Was it a negligent discharge.

Monday, January 26, 2026

Did the decedent's firearm go off as the officer removed it turned with it in hand.

Posted by Petrous at 12:03 PM | 321 COMMENTS | permalink

Chaos in a few seconds.

Comments

No, it was an execution.

#1 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2026-01-26 12:14 PM

Was it a negligent discharge.

Nonsense.

As I posted elsewhere, there's closeup video showing the ICE officer shooting him in the back after he saw that the gun had been taken away:
Just watched this analysis of the shooting, including some video I hadn't seen before.

Male nurse had no gun in his hands, and didn't draw his gun.

The agent shot him after he saw that the gun had been taken away, as it probably didn't even register with him that the guy was now disarmed even though he was looking right at it.

I stated this PoV in my initial post on the topic.

Did the decedent's firearm go off as the officer removed it turned with it in hand.

My understanding is that particular weapon has a twitchy trigger, meaning slight top of barrel touch and the weapon can discharge.

IMO it was handled with care, so its not negligent discharge, its an accidental accidental (gun defect).

Some lawyers have mentioned SIG might be culpable in this case.

You're a ------- ------.

LOL. imalumpertoo going with the Alec Baldwin defense. Too funny.

It does look like execution. It does look like he wasn't holding any weapon.

If that firearm went off, what do you do? What do the officers think is happening?

There's no ignoring the reaction to a weapon discharge. If that shot isn't from that gun, then ballistics should confirm if that weapon was even fired.

If you are the defense attorney,you will look at this possibility.

If it happened,the grand jury would too.

then ballistics should confirm if that weapon was even fired.

Assuming anyone checks it, or even knows where it is now.

If you are the defense attorney,you will look at this possibility.

Assuming anyone is ever charged and there is a trial.

A stabilized zoomed in slow motion version.
old.reddit.com

There is zero doubt what happened, 54 seconds in.

Add in the video where we see the gun was taken from the male nurse right in front of the agent's eyes, and there is no chance this shooting was defensible.

I don't think this was murder, though. Agent was in over his head and made an error.

"I don't think this was murder, though. Agent was in over his head and made an error."

That's an absurdly generous assessment.

He thinks dead Palestinian children had it coming because reasons. ---- him.

The guy was shot multiple times.

Was there a discharge of his gun by the officer holding it?

Without that discharge, then did someone think he was reaching for a weapon?

Someone started the shooting. One pull is all that was needed for them all to shoot.

It comes down to why?

Prosecutors and defense attorneys will need those facts.

It looks like cold blooded murder. As we wait, more comes out.

There has been more analysis of the potential discharge of that gun. The history of that gun is still recent.

As a juror, what would you do if that gun went off and that happened?

The last jury I was on, one juror felt someone had to pay, despite self defense was established. That's the attitude that must park outside the deliberation room.

That's an absurdly generous assessment.
#9 | Posted by Angrydad

Maybe.

Brain/limb interaction is tricky, and sometimes the hands do stuff once set in motion before the brain has a chance to process current events and tell them to stop. Although in this case, male nurse never even drew the gun and no indication he was going to do so, so no basis for the use of deadly force.

#12 | Posted by censored

My "theory" is that the offending agent (murderer), seeing that a gun had been taken from the victim, thought to himself: "Sweet. Dude had a gun. Green light...BAM!!!

My "theory" is that the offending agent (murderer), seeing that a gun had been taken from the victim, thought to himself: "Sweet. Dude had a gun. Green light...BAM!!!
#13 | Posted by Angrydad

Also a distinct possibility.

Seems like manslaughter without the premeditation.

100% there was a spontaneous discharge.

Normally I use negligent discharge, but Pretti was carrying an Sig 320. The gun with a notorious reputation with many videos showing the gun spontaneously discharging in holsters with hands nowhere near it.

A gun with such a bad reputation for going off without the trigger being pulled most ranges won't allow them in the building. Dozens of departments that spent millions purchasing them and training their officers to use them, have just stopped using them and are spending millions more to outfit their departments with Glocks.

This in no way excuses the shooting, you should always be sure of your threat. But it goes a long way in explaining what happened and why.

Sig is culpable for producing a terrible and dangerous product and denying there is a problem at every turn.

But I think the one with the most culpability is the agent who disarmed Pretti and failed to announce it LOUDLY that he had done so.

"100% there was a spontaneous discharge."

Is this 100% of your evidence or is there more?

"This in no way excuses the shooting, you should always be sure of your threat. But it goes a long way in explaining what happened and why."

We gave morons guns and badges is the ONLY reason this happened.

You not being able to just come out and say that is ridiculous. It strains whatever credibility you think you have.

----, even the White House has walked back their story. You're still trying to sell it.

It's going to come down to the investigation. Dod the agent that shot actually see he had been disarmed? Was there a spontaneous discharge by a gun known to be prone to them and then cause the agent to think he or his partners were under fire from Pretti?

It's a lot of sticky questions and I look forward to the answers.

It certainly doesn't look good for the shooting agent at all. Difficult to legally justify. But man the agent that disarmed him should have yelled "gun secure!" It's just as important to announce that as it is to tell everyone there is a gun.

17. You can clearly see it in the video. As he turns the slide rocks back his arm goes up from the recoil and his head instinctively ducks. It happened.

That Sig 320 is a dangerous piece of crap.

This is just one of a ton of videos about the 320 and its known problems with spontaneous discharges.

youtube.com

I guess the other 10+ shots were discharges too.
Uh. Oops?

#15 | #19 | #20 Flag:

What are you talking about? Wrestling with a subject ... Right or wrong at the moment is immaterial. You see a gun yell it out, and suddenly a shot is fired ... . And now you think you or your partners are taking fire.

And now you think you or your partners are taking fire.
#24 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

This happened to you, or are you playing make-believe?

"You see a gun yell it out, and suddenly a shot is fired"

And suddenly your partner starts shooting because you yelled gun.

And this is how one hand washes the other.

How many people did you shoot in your law end career? Answering that question will speak to your credibility as an expert witness.

Except that isn't when he started shooting. He shout after the spontaneous discharge. Why lie about it?

That Sig 320 is a dangerous piece of crap.

Is that true, or just the Alec Baldwin defense? If it is, why can they sell them?

Those are good points, but the male nurse was disarmed right in front of the agent's eyes.

As noted in #2 above:youtube

28. True. The guns rep for ADs is so bad. Is davi famous for them

"He shout after the spontaneous discharge."

#27 Flag: You're welcome

"spontaneous discharge"

Do we actually have ballistics evidence supporting the claim that his gun discharged in any capacity?

Bcause I tend to think if this actually happened, that evidence would be on the front page of WhiteHouse.gov. Don't you?

#33 He's just gaslighting because he has nothing else.

But man the agent that disarmed him should have yelled "gun secure!" It's just as important to announce that as it is to tell everyone there is a gun.
#19 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Not if you're looking to establish a lethal force justification so you can kill some bitch protester.

You understand ICE hates protesters, right? Can you acknowledge that?

If you watch the video attached to this article you might learn something. Like seeing and hearing the gun fire right when it's removed.

I know that we'll be inconvenient for your hatred. The good news for your hatred is he should still be sure of his threat and clearly was not.

"Like seeing and hearing the gun fire right when it's removed."

So ICE discharged his weapon, then killed him for it?

That's not what a spontaneous or accidental discharge means. The gin fired on its own as it's prone to do which caused the agents to believe they were under fire.

That doesn't excuse them not being sure of their threat but it makes it a whole lot less malicious. It also shifts some blame from the shooters to the disarming agent and to sig.

"The gin fired on its own"

When?
Was someone touching it, if so, who?

#38 Flag: Has nothing but lies; it transparently dishonest, lacking any integrity

Which is good for you, yes? That means more ice agents for you to hate and blame!

"caused the agents to believe they were under fire."

Did the report of the incoming fire originate in the direction of the person they killed?

Remember when the acorn landed on the cop car, so he just started blasting? That's essentially what you're saying happened here.

It also shifts some blame from the shooters to the disarming agent and to sig.
#38 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Why was a legally armed man being disarmed in the first place?

What's your justification for denying his rights?

#39 Snoofy, the real tell that Alex Pretti's gun was never fired or went off on its own:

If that was the case, it would have been plastered all over Fox News, NY Post, WSJ, the WH Web site, etc.

The fact it wasn't is 100% proof that any claim of spontaneous emission is simply a wet dream.

And nothing else.

See also: Zero pictures of Rene Nicole Good's murderer's "bruises."

Facts matter. To deny there was an accidental discharge at this point is insane. It's just straight denial of reality

To deny that the sig 320 is a totally flawed design that has a long and well documented history of spontaneously firing without the trigger being touched is also insane.

