted by eberly

The economy is effected by many factors. Trump/Republican, and Musk economic policies will likely have dramatically bad outcomes. ..Probably FAR worse even than typical conservative policy.

#52 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-10-31 12:06 PM

"How exactly did you "bet that way"?"

I rebalanced my portfolio to favor non-dollar denominated investments, and had all new (twice-a-month) investing go that way as well.

As the dollar weakened, my investments naturally went up in value, even if they stayed the same price.

That year, my largest foreign investment was up 58.9%

#53 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:13 PM

The economy is effected by many factors.

#52 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-10-31 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag

"Housing costs are too high.

When I am president, we will end America's housing shortage by building 3 million affordable new homes and rentals"

~ Kamala Harris

Neat little idea that will definitely effect the economy. Who's going to pay for this ----?

#54 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 12:13 PM

"Musk economic policies will likely have dramatically bad outcomes"

So Musk will the short the markets, to take advantage of the hurt he's caused.

Peak Republican!

#55 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:14 PM

"Neat little idea that will definitely effect the economy. Who's going to pay for this ----?"

Why pretend homes must be built at a loss?!?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:15 PM

Why pretend homes must be built at a loss?!?

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag

Why pretend we can't see what's keeping our citizens from being prosperous enough to build/buy their own home? And maybe fix that, instead of sinking deeper in debt.

#57 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 12:25 PM

elon pulled a no-show in PA court today over his illegal lottery. Shocking.

#58 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2024-10-31 12:28 PM

53

Gotcha.

Congrats!! I was assuming more of a shorting type action.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:29 PM

50/52

You both reference "policies" that are driving your decisions but neither of you specifically mention a single policy.

That represents many many voters.

They're sure the policies are bad....but they don't mention them.

#60 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:31 PM

"Why pretend we can't see what's keeping our citizens from being prosperous enough to build/buy their own home?"

And what, exactly, would that be?

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:33 PM

Why pretend we can't see what's keeping our citizens from being prosperous enough to build/buy their own home? And maybe fix that, instead of sinking deeper in debt.

#57 | Posted by lfthndthrds

So stop voting for the party of reaganomics dummy.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-10-31 12:40 PM

Who's going to pay for this ----?

#54 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Who paid for a 2.3 trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthy?

#63 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-31 12:46 PM

"Neat little idea that will definitely effect the economy. Who's going to pay for this ----?"

Why pretend homes must be built at a loss?!?

#56 | Posted by Danforth

I'm not following.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:48 PM

I'm not following.

#64 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag

Read #54

#65 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 12:51 PM

I did.

I don't understand Danforth's response.

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 12:53 PM

And what, exactly, would that be?

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

You just tried to wowze us with your economic brillance, you cant figure that out?

For one thing, people need jobs that pay more money. How does that happen? Oh I don't know, maybe start actually manufacturing something domestically?

People need opportunity more so than free stuff. I realize this is a subject much deeper, but it's a start.

#67 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 12:55 PM

People need opportunity more so than free stuff. I realize this is a subject much deeper, but it's a start.

POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Glad to hear some common sense from you for a change.

Then you will be voting for Kamala Harris and her detailed plans for an Opportunity Economy?

Or are you still going with the convicted criminal with a Concept of a Plan and whose only real plan now is to enrich himself and fellow billionaires and stay out of prison?

#68 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-31 01:01 PM

-Then you will be voting for Kamala Harris and her detailed plans for an Opportunity Economy?

I'm voting for Kamala Harris. Her detailed plans might not come within a thousand miles of the White House.

But I'm a big boy...I'm not voting for her based on those detailed plans.

She's campaigning.

Not governing

#69 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 01:07 PM

Then you will be voting for Kamala Harris and her detailed plans for an Opportunity Economy?

#68 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-31 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag

Sure thing.... stay right where you are and hold your breath until I get back

#70 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2024-10-31 01:08 PM

Re 70

No worries.

You are obviously a Trumplican cultist. So I didn't figure that common sense would ultimately prevail upon you.

#71 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-31 01:14 PM

"You just tried to wowze us with your economic brillance, you cant figure that out?"

Oh, I know lots of ways. I just wanted you to point out the one(s) you believe are the most obvious. Small, affordable housing is a step in that direction.

"I'm not following."

My simple statement was referring to the fact small, affordable housing CAN be built at a profit.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 01:20 PM

"People need opportunity more so than free stuff."

We're not at full employment, we're at greater-than-full employment. Opportunities abound.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-10-31 01:23 PM

"But I'm a big boy...I'm not voting for her based on those detailed plans."

I am not voting for her because of those particular plans either. I was responding to the Turd. Who actually made sense. For a second there.

I am voting for her positivity her character and her overall demeanor experience and abilities and knowledge.

Her campaign promises are just that. Promises. And those of us who have been around while know exactly what they mean. We will be lucky if one or two get implemented. Unless we get control of Congress, too!

