What Would America Look Like Without Citizens United?
Thom Hartmann: Imagine an America where elections cost less, voters mattered more, and public policy followed an honest path ...
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A_Friend
Joined 2005/09/21Visited 2026/06/02
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Citizens United was the most destructive court decision in modern American history.[image or embed]" Jon Ossoff (@ossoff.bsky.social) 3:41 PM Jun 3, 2026
Citizens United was the most destructive court decision in modern American history.[image or embed]
Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.
snip ...
It's beyond time for some good-old-fashioned truth telling. There's a singular cancer at the core of our democracy and it shows up in dozens of ways that don't seem related to most Americans. It's tearing our country apart, paralyzed our government, and has gutted our middle class. That cancer is big and dark money in politics. The story of how we got here is fascinating and I'll get into it in a minute, but suffice it to say that fraud, lies, and corruption are at the core of every aspect of it.
That cancer is big and dark money in politics.
The story of how we got here is fascinating and I'll get into it in a minute, but suffice it to say that fraud, lies, and corruption are at the core of every aspect of it.
#1 | Posted by A_Friend at 2026-06-03 11:29 PM | Reply
Its main cause in the present moment is one of the most corrupt Supreme Court decision in history, where 5 on-the-take Republicans on the Court ruled in 2010 (Citizens United) that corporations are persons and money is the same thing as free speech. The wreckage of this decision is all around us. Without Citizens United we'd have a national healthcare system like literally every other developed country in the world. We don't because the for-profit health insurance industry (which doesn't even exist at this scale anywhere else on Earth) extracts hundreds of billions in profits from us every year and uses Citizens United's legalization of bribery to pay off legislators to maintain the status quo. Big Pharma and Big Hospital are also in on the game, and massive New York hedge funds are buying up physician practices as fast as they can nationwide, knowing that people will pay almost anything to regain their health or postpone their death. Without Citizens United we'd have high-quality public schools in every community in America.
Without Citizens United we'd have a national healthcare system like literally every other developed country in the world.
We don't because the for-profit health insurance industry (which doesn't even exist at this scale anywhere else on Earth) extracts hundreds of billions in profits from us every year and uses Citizens United's legalization of bribery to pay off legislators to maintain the status quo. Big Pharma and Big Hospital are also in on the game, and massive New York hedge funds are buying up physician practices as fast as they can nationwide, knowing that people will pay almost anything to regain their health or postpone their death.
Without Citizens United we'd have high-quality public schools in every community in America.
#2 | Posted by A_Friend at 2026-06-03 11:33 PM | Reply
LOL AMORON you've posted some whoppers, but I will say this is hilariously ignorant of why America's education "system" is collapsing.
Hint: Its not a money problem, nor is the healthcare collapse due to being short on money ....
The U.S. government spends roughly ($7,000) to ($8,000) per person annually from public tax dollars alone. This public-only spending meets or exceeds the total combined (public and private) healthcare spending of peer nations like Canada, the United Kingdom, and Australia
#3 | Posted by oneironaut at 2026-06-03 11:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1
#3 Just three (3) quick questions before we engage further:
1. Do you honestly believe that the moon landings were completely faked, and that Neil Armstrong, etc., were just actors in a warehouse made to "look" like the moon's surface? 2. Do you honestly believe that Trump won in 2020? 3. Do you honestly believe that my account is, as claimed, actually a 21 year Israeli PSYOP agent Drudge.com "veteran,"... ...and that The American Conservative "proved" that "A_Friend is actually PRO-ISRAEL PSY-OPS?
2. Do you honestly believe that Trump won in 2020?
3. Do you honestly believe that my account is, as claimed, actually a 21 year Israeli PSYOP agent Drudge.com "veteran,"...
...and that The American Conservative "proved" that "A_Friend is actually PRO-ISRAEL PSY-OPS?
Thank you.
#4 | Posted by A_Friend at 2026-06-03 11:43 PM | Reply
#3 Flag:
.
#5 | Posted by A_Friend at 2026-06-03 11:46 PM | Reply
Your Schick is getting Quite Old Mr.FRIEND.
Your Game Is Lame.
#6 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2026-06-04 09:49 AM | Reply
Citizens United was huge and its effects have been huge but I still return to Bush v Gore as the critical turning point when democracy in the United States died! A truly unelected President dragged us into an unnecessary war that divided us beyond repair. MAGA is just the latest name for the Moral Majorityand when any political group pretends that they represent "morality" we know for certain that "morality" is just another attempt to claim that God is on the side of conservatives who overruled the voters and gave George w Bush the Presidency which was clearly a signal that the ruling class was back in charge. Citizens United was just the method by which it would stay that way and the huge amounts of money used by Republicans to preserve their power shows that.