It's okay if your cute little narrative you constructed of the evil assassins twirling their snidely whiplash mustaches and looking for reasons to kill people is proved wrong. But you should be man enough to admit it.

#41 Flag: Forgets that ICE hatred is self-induced; no help needed

#45 Flag: Believes the unbelievable; a unicorn is his pet

#45 Flag: Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never went off

"looking for reasons to kill people"

Have you been retired for like 20 years, and have no idea what's actually going on?

Is that why you don't realize how stupid you sound, to actually be a cop, and saying ICE isn't looking for excuses to escalate violence against civilians who get in their way?

That is literally what they are instructed to do.
And this is the training from ten years ago.
Not the new stuff they're getting from IDF and Stephen Miller!
Link from 2016:

What ICE agents are taught: How to use deadly force', evade lawsuits
According to one lesson in 2016, which is still available on FLETC, officers are allowed to react with force to the threat of violence and not just violence itself.
The lesson describes the following as a myth: "Deadly force can only be used as a last resort." Establishing that policy and law are not the same, the lesson goes on to say, "The law requires officers to use objectively reasonable force, not the minimal force."
Giving a warning or using minimal force or all other forms of force before shooting, the training said, could "create an unnecessary risk for the officer".
www.aljazeera.com

"cute little narrative you constructed of the evil assassins twirling their snidely whiplash mustaches "

See, you're forcing yourself to live in a cartoon world.
You can't take this seriously.

Here in the real world, they say "------- Bitch" after they shoot her in the face.
That's a cute little narrative Angry White Men like you created.
For some reason, you're telling us we're getting you guys all wrong.

The ICE agent telling the civilians following them around
"Have y'all not learned from the past couple of days?"

That's the narrative, cop.

Are you man enough to talk about it?

You sound like you grew up in a Sundown Town and you liked it.

You can't take this seriously.
~ Snoofy

Similar to how you can't take illegal immigrants committing murder seriously.

#52 Flag: Doesn't care about murder victims; uses them as a cudgel

#52 Snoofy asks, "Are you man enough to talk about it?"

Imshakinitboss was unavailable for comment.

You will do or say anything to avoid the fact that there was an AD and it very likely contributed to the shooting.

Just because you want it to be worse than the facts say it is.

Quit trying to deflect to other things. I'm not going to run around with you while you carry these goal posts around.

The facts are what they are. It's okay. I admit they are at fault ... it shouldn't affect you this much that it is not as malicious as you want it to be.

"You will do or say anything to avoid the fact that there was an AD and it very likely contributed to the shooting."

ICE being in Minnesota in the first place is the #1 contributing factor to this shooting.
ICE strongarm tactics is what caused all of this to happen.
All of it.

"You will do or say anything to avoid the fact that there was an AD"

I'm not convinced there was, or there wasn't.

I don't think it's particularly germane, since the intervention and escalation by the police caused the circumstances that resulted in the alleged accidental discharge.

DHS reports two agents fired their weapons, could that second cop's weapon have been the discharge you're 100% sure was an accidental discharge?

#55 Flag: Facts matter; Alex Pretti's gun was never fired, by accident or on purpose

Hint: You're the only person outside the fevered sewage dumps of the QANON haunts lying about this.

#57 100% correct, Snoofy.

"I admit they are at fault"

The entire mission is to terrorize immigrants and Americans who are fresh off the boat from Somalia, and any others they happen to feel like harassing.

Why can't you just address that?

The whole reason ICE is there, is for things like this, to happen.

"I admit they are at fault"

They murdered that man like Nazis in the streets of Poland.

Ah, this is a Reddit gaslight.

Noted.

Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

A fact that cannot be disproven.

57. Oh. So I guess you're just going to refuse to watch the video attached to this article. Fair enough.

First shot fired Alex Pretti's gun is already away from him, prone on the ground.

click image for larger view

"So I guess you're just going to refuse to watch the video"

This video, the one captioned "Did the decedent's firearm go off as the officer removed it turned with it in hand."

So you're saying ICE caused the gun to fire, and then ICE reacted to their own fire by killing this guy.

Do I have these facts right?

Ice is there to detain people in the country illegally. If the citizens didn't violently interfere with their operations and allowed them to conduct their lawful arrests, There would be zero violence. All of this stems from a population unable to look beyond the politics of thePresident liking the agency. It's immaterial. Their job is legitimate and necessary. Their arrests lawful. If they let them do the job the country hired them to do, this operation would likely be over by now and there would very likely be two less deaths.

There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission to find people here illegally and take them before an immigration judge. That's all they do. There are two notable exceptions: 1) if someone voluntarily leaves in lieu of seeing a judge and 2) if they already have a final order of deportation from getting denied by two judges.

30 years here and no criminal record? Great. Go see an immigration judge and get legal status.

The most heinous culprit here is sanctuary cities and states. If they would honor ice detainers and allow them to pick up aliens convicted of crimes before they are released into the community, ice wouldn't have to go find them.

"firearm go off as the officer removed it"

In normal English, the ICE agent fired the gun as he was trying to remove it.

That's not a spontaneous discharge. There's nothing spontaneous about that. That's as spontaneous as the time that Saudi Prince got off the rape charge by saying he was sleepwalking with an -------- and happened to fall onto the couch where the woman was laying.

"Ice is there to detain people in the country illegally."

Oh so you're just going to completely deny that there's been a massive increase in violence by ICE as they carry out this mission.

You won't talk about the broken windows, the citizens being taken and released, all of that is not part of what ICE is there to do, it just kinda... somehow... keeps happening.

Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

Timeline: A Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti

Again: Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

" If the citizens didn't violently interfere with their operations and allowed them to conduct their lawful arrests, "

Citizens aren't violently interfering with anything. If they were, they would be charged and prosecuted, and so perhaps some small number have been. Meanwhile, ICE has arrested over 100 Americans and all released with no charges filed.

#66

Anyone who trusts the World's Greatest Liar, who LIED about immigrant crime rates in this country for political reasons; to create fear and get elected... anyone who trusts him to handle immigration in a rational and truthful way should have their heads examined.

65: no and you know it. A defective gun fired in its own. And caused agents to think they were under fire. Perhaps if the disarming agent had announced it, they would have paused and been better identifying their threat.

But you already knew that. You like intentionally distorting facts to make it appear better for you like it's some kind of brave and smug point.

"Their job is legitimate and necessary."

No it isn't necessary.
75% of the immigrants detained by ICE have no criminal record.
Why is it necessary to detain them and send them to camps and then deport them?
Especially the camps part, why not just deport them forthwith, like we did in Trump's first term?

"firearm go off as the officer removed it"

A lie. Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

Timeline: A Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti

Again: Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

"A defective gun fired in its own."

Another lie. Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

Timeline: A Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti

Again: Facts matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

That doesn't matter. The law doesn't say only people with an arrest record. It says anyone here illegally is subject to arrest and being brought before an immigration judge.

All of the 9/11 hijackers were visa overstays and here illegally. They had no criminal record. You don't want people like that picked up?

In normal English, the ICE agent fired the gun as he was trying to remove it.

Yep. My guns have been here all day and none of them have gone off by themselves.

"There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission to find people here illegally and take them before an immigration judge."

Did someone say there was?
What's inherently wrong is how the mission is being carried out.

This is worth multiple civilian fatalities to you.
"This is necessary" were your words.
"There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission" those were also your words.

You really think this is worth multiple civilian fatalities, to not even send all that many illegal immigrants packing? Not even talking about the cost; one day of ICE operations in Minneapolis costs more than it cost OBL to pull off 9/11.

Tell us why the ICE mission is worth the price of cops killing civilians.
Or maybe you just consider civilians a Target of Opportunity, like ICE does.

70 you must really hate the news. The list is LONG of the violent interference.

And they started it

They should peacefully assemble on sidewalks well away from the agents while conducting their operations. That's what then constitution allows for. Not this horrific war being waged against ice for doing their job.

horrific war being waged against ice

What a lying -----.

78 again with the disingenuous. Correlating disparate thoughts together like it's a smug point is stupid. I never said that and you know it.

The reality is, if the citizens didn't interfere violently like they have been for MONTHS, no violence would be occurring. Their inability to let ice just do its job in peace is directly responsible for the violence.

horrific war being waged against ice
What a lying -----.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2026-01-27 10:03 PM | Reply

What he said

"A defective gun fired in its own."

It didn't fire on its own.
It fired because ICE went grabbing for it.

So, the liar who says, about his Reddit (LOL) misedited "video," that "we" won't watch it, won't even look at, much less acknowledge this Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti ... probably because it thoroughly destroys his lie that the gun discharged all by itself.

But facts do matter: Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

No maybe.

No possibility.

Never happened.

Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

"if the citizens didn't interfere violently like they have been for MONTHS, no violence would be occurring."