But that's up to the American people to decide. But taken in their entirety those promises indicate what she intends to try and do once elected.

And it's not revenge and retribution and mass deportations and attacks on our Public Servants, stripping rights from our women, or undermining our democracy.

#74 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-10-31 01:39 PM

-Opportunities abound.

opportunities for more govt funded housing?

when we had low unemployment when GWB was president, liberals were upset because wages still sucked.

And they weren't wrong.....but what about now?

Our economy is kicking so much ass that the market can't provide enough affordable housing.

People simply can't afford to live.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 01:58 PM

-affordable housing CAN be built at a profit.

with or without government involvement?

It WILL be built at a profit regardless. That's how the markets work.

And I'm not ragging on the idea.

but it's difficult to spin this as "things are really really good" while you're acknowledging millions and millions of employed people can't afford to live where they work.

#76 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 02:01 PM

Who's going to pay for this ----?

#54 | Posted by lfthndthrds

Since you point out that it's part of the problem; To start, I personally wouldn't be opposed to forcing the likes of "Black Rock, Vanguard and State Street" to liquidate at a loss, and/or finance lots of new construction of affordable housing.

#77 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-10-31 02:06 PM

Our economy is kicking so much ass that the market can't provide enough affordable housing.

People simply can't afford to live.

#75 | Posted by eberly

And Democrats can't do anything with a divided Congress and a Republican Party that screams Socialism anytime Dems do anything.

Worse, we have a Supreme Court that blocks even basic policy initiatives.

Stop blaming Dems.

#78 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-10-31 02:15 PM

78

I'm not blaming dems. I'm arguing the narrative that everything is so great.

I don't blame parties for everyone's problems. If there is only 1 poster in the history of the DR that resists the urge to do that, it's me.

Gridlock is a reality.

and will continue to be so. Especially if Harris wins.

#79 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 02:19 PM

"Department of Government Efficiency"

LMAO

Trump has always been, and will always be, nothing more than a troll.

#80 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-10-31 02:48 PM

#76 | Posted by eberly

It's all relative in my book. Americans are FAR better off than any other folks across the globe post-COVID thanks to Kamala's (i.e., Biden's, but the Right is giving credit for Biden's four years as POTUS straight to Kamala for some odd reason) policies. It's certainly not an ideal situation, as you described, but it's the best in the world (relatively speaking, of course).

#81 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-10-31 03:03 PM

#80 | Posted by sentinel

Yeah: "The U.S. Air Force spent approximately 8,000% more for soap dispensers used in C-17 transport aircraft, according to a recent audit by the Department of Defense"

It's some crazy stuff, but I highly doubt Musk is interested in eliminating THIS type of waste. LOL

#82 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-10-31 03:05 PM

-It's certainly not an ideal situation, as you described, but it's the best in the world (relatively speaking, of course).

I don't disagree and I'm not complaining about the overall picture. I was micro focused on that specific issue (affordable housing).

Nobody wants to blame Americans for their lot in life.

Certainly not politicians trolling for votes.

They have to be a victim of ________'s policies (my opponent).

#83 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 03:12 PM

"but it's difficult to spin this as "things are really really good" while you're acknowledging millions and millions of employed people can't afford to live where they work." -

#76 | Posted by eberly

There are 195 recognized countries in the world.

Taking away the USA, that leaves 194.

Which one of those remaining 194 countries are better - economically, militarily, and as diverse - as the USA?

#84 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-31 03:39 PM

84

you're bragging about our military?

you left out poverty, incarceration rates, child mortality rates, education, health care and 40 or 50 other areas where we struggle mightly.

but you're right....we spend more than everyone else put together on our military.

Gung ho!!

Admit it...we're great when a dem in the WH even while we burn with all these problems....that you ignore.

#85 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 03:43 PM

"you're bragging about our military?" -

#85 | Posted by eberly

Sure.

Which one of the remaining 194 countries (mentioned in my #84) has a stronger military than the USA?

#86 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-31 03:48 PM

I don't disagree and I'm not complaining about the overall picture. I was micro focused on that specific issue (affordable housing).

Nobody wants to blame Americans for their lot in life.

Certainly not politicians trolling for votes.

They have to be a victim of ________'s policies (my opponent).

#83 | Posted by eberly

We do blame americans. We blame the americans who used their wealth to write the rules in their own favor and then sucked up all the real estate to turn the working class into permanent renters.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-10-31 03:50 PM

"you left out poverty, incarceration rates, child mortality rates, education, health care and 40 or 50 other areas where we struggle mightly." -

#85 | Posted by eberly

To which I respond: So what?

In spite of the abundant problems here in the USA, that you listed, America is better than the previously mentioned 194 countries when looking at (in your own words) "the overall picture".

#88 | Posted by Hans at 2024-10-31 03:53 PM

-Which one of the remaining 194 countries (mentioned in my #84) has a stronger military than the USA?

none.

so what? Any president at this point is going to inherit that.....and they aren't responsible for that construction at all.

and they aren't likely to change anything about that.