#7 | Posted by danni at 2026-06-04 10:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2
The left hates 1A. They despise it.
#8 | Posted by BellRinger at 2026-06-04 10:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1
^LMAO @#8 you ------- idiot shill.
#9 | Posted by e1g1 at 2026-06-04 10:28 AM | Reply
Our CCP shill 1IQirony above lecturing US citizens on American Education. Really.
#10 | Posted by e1g1 at 2026-06-04 10:30 AM | Reply
A truly unelected President dragged us into an unnecessary war that divided us beyond repair.
#7 | Posted by danni at 2026-06-04 10:04 AM | Reply | Flag:
Not without the democrat's approval.
#11 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2026-06-04 11:20 AM | Reply
Literally, everything Komrade Hartmann is saying would be accomplished by big money in politics.
I'm sure Komrade Lenin made many of the same predictions in 1917.
#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 11:23 AM | Reply
The left hates 1A. They despise it. #8 | Posted by BellRinger
Why limit it to the left? We didn't really have the First Amendment before Citizens United. The entirety of America's political jurisprudence hated the First Amendment, for two hundred years, before Citizens United.
But sure, it's "the left" that changed.
#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 11:27 AM | Reply
"Literally, everything Komrade Hartmann is saying would be accomplished by big money in politics."
We would still have: Russian money funding GOP candidates funneled through the NRA, without Citizens United?
#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 11:28 AM | Reply
Not without the democrat's approval. #11 | Posted by lfthndthrds
Not without Republican leadership. Why do you give the followers more credit than the leaders? Are you not satisfied with the results of Republican leadership, and hope to blame it on someone else?
#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 11:30 AM | Reply
Corporations are not people. They are artificial constructs of the state. The state has the power to create them and the state has the power to dissolve them.
Money is not speech. Money is money.
Unlimited dark money is killing democracy.
#16 | Posted by Nixon at 2026-06-04 11:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2
#14
Nope. None of that. Instead, it would be like Thom Hartmann said. Politicians promising to use Paul's money to pay Peter's bills.
There is no taking money out of politics. What do you think you're progressive kin are doing when they pledge to take money from the rich to give to the less rich?
#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 11:41 AM | Reply
But, according to Coriolanus, the problem is the Jews. #2 | Posted by A_Friend at 2026-06-03 11:33 PM | FLAG MEH
I don't think so... the problem is Israel... which happens to have an organized crime network inserting noxious tendrils into the worldwide Jewish community... giving them a bad name... It's unfortunate... like "acting" ghetto (ironic no?) gives black people a bad name... or Trumpanzees give conservatrons a bad name... ect..
Then there is all that goes with organized crime... Just like the Mafia ... where the Italians take a lot of heat... you get the sex traffickers like Epstein and his ties to Israel... or the opium traffickers like the Sacklers... and their ties to Israel... It's not the first time Jewish organized crime got ugly... a major component of US "anti-semitism" pre WW2 was the Jazz and Junkie culture that thrived in Jewish establishments... and beyond... all through the Rust Belt... Purple Gangers. Many crime fighters thought Hitler had the right idea... hence the foot-dragging to engage with Hitler
I think Israel was a solution for a lot of people... but frankly... how Israel has managed to bilk billions of US taxpayers' dollars... to prevent.. pay restitution...whatever... while undermining us... and once again cornering us into a war to solve their proeblems... is nothing short of criminal... now the same criminal organizations that have screwed the pooch for the average person ... Jews included... the average persons are the collateral damage.
I know there are plenty of other groups with their Organized criminals...I'm just saying ... Israel is not innocent
#18 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2026-06-04 11:42 AM | Reply
I don't think so... the problem is Israel #18 | Posted by RightisTrite
NW
#19 | Posted by Dbt2 at 2026-06-04 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2
I've not seen a trace of anti-Semitism in Coriolanus's posts.
#20 | Posted by Dbt2 at 2026-06-04 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3
There is no taking money out of politics. #17 | Posted by madbomber
Oh? Tell us how much money is spend on an election cycle in Germany, compared to United States. Now explain the difference.
#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:02 PM | Reply
Why do you give the followers more credit than the leaders?
#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 11:30 AM | Reply | Flag:
LMAO Hillary is one of the "followers" who voted for the IRAQ war.. And you clowns voted for her to "lead" the country.
#22 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2026-06-04 12:04 PM | Reply
I agree in that we would be better off without citizens united.