So you're saying ICE lost their temper now?
After MONTHS they got fed up?

Did you learn to think this way from the husbands you got DA calls on, or is this just evidence that you think poor emotional regulation is an affirmative defense?

lets compare the deaths between civilians and ICE, -------.

ICE: 0 in 2026.
Civilians: 9 in 2026.

Some "war" ya got there, chief.

- if the citizens didn't interfere violently

How did the VA nurse interfere violently?

80 oh so they aren't storming hotels, vandalizing cars, throwing ice and rocks at agents, they aren't approaching them aggressively while they are trying to do their jobs? They don't surround them and other wise block them so they can't work? They don't interfere with their operations by warning their targets? They don't ram their cars? They don't DOXX the agents to terrorize their families?

You really don't watch the news.

#89 | Posted by Imshakinitboss at 2026-01-27 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag

You watched Good get murdered and prevaricated over it. You can't even decipher three videos with your own eyes.

#83 ... DON'T FALL IN TO THAT LIAR'S TRAP, Snoofy.

Not in his hand.

Not by itself.

And not in the agent's hand

Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

And he can't disprove that fact.

Moment-by-Moment Look at the Shooting of Alex Pretti

Not this horrific war being waged against ice for doing their job.
#79 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Because their "job" is to smash windows and snatch people from their cars, or detain citizens with no charges filed, simply to intimidate the public at large.

Why do you claim this is necessary? It's obviously thuggery. ICE was able to do their job just fine in Trump's first term without acting this way.

You're really too ----------- to address the real issue here is not the ICE mission statement but the fact that they're doing it like The Gestapo coming for Anne Frank?

You can't figure out that's what people are protesting?

Or are you just a Nazi? Trust me, that's the easiest explanation for you.

horrific war being waged against ice

Is that why Trump threw Bovino under the bus? Because of the horrific war?

Noem is next.

ICE was able to do their job just fine in Trump's first term without acting this way.

Correct. Trump wasn't offering bonuses for false detentions. Pence didn't tell ICE they had immunity either.

"80 oh so they aren't storming hotels, vandalizing cars, throwing ice and rocks at agents, they aren't approaching them aggressively while they are trying to do their jobs?"

That's how ICE treats people who are trying to do their jobs, so are you saying that's bad?

"storming hotels"

Any weapons discharged, any injuries?

Meanwhile, ICE storms homes and businesses all day long without a warrant, and you say it's necessary to carry out their mission.

"They don't DOXX the agents to terrorize their families?"

Federal agents serve the public and their names should be public. Like Fanone and Sicknick.

It should be illegal for police to hide their face and not have a name tag or ID number showing.

How does knowing an agent's name cause his family to exist in a state of terror?

Is this true of all Federal employees? Soldiers? Attorneys?

State police, local police, all police, should their identities be secret too?

You have such a ------ for fascism but I don't think you have the cognitive and language skills to understand that about yourself.

The liar wants a video.

Okay:

New Video Analysis Reveals Flawed and Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

NOTE: All shots are accounted for; Alex Pretti's gun never discharged

And now watch as the liar tucks his tail behind his legs and do everything to try to avoid manning up and owning his lies...

... including repeating the lie, ad nauseum, despite being proven wrong.

Also, what kind of fathers are these, leaving behind their little ones to go play GI Joe in the freezing north?

I can't imagine any ICE agent is truly capable of loving a child. Not seeing how they treat children.

"There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission to find people here illegally and take them before an immigration judge."

There is when it violates the Fourth Amendment.

As you are surely aware, ICE claims the authority to raid people's homes without a signed warrant from a judge.
And as you are surely aware, those were not the rules when you were a cop.
To enter a suspect's home, you needed a signed warrant from a judge.

You said "There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission to find people here illegally and take them before an immigration judge. That's all they do."

Does this include violating the Fourth Amendment, as you understood it when you were a cop, to enter homes and take people without a signed warrant from a Judge?

This is pretty much the crux of what's being protested in Minneapolis. And you would support those protests if you actually believed the Oath of Office you swore to the Constitution. But I think you were lying when you swore that oath.

New thread just posted:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

Will those that lied about this admit they were wrong?

Or will they just continue to lie?

Ya'll made him run away.

OK, waddle away, more like.

My understanding is that particular weapon has a twitchy trigger, meaning slight top of barrel touch and the weapon can discharge.

IMO it was handled with care, so its not negligent discharge, its an accidental accidental (gun defect).

Some lawyers have mentioned SIG might be culpable in this case.

#3 | Posted by oneironaut

You keep talking about this like you have a clue.

It has nothing to do with the trigger. In the handful of incidences where a defect has been proven, it's been found to be due to worn/weak springs in the secondary safety within the striker housing. Weak spring = safety doesn't engage, allowing striker to impact the primer if the gun is jolted the right way.

In any case, I see no reactions by any of the agents to indicate a negligent discharge. At least two officers would have been struck by debris caused by the round spalling if it had gone off and you would have at least seen a reaction from the guy holding it.

Pretti's gun never discharged.
The first gunshot you hear is from the ICEhole - who actually nudged the other ICEhole out of the way to shoot Pretti as he was subdued and laying face down on the ground.

I'm surprised more of them didn't start shooting him, honestly.

Gotta wonder how many ICE agents are taking Gender Affirming Care in the form of steroids.

The gun with a notorious reputation with many videos showing the gun spontaneously discharging in holsters with hands nowhere near it.

If the "accidental" discharge was as prevalent as you wish to portray it then the company would have been sued out of existence years ago. After all, products liability is an express exclusion from gun manufacturer liability for gun injuries.

That's not what I'm seeing. www.google.com

That said, I'll wait for some more reporting before coming to conclusions.

showing the gun spontaneously discharging in holsters with hands nowhere near it.

I wonder what superpower the owner had been using to prevent that from happening all the time he was packing it around?

D**n. Blew that one. Try again; "... is an express exclusion from gun manufacturer immunity ... for injuries.

A Milwaukee police officers' union on Monday filed a lawsuit against the city, alleging that the pistols used as the department's main duty weapon can discharge without the trigger being pulled.

The plaintiffs say the incident involving Maritato was one of at least three documented cases in which a Milwaukee Police officer was injured in SIG Sauer P320 discharges without a trigger pull, including a recent accidental discharge on Sept. 10.
www.kcra.com

After a U.S. Air Force airman died from a suspected accidental discharge of his Sig Sauer handgun in Wyoming, some USAF commanders placed an indefinite pause on its use.

Following that move, and after years of questions about the safety of the Sig Sauer P320 and its military variants, law enforcement agencies across the country have also begun their own reviews or even outright suspended its use.
www.oklahoman.com

Just a couple of instances I found in my search.

#105 | POSTED BY YAV

I haven't seen a good video of the actual shot, but the evidence this did happen is the officer on his knees in one of the videos, jumps. Though there is no audio but the movement made it seem like he was next to the discharge.

Do you have a good non-AI enhanced video? I don't understand why these videos are so poor (Android to IOS Bs??)

Gotta wonder how many ICE agents are taking Gender Affirming Care in the form of steroids.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-01-27 11:28 PM | Reply

I'd wager 75% or more.

Just a couple of instances I found in my search.

Thanks for reiterating my point. A few random cases do not a mass problem make.

If it is a mass problem the company would be sued into oblivion. Neither your nor my google searches support that conclusion. Ergo the reference to multiple youtube videos is nothing more than anecdotes that apparently don't stand up to judicial scrutiny.

Again, massive problem equals massive litigation. That ain't happnin'. Conclusion, accidental discharge ain't a mass problem.

101: okay so the courts have ruled that immigration warrants are not sufficient to enter people's homes. That's true. The DOJs position is that they are sufficient when pursuing a fleeing suspect. I haven't seen anything that indicates they have changed the view that it is always acceptable as a warrant to enter homes. If you have a source for that, I am amenable to reading it. That said the DOJ believes they have an exception. That will be litigated I. Court and upheld or not. That doesn't mean it is some crazy nefarious bout of storm trooper tactics to "terrorize" the populace. Get a grip. As for businesses? Businesses are places where the public can enter and have a reduced expectation of privacy and reduced protections under the 4th amendment.

ICE uses traffic stops to effect arrests. Something that happens every day all day in the enforcement of laws in this country. As long as they have established probable cause for the existence of an immigration violation, their traffic stops are perfectly legal. They don't NEED. A warrant of any kind to execute a traffic stop and effect an arrest. The overwhelming majority of arrests in this country are made without a warrant. There is no indication that ICE doesn't properly obtain probable cause before arresting anyone. Citizens don't get to interfere with lawful traffic stops just because they don't like the president.

