Advertisement

Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, February 17, 2024

The U.S. Constitution doesn't mention Christianity or any specific religion.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

More from the article...

... Such views are especially strong among Republicans and their white evangelical base. Already such views are being voiced by supporters of Donald Trump amid his bid to recapture the presidency.

The idea of a Christian America means different things to different people. Pollsters have found a wide circle of Americans who hold general God-and-country sentiments.

But within that is a smaller, hardcore group who also check other boxes in surveys -- such as that the U.S. Constitution was inspired by God and that the federal government should declare the U.S. a Christian nation, advocate Christian values or stop enforcing the separation of church and state. ...


#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-02-17 03:19 PM | Reply

Many also believe that the world is flat.

#2 | Posted by qcp at 2024-02-17 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

The founders were Deists.

Belief in God based on reason rather than revelation or the teaching of any specific religion is known as deism.

Deism is a philosophical and theological position that rejects revelation as a source of divine knowledge. Deists believe in a higher power or supreme being, an afterlife, and the authority of human reason over divine revelation. They also believe that God created the world and left it to operate under natural laws.
Deism values human reason and the scientific method, and rejects the Bible as the revealed word of God. Deist theology doesn't allow for miracles, and considers biblical references to miracles to be myths.

In fact, it was likely their own "faith" that led them to this conclusion. Many of the founding fathers"Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe"practiced a faith called Deism. Deism is a philosophical belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems.

www.americanprogress.org

#3 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-02-17 05:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

Had the founders wanted a Christian nation.

They would have made America a Christian nation.

They were clear about wanting America to be a secular nation.

By including the separation of church and state.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-02-17 05:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

"Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man ... living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money."

George Carlin

#5 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2024-02-17 05:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#4...
You might wish to add one more line:

...'Burma Shave'.

#6 | Posted by Wardog at 2024-02-17 06:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

If they wanted a Christian nation then they would've repudiated the racial element of slavery as practiced in the New World.

#7 | Posted by ExpectingReign at 2024-02-17 06:11 PM | Reply

SOMEBODYELSE @ #5

At one time Christians also believed that Heaven was located just above the clouds.

Then somebody invented a machine that could fly and went up there to take a look around. There was no Heaven.

So the Christians moved Heaven to someplace else in the stratosphere where nobody could find it.

Then somebody invented another kind of flying machine that could see the whole universe so the Christians moved it again. Now nobody knows where Heaven is.

#8 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-02-17 06:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This is an interesting story...

www.newyorker.com

In one section, a famous atheist is dying, and his friend, a famous scientist; both a Darwinist and a Christian, I would say near-Deist, as he believed in both reason and revelation... comes to Christopher Hitchens's home and plays piano for him.

#9 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-17 06:37 PM | Reply

Being a good person has nothing to do with religion.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-17 06:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Many believe god actually exists.

As that proves, belief in something means nothing.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2024-02-17 06:45 PM | Reply

Christians are so stupid they believe in Christianity.

#12 | Posted by zarnon at 2024-02-17 06:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#11 ... Many believe god actually exists. ...

Is there a God?

Maybe, but tha may depend upon how is "god" defined?

Is God, to quote Jethro Tull, someone you have to wind-up on Sundays?

Is there some manner of supreme intelligence that looks at our vast, and still mostly unexplored, niverse as some plaything? I wish I knew.

The current religions seem to have been created back in a time when science was all but non-existent.

Time travel back to the times of Christ, and light a match. Would you be considered a god?


Was religion created in an attempt to explain the unexplainable of the time? With those who could offer the best explanations being elevated to priesthood, not because they knew but because they could tell a great story?

I wish I knew....


#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-02-17 06:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The founding fathers weren't keen on making America a Christian nation because they had seen the trouble being a Christian nation had caused in Britain. Not only did England have a king to contend with, but it also had competing factions of Christianity to deal with. The founding fathers looked at all that hierarchical authority controlling the country and said, no, thanks.

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-02-17 06:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Religion is a control issue. A belief in a higher power (personally I prefer Karma) helps keep a conscience person from stepping over the line, should they be so tempted from time to time.

It's based on a fear of retribution ~ or God's wrath, so they tell it.

Actually, if you boil it down to just the Ten Commandments, those are some pretty good rules to follow. So I don't knock all of religion. Just the fanatics who believe the Devil is some guy with goat horns, wearing red leotards and carrying a pitchfork.

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-02-17 07:26 PM | Reply

@#15 ... It's based on a fear of retribution ...

Yep.

That is one thing I had trouble understanding, and why the Catholic nuns in "release time' back in elementary school used to rap my knuckles with a wooden paddle.

I would ask, ~if God loves me, why does He want me to burn in hell?~

They didn't like that question. A whack on the knuckles was their response.

OK, that and the cannibalism of the Catholic religion. A Priest would offer me to eat the "body and blood of our Savior."

Yeah, I wasn't into cannibalism back then (or now!).

OK, so that's two things.


#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-02-17 07:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Many rely on group thinking (aka following and not thinking) to solve problems. Religion is a joke that is not funny.

#17 | Posted by Brennnn at 2024-02-17 08:35 PM | Reply

Define many.

#18 | Posted by bat4255 at 2024-02-17 08:49 PM | Reply

Catholic schools use raps on the knuckles as "conditioning."

You may as well put a rubber band on your wrist and "snap" yourself painfully every time you have an impure thought. Same difference.