But I don't agree any of those things would have happened if CU hadn't been enacted.
None of those things were in place prior to CU.
#23 | Posted by eberly at 2026-06-04 12:05 PM | Reply
"40,000 pro-Israel online operatives and cyber-stalkers target Americans 24/7 with PSYOP."
#24 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 12:06 PM | Reply
Hillary is one of the "followers" who voted for the IRAQ war.. #22 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTURDS
Hillary voting for a war seems to be your justification for anything republicans do.
I'm not sure what that woman did to you 23 years ago, but she really ------- broke you.
#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 12:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
#22 | Posted by lfthndthrds
Not to give Hillary a pass but the "followers" were voting based on the intelligence they were given at the time. We found out later how much was fabricated by the "leaders".
#26 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2026-06-04 12:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
Hartmann is arguing all of that would have happened in the last 16 years?
#27 | Posted by eberly at 2026-06-04 12:10 PM | Reply
And You're With Her on that vote. So what's your point?
#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:12 PM | Reply
LMAO Hillary is one of the "followers" who voted for the IRAQ war.. And you clowns voted for her to "lead" the country. #22 | Posted by lfthndthrds
Trump supported that war too. Said so on Howard Stern. So again, what's the distinction you're trying to make here?
#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:13 PM | Reply
Trump is a pedophile warmonger who is rife with fraud and corruption. He's literally destroying America economically, financially, domestically, internationally. Unemployment is increasing, inflation is increasing, the price of food and gas is increasing.
23 years ago BushJr lied America into a war and Hillary voted for it.
Apparently Hillary voting for the war is the worst action ever taken.
Because Turds is still crying about the smell in his underwear.
#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 12:14 PM | Reply
You want to know the difference between the Iraq war and the Iran war?
America was able to sell the Iraq war as a success.
Iran has proven how inept, incompetent, impotent, immoral and idiotic the Trump administration is.
#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 12:17 PM | Reply
Billionaires are the problem. Do you want to argue that Billionaires aren't people? NGOs and Unions are also part of the problem, you going to fix that loophole too?
#32 | Posted by visitor_ at 2026-06-04 12:18 PM | Reply
Billionaires are the problem.
You voted for one. Trump has made billions as president off crypto scams.
I say YOU are the problem for enabling this behavior.
#33 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2026-06-04 12:21 PM | Reply
Coriolanus' four favorite political leaders: Three Jews and One Muslim
#34 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 12:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2
"Tell us how much money is spend on an election cycle in Germany, compared to United States."
The difference is in Germany that politicians are not trying to buy off voters with taxpayer dollars. Which is why people like you are so against a VAT. Because it doesn't create a condition where with rich pay for the less rich.
#35 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 12:31 PM | Reply
Billionaires are the problem
One has to wonder how you were able to get your head out of Trump's ass for long enough to post this.
#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 12:32 PM | Reply
-Billionaires are the problem
And they were very involved in politics since way before CU.
3 Kennedys and 3 Bushes have run for president in the last 70 years.
And going back 200 years.....the wealthy class in this country would get together with their cigars and fine whiskey and pick our candidates.
Again, CU made it worse....but let's not pretend what was going on prior to CU.
And for the love of mike....let's not pretend that list Hartmann wrote is even remotely true. We would like for it to be true.......but it's crap.
#37 | Posted by eberly at 2026-06-04 12:33 PM | Reply
Billionaires are the problem. Do you want to argue that Billionaires aren't people? NGOs and Unions are also part of the problem, you going to fix that loophole too? #32 | Posted by visitor_
How much of the problem is billionaires, and how much is NGOs and Unions?
Is that like a fifty-fifty in your mind? Because more like a 20:1 advantage for the rich, in the real world.
Do you disagree, or do you no allow yourself to think about it?
#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
"NGOs and Unions are also part of the problem, you going to fix that loophole too"
Great question.
I wonder if our progressive friends would want to end Union contributions to political campaigns. I wonder if Thom Hartmann would support that?
#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 12:36 PM | Reply
That loophole? That's the same loophole. You're giving the same energy as:
"You couldn't possibly want the full release of the Epstein Files, what if there are some Democrat names in there!"
We want the Democrat predators to be named, just the same as the Republicans, independents, and the foreigners.
That's the easiest, most easily understandable difference between Democrats and Republicans right now.
#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:42 PM | Reply
Coriolanus' three worst political leaders:
Dummkopf Trumpf- Satanist Vladimir Putin- Orthodox Christian Benjamin Netanyahu- Jew
All three miscreants are either indicted or convicted criminals and blasphemers who should be tried and convicted at the ICC for causing so much misery or death to Palestinians, Ukrainians, and vulnerable people in Amerikkka.