So please. Tell me how the ICE Mission can get done without traffic stops. What is the way to find the people here illegally and arrest them without traffic stops? It's very simple. Run the plate, then run their identifiers through the database and if the data indicates they are here illegally? Viola? PC to arrest.

Where, exactly is the 4th amendment violation?

You say "they are violating the 4th amendment!" But have offered no proof of such.

All you have is anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal and in no way an indictment on anything other than particular case. Mistakes are terrible things and I hope everyone of them sues for redress and wins. Court is the place to fight them, not the side of the road.

Let them do their job and there would be no violence. The instigating citizens interfering with lawful arrests is without question the cause for the violence. Not then police simply doing their jobs and conducting lawful traffic stops.

This idea that ICE is "terrorizing families" is pure garbage. Every arrest on this country is traumatizing to families. We don't stop doing them because of it. It's a ridiculous premise. Every time a police officer smashes the window of sovereign citizen for failing to produce a drivers license on demand and then refusing to exit the car doesn't result in violence from the population. Ice doing it because an illegal alien who the officer had probable cause to stop and then resists arrest shouldn't either.

The law says they are subject to arrest and being brought before an immigration judge. That's it.

Your arguments about scale are specious at best. If it's lawful and moral to do by the dozens, it's lawful and moral to do by the thousands.

All I hear from the violent agitating criminals in Minneapolis is: "concentrate on the criminals!" Without a single drop of irony in their voice. Minnesota is a sanctuary state. That means when an illegal alien is convicted of a crime they don't share that with ICE. They just let them serve their sentence and release them back on the street ... .FORCING ICE to have to go find them and execute the traffic stops they hate so much to arrest them. If they simply shared info with ICE and honored detainers, the day they are scheduled for release from their sentence they would instead be transferred to an ICE detention facility, see an immigration judge, and be rightfully deported. The situation in Minnesota was CAUSED by them. Then the populace got pissed at ICE for doing the work that they caused to happen and reacted with violence. It's insane to think otherwise.

I really love the "why aren't they in Texas, there is more illegals there!" Argument. It's because in Texas they honor ICE detainers and they don't have to run around and find illegals convicted of crimes after they are released onto the streets for no reason whatsoever.

And yet somehow it is "Nazi!" And "fascism!" Because ICE is doing the work they are statutorily required to do, in a manner consistent with all law enforcement in the United States.

Because ICE is doing the work they are statutorily required to do, in a manner consistent with all law enforcement in the United States.

#115 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

No one thinks that you believe that.

#115 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

ICE isn't in Texas the way ICE is in Minnesota because Texans would react to the armed bullying, if anything, worse than the Minnesotans.

IN THEORY, those Texans not hunting deer have their guns in order to deal with official repression.

"The gun with a notorious reputation with many videos showing the gun spontaneously discharging in holsters with hands nowhere near it."

The video is crystal clear. The first gunshot was by ICE and right into Pretty. It was ICE's own gun.

That poster has lied it's --- off since the first day it posted, no matter what name it chooses. I think we're at 14 different names now? I've lost track. That poster is always a liar, always wrong.

I do believe that 100% because it's true. I've seen no evidence that their traffic stops are unlawful.

And again no, it's because ice doesn't have to run around and find the criminal illegals out on the street because Texas honors ice detainers. You have zero evidence to the contrary.

118 I have only had two. Lost the password to my ABH account after decades of use. If there was a way to reset the password I would have done so.

And nothing b I've said is a lie. The evidence contained in this article is pretty convincing. You sticking your fingers in your ears and covering your eyes doesn't change that.

Nice try though.

ICEhole #1 fired the first shot with his own weapon directly into Pretti after moving ICEhole#2 out of the way for a clean shot.

FACT.

Which was AFTER Prettis gun had an AD ... . SUPERFACT!

The ICE ---------- executed Pretti. Fact.

#122 - nope. never happened.
You are, as always, a liar.

As I predicted more than 10 hours ago ...

#99 And now watch as the liar tucks his tail behind his legs and do everything to try to avoid manning up and owning his lies...

... including repeating the lie, ad nauseum, despite being proven wrong.

And ...

#102 Will those that lied about this admit they were wrong?

Or will they just continue to lie?

ANSWER: They continued to lie, to wit:

#110
#111
#114
#115

Now, once again, for the liars among us:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

So, once again, for the learning impaired:

There was no "negligent discharge" (from Alex Pretti's gun, as this Reddit "video" claims to show); and,
Alex Pretti's gun never went off

As I predicted more than 10 hours ago ...

#99 And now watch as the liar tucks his tail behind his legs and do everything to try to avoid manning up and owning his lies...

... including repeating the lie, ad nauseum, despite being proven wrong.

And ...

#102 Will those that lied about this admit they were wrong?

Or will they just continue to lie?

ANSWER: They continued to lie, to wit:

#110
#111
#114
#115
NEW --> #122

Now, once again, for the liars among us:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

So, once again, for the learning impaired:

There was no "negligent discharge" (from Alex Pretti's gun, as this Reddit "video" claims to show); and,
Alex Pretti's gun never went off

#126 | POSTED BY A_FRIEND AT 2026-01-28 09:14 AM | FLAG: Lies so much he had to say it twice to hope it's believed.

#127 Flag: Actually wants us to believe him and not our lying eyes

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

#127 Flag: Is so impotent cannot disprove any of this:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

So, once again, for the learning impaired:

There was no "negligent discharge" (from Alex Pretti's gun, as this Reddit "video" claims to show); and,
Alex Pretti's gun never went off

#127 Flag: Your turn, liar

#129 POSTED BY A_FRIEND AT 2026-01-28 09:23 AM | FLAG: Lies so much he had to say it twice to hope it's believed, the. Lies two more times hoping his bull will be believed.

There's only one liar here and it's you, as you always are.

The saddest fact is, you won't believe th evidence disproving your lie right here in this article and I doubt you would believe the results of the DOJ investigation or even the Minnesota investigation all because you enjoy the warmth of your lie more than the truth.

#133 Flag: The saddest fact is, you won't believe the evidence disproving your lie right here in this article

This loser grunts out lies like pedo 47.

#131 Flag:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

Your turn, liar.

#133 Flag: The liar says, I doubt you would believe the results of the DOJ investigation...

You got that right, sweetheart:

The Donnerboy Rule:

I need two (2) independent sources** from any Trump sycophant for any 'proof' they offer before it is even considered, much less replied to.

**Any source that contains "Trump's FBI said...", or "The DOJ announced..." or "The White House proclaimed..." - or any iteration thereof - will immediately be considered not an independent source. - Try again.

The funniest part about this is, I've never voted for Trump in any of his three elections. It is possible to support and defend law enforcement without being a Trump supporter it's called "objectivity." It's a great concept.

#131 Flag: If it is, as you say, "bull," then it should be oh-so easy for you to disprove, right????:

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

Focus sweetheart.

My proof is on the table, frame-by-frame.

Disprove it, liar.

Your turn.

#139 Thanks for the continued opportunity to post the truth that seems to be your kryptonite, your sunlight to a vampire: a frame-by-frame refutation to your continuing lying

Your turn, sweetheart.

That article does nothing to disprove the AD. At all. It just assumes that the first shot fired was from the agent. It doesn't even consider or try to show whether Prettis gun had an ad that sparked the shooting. The video attached to THIS article clearly shows where the AD happened first. But because you only love the lie, you can't believe it.

As I've said. That doesn't remove the culpability of the agents. It's still not likely a legally j justified shooting. You still have to verify your threat before sending rounds down range. They clearly didn't. All the AD does is make it a whole lot less nefarious and a whole lot more a horrible senseless tragedy that could have been prevented By the disarming agent announcing the gun was secure.

#142 Flag: Proof positive the liar never watched this video (hint: it isn't an "article") **

** Thanks again for the opportunity to post actual proof it yet again

Your turn, liar.

so
Shot Fired from the agent
and
Accidental discharge
are the same thing?

Replace all your instances of "Accidental Discharge" with "Shot Fired By The Agent" and see if they still sound good to you.

Asked and disproven. Again. Are you sure your last name isn't Trump? You lie enough to be welcomed into the family

144. What do you mean? I've already said it's not legally justified. But an ad caused by a faulty gun is it the same thing as "fired by the agent" no matter how many times you say it or how much you want it to be.

Is not the same thing

(A_Friend is having the time of his life, making this liar squirm and twist and repeat his lies over and over and over again... for all the world to see!)

Carry on.

"ice doesn't have to run around and find the criminal illegals out on the street because Texas honors ice detainers."

If true, then you can name the person(s) with an ignored detainer whom ICE seeking when they killed Pretti and Good.

If lie, you don't have those names.

Tell us the names.

"I've already said it's not legally justified."

Accidents aren't legally justified?