But when the military does something bad or embarrassing or downright tragic....there is a brief period where everyone here clutches their pearls and pisses and moans about how much we piss away being the world's policeman.

and then it's election time.......and you pretend that it's no big deal.

#89 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 04:49 PM

-To which I respond: So what?

Oh, well then nevermind. They aren't important to you.

noted, Hans.

#90 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 04:49 PM

-We do blame americans

I was referring to pandering politicians, fool.

#91 | Posted by eberly at 2024-10-31 04:50 PM

I was referring to pandering politicians, fool.

#91 | Posted by eberly

The politicians are the ones who took the bribes from the rich to screw everyone else. Mostly in your party.

#92 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-10-31 05:09 PM

Today I heard Musk say they want to cut spending by 3 trillion dollars but no acknowledgement that Trumo's tax cuts for the rich and inue tfor corporations went mostly to top executives in bonuses etc.

"Was expensive and eroded the U.S. revenue base. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated in 2018 that the 2017 law would cost $1.9 trillion over ten years,[3] and recent estimates show that making the law's temporary individual income and estate tax cuts permanent would cost another roughly $400 billion a year beginning in 2027.[4] Together with the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts enacted under President Bush (most of which were made permanent in 2012), the law has severely eroded our country's revenue base. Revenue as a share of GDP has fallen from about 19.5 percent in the years immediately preceding the Bus h tax cuts to just 16.3 percent in the years immediately following the Trump tax cuts, with revenues expected to rise to an annual average of 16.9 percent of GDP in 2018-2026 (excluding pandemic years), according to CBO. This is simply not enough revenue given the nation's investment needs and our commitments to Social Security and health coverage." It is a permanent reduction in revenue for the Federal Government

www.cbpp.org ed-to-deliver

So what Musk is really saying is he wants to make the Trump tax cuts which arre set to expire in 2025, permanent for the rich and F**K! THE REST OF US! sO HIS CLAIM THAT IT WILL A "temporary hardship" IS A FLAT OUT LIE AND HE KNOWS IT! tEMPORARY MY ASS! tHEY WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TEMPORARY BY MAKING THOSE TAX CUTS PERMANT! Musk and Trump want to cut 2 Trillion from Sodial Sevurity and Mrficare to continue tax cuts that flow to the rich and corporations. electing Trump will have a direct cost to the elderly, most of whom are barely making it now!

#93 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-31 08:08 PM

"The elderly, most of whom are barely making it now!" BS The economy is great. Prices are at the lowest level in years. You are living a better life now, more than ever. Haven't you read the threads on this very site for the last few years. Moved yet?

#94 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2024-10-31 08:14 PM

Former President Bill Clinton made another gaffe on the campaign trail, this time telling voters in Michigan to support Vice President Kamala Harris even if former President Donald Trump's economy "was better."

#95 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2024-10-31 08:17 PM

"Former President Bill Clinton made another gaffe on the campaign trail, this time telling voters in Michigan to support Vice President Kamala Harris even if former President Donald Trump's economy "was better."

You're right! It was a gaffe because the economy was not really better during Trump's Presidency if you look at BIDEN'S ENTIRE pRESIDENCY AND NOT JUST THE PART THAT WAS DEALING WITH THE pANDEMIC. bUT, i his point, the Biden economy did suffer from the effects of the Pandemic. It recovered quite well since it has largely subsided. Perhaps if Trump had more aggressively combstted COVID the Pandemic would have been shorterand less deadly. I know this I do not want a science denier to be President the next timewe are hit with a health crisis. Are you a science denier too Gracie?

#96 | Posted by danni at 2024-10-31 08:45 PM

Today I heard Musk say they want to cut spending by 3 trillion dollars but no acknowledgement that Trumo's tax cuts for the rich and for corporations went mostly to top executives in bonuses etc.

"Was expensive and eroded the U.S. revenue base. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated in 2018 that the 2017 law would cost $1.9 trillion over ten years,[3] and recent estimates show that making the law's temporary individual income and estate tax cuts permanent would cost another roughly $400 billion a year beginning in 2027.[4] Together with the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts enacted under President Bush (most of which were made permanent in 2012), the law has severely eroded our country's revenue base. Revenue as a share of GDP has fallen from about 19.5 percent in the years immediately preceding the Bus h tax cuts to just 16.3 percent in the years immediately following the Trump tax cuts, with revenues expected to rise to an annual average of 16.9 percent of GDP in 2018-2026 (excluding pandemic years), according to CBO. This is simply not enough revenue given the nation's investment needs and our commitments to Social Security and health coverage."

www.cbpp.org ed-to-deliver

So what Musk is really saying is he wants to make the Trump tax cuts permanent for the rich and F**K! THE REST OF US! sO HIS CLAIM THAT IT WILL BE A IS "temporary hardship" IS A FLAT OUT LIE AND HE KNOWS IT! tEMPORARY MY ASS!

#97 | Posted by danni at 2024-11-01 09:22 AM

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