#41 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 12:45 PM | Reply
"Coriolanus' three worst political leaders:"
Really?
You're saying the Ayatollah is better than these three?
I wonder if Iran shares that opinion.?
Also, no mention of Kim Jong-Un. His religion is socialism.
#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 12:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1
"You're saying the Ayatollah is better than these three?"
Didn't we blow him up?
#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:58 PM | Reply
Also, no mention of Kim Jong-Un. His religion is socialism. #42 | Posted by madbomber
That's not true at all. North Korea's religion is Juche, and it's a very similar religion to #MAGA.
#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 12:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1
"You're saying the Ayatollah is better than these three?""
Madbomber needs a slightly-brown Muslim in a robe and turban in his top 3 evil men list in order to feel validated. Three white boomers in suits with bad hairdos doesn't cut it.
#45 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2026-06-04 01:07 PM | Reply
#20 | Posted by Dbt2 at 2026-06-04 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1
Thank you for pointing this out, but methinks you're wasting your time arguing with that anonymous identity.
21 years on drudge.com has given the account holders experience.
Who knows how many interchangeable trolls have used that account since 21 Sep 2005?
Maybe one AIPAC-er, maybe three, who knows?
#46 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 01:08 PM | Reply
The trolls are bored today. Out they come wasting everyone's time. Like whack-a mole.
#47 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 01:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1
"Argh! Stupid Ayatollah uh, whatever, making sure 95% of Iranians have universal healthcare! Blargh! Only Germans and Israelis should have universal healthcare! Pfargh!"
#48 | Posted by C0RI0LANUS at 2026-06-04 01:18 PM | Reply
Hillary voting for a war seems to be your justification for anything republicans do. I'm not sure what that woman did to you 23 years ago, but she really ------- broke you.
#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:
And that's all you have to justify that bitch wanting to go to war just as bad as every other republican and democrat who voted for it. It was not only a resource war, but it was also an exercise in self-enrichment through the grifting in the MIC.
Keep voting the way you want, but you need to put the sauce down when it comes to purifying that snake.
#49 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2026-06-04 01:22 PM | Reply
... that bitch wanting to go to war just as bad as every other republican ... #49 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTURDS
So, Hillary, who you hate, is just as bad as Republicans, who you blindly vote for and support.
That's some serious MAGA logic right there.
MAGA would be nothing without hypocrisy.
#50 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 01:27 PM | Reply
Is your problem with the Iraq war that BushJr got Congress to approve it.
Whereas Trump attacked Iran because Netanyahu told him to?
#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2026-06-04 01:32 PM | Reply
that bitch wanting to go to war just as bad as every other republican ... #49 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTURDS
You voted for the Republican. So that's not exactly a meaningful criticism of Clinton.
#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2026-06-04 01:46 PM | Reply
So, this is where "the moneyed" would take us.
In a better world you still have no authority.
Children learn and dispise the intentional poverty.
Which ones will survive these sociopaths?
Only those most capable.
This is Sparta, after all.
#53 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2026-06-04 02:01 PM | Reply
Despise, even. Man.
#54 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2026-06-04 02:29 PM | Reply
Also, children would not be held in detention and served maggots three meals a day.
You Republicans are hopelessly sick. Gag on your own bile and remember me as pain.
#55 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2026-06-04 02:33 PM | Reply
Citizens United was a terrible ruling that gave monied oligarchs and corporation FAR too much political power. It's interesting that here on DR, many of those who decry their perception of government corruption among liberals will show up here to defend this ruling. But on threads discussing the actual crony corruption of the Trump regime and MAGA they will often be completely absent. Where would they be without hypocrisy?
#56 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2026-06-04 02:38 PM | Reply
The Campaign Finance System Americans Could Have Had
www.brennancenter.org
More than Combating Corruption: The Other Benefits of Public Financing
Least Corrupt Countries 2026
worldpopulationreview.com
(scroll down for very unsurprising list)
#57 | Posted by Corky at 2026-06-04 02:44 PM | Reply
"Didn't we blow him up?"
Missing a limb or two, but still within this mortal coil.
#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 03:00 PM | Reply
"North Korea's religion is Juche, and it's a very similar religion to #MAGA"
True dat.
Trump is, economically, the most left-wing president evah. He's a modern-day Huey Long.
#59 | Posted by madbomber at 2026-06-04 03:02 PM | Reply
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