You keep pretending there was some kind of accident or misunderstanding.

ICE disarmed this man and then gunned him down for no reason whatsoever.

Actually it shows exactly the disposition of the gun, when it was pulled from Pretti's back waistband, and when the first shot is heard. So it totally disproves your version.

#145 Flag: Thinks name calling is disproving actual facts that any thinking person can see with their own eyes **

** Again, thanks again for the opportunity to post the truth (that you've yet to disprove, frame-by-frame, despite your impotent raging).

Over to you, sweetheart.

"But an ad caused by a faulty gun"

Got any official reporting supporting your "accidental" claim and your "faulty gun" claim?

Furthermore, the only weapons that discharged belonged to ICE agents.

"find the criminal illegals out on the street"

Show us the criminal history of the people ICE is detaining.

Three out of four have no criminal record.

So, you're lying again.

You are misconstruing the problem. It is not telling ice they have an illegal alien in custody so they can allow them to place a detainer. So I guess that is my fault for not wording it properly.

If they don't report it to ICE, they can't place a detainer and take them into custody. The ICE Twitter page is rife with them showing pictures of illegals that had been released onto the streets without being told but something tells me you would say that is a "lie! They can't be trusted!"

So, you're lying again.

Does the day of the week end in "y"?

#151 Thanks, Yav.

But, be careful, you're treading into integrity and honesty terrority, something this liar has an impossible time of understanding.

But you are right-on-target:

Actually it shows exactly the disposition of the gun, when it was pulled from Pretti's back waistband, and when the first shot is heard. So it totally disproves your version.

#151 | Posted by YAV at 2026-01-28 09:51 AM

Thank you again, Yav.

"It is not telling ice they have an illegal alien in custody"

Immigration status is not a concern for Minnesota.

You no longer believe in states rights, but it's more accurate to say you never believed in states rights.

Sir, you lied when you swore your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution.

154 no. I'm not. 1/4 are criminals. Okay. So what? The law doesn't say only people here illegally with a criminal record are subject to arrest and being brought before a judge. It says EVERYONE in the country illegally.

Why, if in the course of their duties, they come across someone here illegally with no criminal record, they should ignore them? Give me a reason they shouldn't arrest them and take them in front of an immigration judge.

"The ICE Twitter page is rife with them showing pictures of illegals that had been released onto the streets"

How did ICE find these people from 2003-2025 without killing citizens?

You keep pretending nothing has changed.

Dead civilian who weren't any threat killed by ICE illegally according to you, yet nothing has changed.

"Why, if in the course of their duties, they come across someone here illegally with no criminal record, they should ignore them?"

How can we be sure they're really a citizen without checking their papers?

Cooperating with federal law enforcement in no way interferes with states rights. AND it endangers then population by placing convicted criminals on the streets that don't even belong in the country.

How can you defend that practice with a straight face?

#155 | #159 Flag: Refuses to face the truth so, naturally, tries to change the subject

"It says EVERYONE in the country illegally."

So why has ICE detained so many citizens? How is that within mission scope?

161 ... you can run their identifiers through immigration databases after running their plate to obtain them ... a then executing a traffic stop when the infraction database confirms it ...

Is called developing probable cause.

And the violent mob that is the Minnesota population are so up in arms about papers ... . They stop vehicles they suspect have ice agents in them and do what is it? Oh yeah ask for their papers.

"Cooperating with federal law enforcement in no way interferes with states rights."

Neither does it orange requests from the feds, simpleton.

I haven't changed the topic at all. I've arrest destroyed your stupid little insect and laughable frame by frame analysis by showing you one that completely sunk its premise. That you keep bringing up the lie is laughable.

The video you cited is junk.

#165 Flag: Changing subjects; refuses to admit he lied about Pretti's gun

"Is called developing probable cause."

Probable Cause is a criminal term.

Presence in the United States without a valid visa is a civil offense.

So, you're supporting criminal law enforcement approach to a civil infraction.

Why?

Why is it so important this group of people be rounded up and sent to camps?

#167 Flag: Then it should be easy to debunk, frame-by-frame, right ? ? ? ?

Tuesday, January 27, 2026 at 10:24 PM

Video: Reveals Flawed, Fatal Decisions in Shooting of Pretti

A frame-by-frame assessment of actions by Alex Pretti and the two officers who fired 10 times shows how lethal force came to be used against a man who didn't pose a threat.

I've had made mistakes and picked up us citizens. I hope every single one of them has their day in court and gets paid. But to think that any law enforcement can happen mistake free is childish.

Plus, most of the us citizens they arrest are for interfering with their operations, and I wish they would do more of that. They should all get slapped with federal felonies.

Ice has limited jurisdiction. They can only arrest us citizens while engaged in an active immigration mission ... which they meet in Minnesota so their arrests are perfect legal.

"Cooperating with federal law enforcement in no way interferes with states rights."

Neither does ignoring the feds, that should say.

If there's "forced cooperation," then there's no States Rights. There's states being coerced by the Federal Government to do the Federal Government's job.

Like when a cop says "can you do me a favor and out out that cigarette" but it's not really a request, it's a legally binding order.

Can you do me a favor and acknowledge I'm correct about the States Rights issue?

170. Yes the frame by frame shows that the first shot was an ad from prettis gun followed by shots from the agents.

That's been pointed out to you ad nauseam but you can't believe it because of your slack jawed fevered hatred of a law enforcement agency doing their job.

"But to think that any law enforcement can happen mistake free is childish."

Cab any law enforcement happen without killing innocent civilians, or is that also childish?

How many civilians did you kill in your career?

172. They should participate willingly to keep criminals off their streets that shouldn't be there. That they don't makes them failures as leaders. It also means ice has to come in and conduct a massive amount of traffic stops to find them.

You don't get to have it both ways. They don't have to cooperate, but because they didn't, this is the result they chose.

Ice has limited jurisdiction.

In what capacity?

ICE isn't even bound by the Fourth Amendment, according to their own internal secret memo.

ICE has detained hundreds of citizens mostly a nonviolent protesters, who have been released with no charges filed. Are those arrests within their limited jurisdiction?

#167 Flag: Expects people to believe a grainy, Reddit video over a clear, frame-by-frame video that everyone else understands:

Actually it shows exactly the disposition of the gun, when it was pulled from Pretti's back waistband, and when the first shot is heard. So it totally disproves your version.

#151 | Posted by YAV at 2026-01-28 09:51 AM

Back to you, lying sweetheart.

174 I never had to fire my gun except at the range in the course of my duties. Not in my nearly 37 years.

Shooting civilians sometimes is a mistake, sometimes it is not. When it is, it's failure of the officer. They should pay. No question. When it isn't, they shouldn't.

How is that difficult to understand?

"They should participate willingly to keep criminals off their streets that shouldn't be there."

ICE is the largest criminal organization operating on the streets of Minneapolis.

They've killed two citizens already.

ICE is doing what you pretend the immigrants are doing.

#178 Flag: Liar expects others to believe he was LEO - LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

177 you really love lying and being wrong. So I'm finished with disproving your incorrect assumptions and claims. It's boring. As are you. You have the IQ of toast, and it shows.

Shooting civilians sometimes is a mistake, sometimes it is not. When it is, it's failure of the officer.
#178 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

You want this to be "a few bad apples" and not the predictable outcome of a failed policy of mass intimidating and dehumanizing the people of Minneapolis.

You can't talk about the policy and the tactics being used to carry it out.

You're afraid to.

#181 Flag: Doesn't understand honesty and integrity; results to name calling because he cannot disprove the truth - frame-by-frame

Your turn liar.

You know you cannot help yourself.

Like most liars, zero self-control.

**As always, grateful to disprove your lies

"174 I never had to fire my gun except at the range in the course of my duties. Not in my nearly 37 years."

So why are you making excuses for these ICE Gestapo agents? You can't possibly believe these people have anywhere close to your level of experience and professionalism.

You know most wouldn't qualify for state police, right?

179. lol facts not in evidence. Your appeal to emotion and complete fabrication isn't even worthy of a response.

You have nothing to back up your claim there except because you just pinky swear it's true and you just really really hope everyone is as dumb as you so you can convince them to believe it.

Meanwhile you have zero evidence they are violating the 4th amendment. Zero evidence they aren't establishing pc prior to arrests. Zero evidence their traffic stops are not based on sound law. Zero understanding of what their mission entails or what the law requires.

Ice arrests those here illegally and brings them before a judge. They use standard law entire practices of developing pc and executing traffic stops to do it. You can't refute that. At all. Everything else is a smoke screen to try and hide that what they are doing is perfectly legal and that the only criminals in this equation are the violent mobs interfering with them and the criminals they arrest.

#181 Flag: Calls others "liars and wrong"; forgets others can see his lies and obfuscation clear as day

Back to you, my dear, lying sweetheart.

183 someday you might. But it hasn't been today A_Friend_of Trump.

"You have nothing to back up your claim"

What do you have to back up your claim?

"Meanwhile you have zero evidence they are violating the 4th amendment."

There's evidence.

ICE themselves states they can conduct a search from an "administrative warrant" which isn't signed by a judge.

Take two seconds and google it and educate yourself.

That's the violation.

The entire operation is predicated on violating the Constitution you lied about supporting under oath.

#188 A grainy Reddit "video," Snoofy.

The rest of us have the truth to counter his lies.

"Zero evidence they aren't establishing pc prior to arrests."

They didn't even try to arrest Good or Pretti.

They just gunned them down.

And what PC would get a citizen arrested, only to be released without being charged?

#189 If (and that's a big "if") he was ever LEO, he crossed his fingers behind his back when he took that oath.

It is what liars do.

That's not how proof works. You are claiming they aren't following the law. You have to show me where and how. The assumption is and always should be that they are, until proven otherwise. That's true with every department in America. The assumption in court is that they attending to their duties lawfully until it is proven they are not.

191. Lie. They tried to arrest ms Good when they ordered her out of the car and she failed to comply. So that's not true. And an easily disproven lie.

They tried to arrest Pretti until there was AD and they thought they were under fire ... .

"They use standard law entire practices"

Door to door searches is standard law enforcement practices?
How many door to door searches for violators of civil law in your 37 years?

Entering homes without a judge's signed warrant is standard law enforcement practices?
How many homes did you raid looking for a suspect without a signed judge's warrant did you conduct in your 37 years?

#187: Flag: Confession or projection, all day, all the time **

** when not blatantly lying, of course.

"They tried to arrest ms Good when they ordered her out of the car"

Who is "they" and what about the other "they" who ordered her to get out of here?

It's pretty obvious you think the killing of Daniel Shaver was justified so there's not much sense talking to someone who can't see. I bet you think the killing of Eric Garner and Freddie Gray and Breonna Taylor and Vicki Weaver was justified too.

My understanding is that particular weapon has a twitchy trigger,

Why on earth would a weapon that could so easily be trigger to fire be sold at all?

"The assumption is and always should be that they are, until proven otherwise."

That's ridiculous.

Why should cops get a benefit of doubt that cops don't extend to us?

Explain yourself.

#194 Flag: Continues to lie even when there's proof of his lies for all thinking people to see - and judge - for themselves

Actually it shows exactly the disposition of the gun, when it was pulled from Pretti's back waistband, and when the first shot is heard. So it totally disproves your version.

#151 | Posted by YAV at 2026-01-28 09:51 AM

Thinking people can see the truth.

Liars never will.

They tried to arrest Pretti"

What evidence do you have that there was even an attempted arrest?

189. Lie. It search warrant. I know you used that word deliberately knowing the rules are much different for search warrants than arrest warrants.

The DOJ believes they have found an exception for their administrative ARREST warrants to enter the homes of fleeing suspects ... but not in general and certainly not search warrants.

But if you have a link to search warrants being linked to administrative warrants for ICE I would be equally outraged by that.

#198 'Tis the hill on which this liar has chosen to sacrifice any and all of whatever "integrity" he may have had, Nixon.

Even now he cannot face the the truth of his lies.

So, he lies and lies some more.

199. Wait. Do you really not know that the assumption in court is ALWAYS innocent until proven guilty?

That includes le organizations accused of widespread 4th amendment violations.

Try a law class at your local Community College. It really would do wonders for you.

198. Because this is America! If corporations deny it for long enough they can make millions or billions before they have to pay out. And then they can stonewall for hopefully long enough that the plaintiff dies so they never have to pay.

"You are claiming they aren't following the law."

Aren't you claiming they didn't follow the law in killing Pretti...

You are trying desperately to paint Pretti as an isolated incident and accident.

You refuse to acknowledge how the adoption of ICE Gestapo tactics played into this event.

That's what racists do to deny systemic racism. They deny there's any system guiding ICE agents hands at all. There's not hundreds of Executive Orders directing ICE to increase violence and aggression. It's all just a series of unrelated accidents and misunderstandings and unfortunate incidents.

For someone who spent 37 years as a bureaucrat with a badge, you sure seem to want to downplay the importance of how the mission is actually carried out.

"Do you really not know that the assumption in court"

What's the assumption on the street when ICE stops brown people asks what their citizenship is and detains them if they won't answer, or in some cases even if they show Real ID?

Try to be a strong enough man to answer that question.

But if you have a link to search warrants being linked to administrative warrants for ICE I would be equally outraged by that.
#202 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Google it yourself you lazy pig.

You wouldn't believe me anyway. Bitch.

That's what I thought. You are lying about search warrants. Strong work.

Try a law class at your local Community College. It really would do wonders for you.
#204 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Try getting a donut.

"You are lying about search warrants."

No, you're too lazy to spend ten seconds educating yourself.

It's interesting that in all your expertise about the ICE mission, the basic facts are lost on you.

ICE has been using administrative warrants to enter homes without judicial warrants, which has raised significant legal and constitutional concerns. This practice has been criticized as potentially violating the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. duckduckgo.com

Still no proof I see. Just like A_FRIEND_OF_TRUMP has no proof of his idiotic claims.

213. That has NOTHING to do with search warrants. That's the DOJ claiming they can use their arrest warrant to come in and find a suspect. Not execute a search warrant.

That you don't know the difference would be laughable if it wasn't so disappointing.

Witness Drops BOMB on Trump ICE SHOOTING

www.youtube.com

213 I do appreciate the links though. I had read they were using the admin arrest warrants to gain access to homes only when pursuing a fleeing suspect that ran into their house thinking that would make them safe.

The links you provided don't indicate that, and if they are using them as blanket entry into homes that is a problem and will change my mind about the 4th amendment violations. That is walking a line I would rather they didn't. If it was used exclusively for fleeing suspects? I can live with that. Blanket entry into homes from an admin warrant? No thank you.

213. That has NOTHING to do with search warrants. That's the DOJ claiming they can use their arrest warrant to come in and find a suspect.
#215 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Entering a home to search for a suspect has nothing to do with search warrants?
This may be the dumbest thing you've said all thread.

Now, there are a few examples where a search warrant signed by a judge would not be required. For example, if police are chasing a suspect in commission of a crime and the suspect flees to their home. Police can still enter because the law enforcement engagement with the criminal suspect began outside the home. Police can enter a home without a search warrant to provide emergency aid as well.

None of these circumstances are present when ICE enters a home looking for someone on a civil immigration tort without a signed judicial warrant.

What you said is wrong, and it shows you weren't really paying attention when you swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States.

You are intellectually lazy. Most Statist are, it's why they want the State to make life easier for them.

ICE tried to enter the fccking Ecuadorian Embassy you numbskull.
DHS has a written memo "authorizing" ICE to enter homes without any judicial warrant.

"The links you provided don't indicate that, and if they are using them as blanket entry into homes that is a problem and will change my mind about the 4th amendment violation"

See if you can get it to chagne your mind about what people are protesting here.

Because it's not the fact that people think illegal immigrants should be free to roam the country.

It's the Gestapo tactics and concentration camps being built is worse than the illegal immigrants.

If you could take your head out of your pig loving ass for two minutes, we could have had this conversation yesterday.

But you're still not ready. You're still not ready to say going after illegals like they're Anne Frank is wrong.

"ICE tried to enter the fccking Ecuadorian Embassy you numbskull."

Another "misunderstanding" no doubt.
There's no excuse he won't make for the State. None.

"That is walking a line I would rather they didn't."

Okay now do stopping people in public and demanding proof of citizenship.

"Your papers, please." Does that cross a line?

"That is walking a line I would rather they didn't."

You'd rather they didn't, but what if they have no other choice?
As you said before,
"There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the mission to find people here illegally and take them before an immigration judge."
"Their job is legitimate and necessary. Their arrests lawful"

You stand by those words, I assume.
So it could still be legitimate and necessary to walk the line you'd rather they didn't have to, right?
You don't actually have a line that can't be crossed, do you?

Weasel words come out of your mouth like you've spent 37 years lying to people because it's how you did your job.

That Sig 320 is a dangerous piece of crap.

#20 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

LOL somebody read a few Reddit threads and is trying to pass themselves off as being knowledgeable.

He's a retired cop who only ever fired his weapon at cutouts of black dudes holding white women at knifepoint at the range.

OF COURSE he's a firearms expert.

218 the difference between a search and an arrest warrant are massive. A search warrant is written for contraband. You are allowed to look in any place small enough to hide what it is you're looking for. So you write it to include "receipts for items purchased in pursuit of their crimes" and now you can tear the house apart if you want to.

An arrest warrant is written for an individual. You can search only in places small enough to conceal a person. So you can't go digging in drawers and such. You can search the area immediately around anyone you come across for WEAPONS ... . And if you find contraband so be it. Also anything in plain view is fair game. But that's it.

They are very different animals and shouldn't be conflated.

He's arguing about the gun discharging because the actual reality is worse. An ICE agent that was probably trained for 47 days biffed it. So we can't blame Pretti, so now it's the guns fault.

This is MAGA. Arguing minutiae while a man lies dead in the street, executed by the private army of their cult leader.

Ah, finally figured out the story on this liar

Yes, he was LEO, but not for 37 years. Nope.

He became an LEO, but it was more than 37 years ago.

But that lasted only a few years.

Explains much about Imshakinitboss.

The difference here is an administrative (ICE) warrant and a judicial warrant.

#1 rule of MAGA: Trump is never at fault.

So we can't blame Pretti, so now it's the guns fault.

Ah! So guns DO kill people! Ban GUNS!

I wish I could say that it was a surprise that the cops that post here are pedantic and stupid. They're also bootlickers.

Miranda comes to mind.

223 100% I stand by those words. There is nothing inherently wrong or evil arresting those here illegally and taking them before an immigration judge. I still believe that. I will always give the benefit of the doubt to cops. Call me biased if you like, I don't mind. I admit it. The men and women I worked with were some of the most ethical and upright people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. Just absolutely great special agents and great Americans. My assumption is always that my cousins in other agencies are the same.

I'd like to see the numbers of how many times they have used an anon warrant to gain entry into a house where they gabby followed a suspect in hot pursuit.

I'd like to see the numbers

From the trump administration? You'd believe them?

You're a joke.

Wrong as always A_FRIEND_OF _TRUMP. I started in 1990 retired from federal service in 2023 and have had been working in state law enforcement ever since.

#234 100% Alex:

The Donnerboy Rule:

I need two (2) independent sources** from any Trump sycophant for any 'proof' they offer before it is even considered, much less replied to.

234. I didn't say that I'd like to see numbers from any credible source.

As to the actual topic of the thread.

The sig p320 had a discharge problem when dropped. There was a voluntary program in 2017 to upgrade it. It is not a "piece of crap" or they would recall every one of them.

The ICE agent looks to have discharged the gun accidentally while he was holding it, not dropping it. User error.

Ah! So guns DO kill people! Ban GUNS!

#231 | POSTED BY YAV

Are republicans suddenly admitting that the gun IS the problem?

Watch out for low flying pigs!

The ICE agent looks to have discharged the gun accidentally while he was holding it, not dropping it. User error.

Not sure where you're seeing that. Please, fill me in.

#235 Flag: Integrity (or what's left of it) completely in the sh*tter; no one believes you

But you clearly didn't bother to look at the well-placed and well-deserved links in my #228 that ridicule you.

Your turn, ostrich.

#235: Flag: Confession or projection, as always

" I will always give the benefit of the doubt to cops."
"My assumption is always that my cousins in other agencies are the same."

^
You're not just giving the benefit of doubt to the cops here.

You're giving the benefit of doubt to the Trump Administration, their tactics and strategies, including this ridiculous memo and training that ICE can enter a home without a warrant signed by a judge.

I'd like to see the numbers of how many times they have used an anon warrant to gain entry into a house where they gabby followed a suspect in hot pursuit.
#233 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

What's the magic number where it crosses a line?
Why is the number higher than zero?
Explain.

This is MAGA. Arguing minutiae while a man lies dead in the street, executed by the private army of their cult leader.

#227 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Bears repeating ... repeating ... repeating ...

YAV-

www.telegraph.co.uk

You must be his good buddy. You lie so much I can only assume you are emulating him.

I would like to be clear.

I am not making excuses for ICE executing Alex Pretti. I just think there was an accidental discharge of his gun by the agent that took it away. (because he is an idiot)

There is no excuse for Pretti being shot 10 times or more.

ou're giving the benefit of doubt to the Trump Administration, their tactics and strategies, including this ridiculous memo and training that ICE can enter a home without a warrant signed by a judge.

#243 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-01-28 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag

Complete violation of the 4th amendment.

Have fun in your-----------. Time to find bad guys.

Nope. That is not what that video shows.

Have fun in your-----------. Time to find bad guys.

#250 | Posted by Imshakinitboss at 2026-01-28 11:38 AM | Reply

Adios. Keep spitting on the oath you took, bootlicker.

Nope. That is not what that video shows.

#251 | Posted by YAV at 2026-01-28 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think that's what happened. Hey, I could be wrong.

ICE can enter a home without a warrant signed by a judge.

#243 | Posted by snoofy

Not MY home.

Not without a very loud discussion with my lawyers.

Mr Smith and Mr Wesson.

There is no discharge from the weapon. The sound you hear is from the ICE agent firing into Pretti. It's crystal clear in the video A_Friend has posted. You can hear the sound AND see the discharge. You and IMSB are assuming because you can see the weapon and hear a gunshot that it's that weapon that fired. It did not.

www.foxnews.com

The Department of Homeland Security is investigating whether U.S. Border Patrol agents thought they were being fired upon when one fatally shot Alex Pretti on a Minneapolis street over the weekend.

The New York Post reported that an accidental discharge of Pretti's Sig Sauer P320 pistol, which was being held by an agent after it was taken away from him, may have made authorities believe their lives were in danger.

Pretti, a U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs ICU nurse, who was legally permitted to carry the weapon, was fired upon around 10 times and died at the scene.

Again, I could be wrong, Yav.

Have fun in your-----------. Time to find bad guys.

POSTED BY IMSHAKINITBOSS

Obey the constitution and be true to your oath.

Follow the law and the intent of the law.

Or YOU are the "bad guy".

And remember liberals carry guns too now. We don't want to. We have to. Because you idiots want to make it the Wild West out there .. again.

Apparently.

Ok I was wrong.

www.youtube.com

The agent that shot him saw the weapon being taken away.

Have you watched the video A_Friend posted, Alexandrite?

For me it is crystal clear. The video A_Friend has posted appears to account for all gunshots that were heard and you can line up the removal of the weapon with that. The first shot you hear is before the gun is removed from Pretti. The ICE shooter's gun discharge happens first.

Also I don't care what the liars at Fox "news" are saying. They've been constantly lying. I never cite them or believe anything they post or say. Quoting DHS is more lying. New York Post is banned here for a reason.

I just watched a new video, YAV.

You were correct. My speculation was not.

The agent that shot him saw the weapon being taken away.

Exactly. Thanks so much for looking into this further. The evidence is crystal clear. Also thanks for saying you were wrong. It's perfectly fine to be wrong. The truth is what matters.

It's perfectly fine to be wrong. The truth is what matters.

#262 | POSTED BY YAV

Hey. It happens.

I remember once when I was wrong. Turns out I was right after all so I was wrong about that. -:)

Still wrong about being wrong, so...

New update:
DHS report now has removed "brandished" from the previous report and has said the only weapons discharge were the agents. First agent's weapon was a Glock 19. DHS is trying to say they shot him because someone yelled "gun! gun! gun!' as the weapon was being removed form Pretti's back waistband. At least that seems to be the inference. So best case according to DHS is their agents simply got way too excited and killed him accidentally. Yay?

The Department of Homeland Security is investigating whether U.S. Border Patrol agents thought they were being fired upon when one fatally shot Alex Pretti on a Minneapolis street over the weekend.

"Good luck on finding the "real killer" OJ!"
-Jon Stewart

Still wrong about being wrong, so...

#265 | POSTED BY HORSTNGRABEN

Yup! And..

It takes a liberal to be man enough to admit it.

Apparently.

Looks like the DHS changed their story AGAIN.

Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1

Breaking Axios:

Kristi Noem's language that Alex Pretti wanted to
"massacre" federal agents was dictated to Noem and her department by the man most responsible for the controversial operation: Stephen Miller.

That's according to four sources who spoke to Axios.

Stephen Miller Iced Out of Trump's DHS Cleanup.

www.thedailybeast.com

The comment about a "high powered" firearm also made me lol.

A 9mm is a dangerous gun, but high powered is another huge exaggeration.

He was carrying a smaller caliber handgun designed to carry but remain lethal.

And now your moment of Zen..

ICE on ice

Maybe if he had a Desert Eagle. But who wants to lug one of those around everywhere?

Not me.

But I do have a difficult time with a p365 or most of the CC firearms out there because of my hand size. The best for me so far are the Walther PDP FS series and the Canik TP9SF. Also I know how popular Glock is, but I'm not a fan of the 17 or 19. My accuracy is so much better with the Walther or Canik.

I have difficulty with baretta's. Too small for my hands.

People are not considering that this might have been a deliberate false flag operation.

Pretti might have rigged his extremely dangerous and defective gun to fire when it was pulled from his holster. This startled the super professional ICE agents, causing them to freak out and gun him down in the street. All just to make them look bad.

GOP candidate for Gov of Minnesota drops out. Says he cant support federal "retribution" against Minnesotans ...
drudge.com

^
Funny how GOP leadership can see the retrubution, but the GOP cop with 37 years experience thinks what's happening in Minnesota is just Cop Business As Usual.

@#278 - It might be that clever, but it failed when the 'defective gun' refused to fire as it was supposed to in that devious plan!

YAV- I haven't tried that one yet. I'm more of a boomstick type.

#281 - I understand, Alexandrite :)

it failed when the 'defective gun' refused to fire as it was supposed to

I saw several YouTube videos showing a Sig 320 firing itself several seconds after being unholstered. It also self-cleaned and reloaded to make it look like it never happened.

Youtube is the only place you can get the truth!
You should see what they're hiding in Antarctica!

This is huge thread... where is the video that shows the gun didn't discharge? That super interesting and important information.

The video provided by IMShaking shows Pretti's gun being removed.
You hear a gunshot.
There is no discharge from the gun that is seen in the video.

In the video A_Friend has linked you see:
Pretti on the ground.
ICE agents on him.
An ICE agent (1) moves another ICE agent (2) out of the way.
ICE agent 1 shoots Pretti. You hear the gunshot and see the discharge. It is the first gunshot you hear. It's not Pretti's gun.

*some* people were assuming that if they saw a gun and heard a gunshot that it had to be the gun they saw - ignoring that there was no discharge from that weapon and that another video and angle clearly shows the first gunshot was from the ICE officer and his Glock 19.

Hope that helps.

#185 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

LOL what a laughable pile of nonsense.

I have my trusty old .45 ACP Colt Government Model Mark IV.

It's just a good compromise all around, although I have added some bells and whistles. Not too bulky, plenty of knockdown. They're a bit slow, but I'm accurate enough with it.

That has NOTHING to do with search warrants. That's the DOJ claiming they can use their arrest warrant to come in and find a suspect. Not execute a search warrant.
That you don't know the difference would be laughable if it wasn't so disappointing.

#215 | Posted by Imshakinitboss

Nobody is claiming anything about a search warrant, dips*&^.

The facts are ICE is using an administrative warrant rationale to conduct judicial warrant actions. It's their own confirmed policy and there are multiple videos of it being implemented at residences in Minneapolis.

What more can you expect from sockpuppet #3?

There is no excuse for Pretti being shot 10 times or more.

#248 | Posted by Alexandrite

I wasn't surprised by it, honestly.

I forget the name of the phenomenon, but it's documented that in tense situations (especially with poor training IIRC), it's not uncommon for officers to react to gunfire by firing themselves even if they don't necessarily see or understand the threat. It's a psychological response to duress/stress.

there are multiple videos of it being implemented at residences in Minneapolis.
#289 | Posted by jpw

Doesn't matter, to the cop.
To the cop, they're all "Bad Guys."

Here's one of the "Bad Guys" talking about his experience.
US citizen says ICE removed him from his Minnesota home in his underwear after warrantless search

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- Federal immigration agents forced open a door and detained a U.S. citizen in his Minnesota home at gunpoint without a warrant, then led him out onto the streets in his underwear in subfreezing conditions, according to his family and videos reviewed by The Associated Press.

ChongLy "Scott" Thao told the AP that his daughter-in-law woke him up from a nap Sunday afternoon and said that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents were banging at the door of his residence in St. Paul. He told her not to open it. Masked agents then forced their way in and pointed guns at the family, yelling at them, Thao recalled.

abcnews.go.com

"it's not uncommon for officers to react to gunfire by firing themselves"

Then there was the cop who started blasting randomly because an acorn landed on the roof of his cruiser.

#275 | Posted by YAV

Same here regarding the standard compacts and microcompacts.

Everyone I talked to swore by the S&W M&P Shield 2.0. I hated it. My hands were so mismatched to the grip size I kept accidentally dropping the magazine while shooting and getting feed failures.

Obligatory: www.youtube.com (and it gets worse)

#294 - Yep. I kept trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and why I hated what others were raving about. I can't believe how well the Canik and the Walther's work for me.

This is huge thread... where is the video that shows the gun didn't discharge? That super interesting and important information.

#285 | Posted by kwrx25

There isn't one.

It's speculation based on a misunderstanding of the issues around p320s meant to lessen the horrific murder of Pretti.

(kinda nice to know someone else on the DR has the same experience!)

I've been looking into Canik. Not gonna lie, the price initially put me off a bit but after seeing a lot of reviews and such they seem really solid for a fraction of the price of comparable quality guns.

Buuuuuuuut I'm pretty sure my wife would be kinda pissed if I came home with another gun.

"where is the video that shows the gun didn't discharge?"

Your reasoning skills should inform you that if such a video existed, Republicans would have already bukkaked it.

Yep. I kept trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and why I hated what others were raving about.

When the suggested extended mag pinched the flesh of my ring finger knuckle enough to blood blister I just said f*&^ it, not for me.

Felt like it also shot like s*&^ anyway. Snappy, harsh recoil for a 9mm. Ended up being happy with the p365 xmacro comp and haven't looked back.

My grouping with the Canik was far tighter than mine with the G 17, right out of the box. First try. I was impressed.
I know what you mean on the price.
It's silly, too. It's why I lean towards the Walther overall. I think it's psychological! lol

When the suggested extended mag pinched

That's the common answer for large hands - just use the extended mag. That's a crap answer IMHO.

Not a gun person but I thought the solution was put a custom grip on the firearm, to match your hands.

I think it's psychological! lol

For sure. I see the price and I think Kahr or Taurus and nope out.

In any case, I'm pleasantly surprised to have gun talk on this site. I always thought I was an anomaly on the DR for being an active owner/shooter.

Yeah - and with a gay dude, no less. LMAO!

Not a gun person but I thought the solution was put a custom grip on the firearm, to match your hands.

#304 | Posted by snoofy

Sometimes that can help with the width. Newer gen pistols have interchangeable backstraps to give different widths from front to back depending on hand size.

Usually, the only remedy for length is extended magazines with a grip extension and, if it's a carry gun, you start to get into issues of losing concealability or comfort.

This is actually a selling point for the Sig model Pretti had. The fire control group is the serialized part, and it can be pulled and inserted into all manner of aftermarket frames for different grip sizes, widths, textures, colors ect ect.

Yeah - and with a gay dude, no less. LMAO!

#306 | Posted by YAV

I find the gun community to be far more diverse than one would expect. I feel like I've noticed (anecdotally) an uptick in trans folks using the range that I frequent and also remember an Axios (IIRC) piece covering militia movements, part of which presented the flip side of folks on the left who were organizing into armed groups to train, learn and share camaraderie with.

On the topic of a negligent discharge, I still haven't seen any video indicating that that happened.

I've had a handgun I was shooting accidentally go off in my hand when I wasn't intending to fire and I probably jumped like a motherf*&^er because it surprises the hell out of you.

There would have been something observable in the actions of the guy in the gray coat if he had accidentally fired that gun and, likely, reaction from at least a few of the agents around Pretti to the sound of the gun firing off to their side.

I always thought I was an anomaly on the DR for being an active owner/shooter.

#305 | Posted by jpw at 2026-01-28 02:42 PM | Reply

You're not.

Now let's talk about Muay Thai! ;-)

Let's have a DR range party and get some of these soy boys less afraid and ready to buy their first gun!

God, remember years ago when someone, I think it was Lisa and Briwo or Kanrei, tried to put together a DR picnic somewhere...

I would attend in secret just to see what some of these f*&^ers are like without outing myself LOL

But why wouldn't you just buy a pistol that fits your hands to begin with?

This sounds like buying a suit that's three sizes too large and trying to tailor it and hope they can make it fit.

#312 - that's pretty funny! And yeah, I remember that. I was close to going. Wowsers!

But why wouldn't you just buy a pistol that fits your hands to begin with?

Might not have a good one-size-fits-all option or the best option may not be tenable for your purpose (ie concealed carry).

With Sig, they also introduced new magazine tech (don't ask what, I don't understand it) that significantly increased capacity. When the p365 came out, the magazines could hold something like 17 rounds whereas comparably sized guns like the Glock 43 held 12. So, you might want to tweak the gun around best-in-class capacity.

A quick note and thank you for those who cited the video I posted in proving Mark, er, IMSHAKINITBOSS wrong...

... and especially Donnerboy, who rightly points out that those of us on the left side of the aisle who, when proven wrong, have enough integrity and self-worth to say, I was wrong.