A friend of mine who went to a Catholic boys school in Northern Ireland is still psychologically damaged by the "conditioning" he suffered as a young boy.

#19 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-02-17 10:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Christians invent new beliefs about america just like they invent new beliefs about christianity, all in the name of justifying their hatred and cruelty.

#20 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-02-18 12:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#19 ... snap" yourself painfully every time you have an impure thought. Same difference. ...

Yeah, there was that.

And also the forced cannibalism that I objected to.


The local Catholic Church, had so much power in the local community that my parents felt helpless to challenge it.

Tubes - What Do You Want From Life? (1975)
www.youtube.com



#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-02-18 01:08 AM | Reply

Well the founders clearly wanted American to be a white nation, with total domination by rich males. Today, women vote, and there were the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Acts...
When they talk about founder thoughts on Christianity, what they are really saying is "segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever...".

#22 | Posted by Hughmass at 2024-02-18 06:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

It is simple. Your idea of Heaven, and my idea of Heaven are no where near close to being the same. So how could such a place exist? Someone will not be happy in Heaven because its not right for them. So now how many people were born? Are to be born? That will make a lot of people not happy in Heaven, it just isn't possible.

#23 | Posted by FLMason at 2024-02-18 11:49 AM | Reply

Many rely on group thinking (aka following and not thinking) to solve problems. Religion is a joke that is not funny.

#17 | POSTED BY BRENNNN AT 2024-02-17 08:35 PM | FLAG:

Define many.

#18 | POSTED BY BAT4255

Humans are primates and primates are very social creatures. They are very much affected by and pressured by others to conform with their peers in a group.

It's very difficult and requires special "skills" (like not being afraid to be alone with your own thoughts) to resist social pressures. If you are not constantly being loved by the group it's too depressing for some humans to stand. So they conform to get that love.

If everyone in your group worships a particular deity it is very difficult for any individual raised in that group to overcome the pressures of that and think for themselves and to decide to be different from the group. The group will cast you out.

In some societies even today they can kill you (or throw you off a roof) for that.

#24 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-18 01:20 PM | Reply

"Your idea of Heaven, and my idea of Heaven are no where near close to being the same. So how could such a place exist?"

I am not defending the idea of heaven as I think it's not likely (at least not the Christian version) and I would NOT wish to spend eternity there with some so called Christians. That would surely be hell for me.

But infinity is an interesting concept. If there are an infinite number of universes then it seems to me that anything is possible. Somewhere. Sometime. Even a universe or dimension some would call Heaven. Though I would imagine in that scenario we don't all go to the same Heaven when we die.

But I think we don't have a clue yet as to what happens to us when we die ... we are still looking at "it" all wrong. Kinda like we thought for thousands of years that the sun revolved around the earth.

But when we finally figured it out the whole universe looked suddenly different.

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-18 01:33 PM | Reply

#25 | Posted by donnerboy

We heard far more about Hell than Heaven in the evangelical church I grew up in. It's mostly a construction that followed the publication of Dante's Inferno. The Church saw a golden opportunity to keep their members in fear. Hell, they didn't even allow masses in native languages until the 1960's, so cunning were they.

Lately, I'm leaning towards "parallel universes." Energy is energy. Experiments weighing people at the moment of death evidence there is something that leaves us at the moment of death.

Anything is possible. I learned long ago to never say never. Honestly, I'll be excited to see what's next when I draw my last breath. Not that I want it to happen sooner than later. But I do think there's more to us than skin and bones.

Dr. Eban Alexander, a former agnostic and neurosurgeon, wrote about what happened while he lay in a hospital bed, every cortex of his brain shut down, eliminating the possibility of some chemical or neurological cause for his experience.

#26 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-02-18 02:37 PM | Reply

I've always said evangelicals are just one usually ignored messiah away from the Taliban.
No wonder the GOP supports Hamas and Iran.

#27 | Posted by northguy3 at 2024-02-18 02:40 PM | Reply

So ironic that so many of the original Founders who wanted a Xtian America also want the right to own slaves be enshrined in the Constitution.

#28 | Posted by moder8 at 2024-02-18 02:43 PM | Reply

Not that ironic. Jesus offers plenty of good advice for slaves. Easy to make the case that Jesus was okay with slavery.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-18 02:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Jefferson Bible cuts out all the magic tricks (water into wine, raising the dead, etc) performed by Jesus.

www.smithsonianmag.com

#30 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2024-02-19 05:11 AM | Reply

Governments run by religion are some the most repressive regimes on earth (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, etc).

It was clear in the founders writing that they wanted a secular nation where the state is free from the dogma of religion in governing.

#31 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-02-19 06:58 AM | Reply

He loves you and he needs money

The same morons that fork over money to GAWD also freely fork over money to a supposed billionaire.

#32 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-02-19 07:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Many Believe the Founders Wanted a Christian America"

They should educate themselves.
They should go read Common Sense by Thomas Paine.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-19 09:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its MORALS and DOGMA by ALBERT PIKE Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry

#34 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 03:19 PM | Reply

"The Masonic Hall of Fame: Extraordinary Freemasons in American History,"

Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Prince Hall
Meriwether Lewis and William Clark
Mark -----
Harry Truman
John Lejeune
Irving Berlin
John Glenn
John Lewis

#35 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 03:22 PM | Reply

https://www.routeyou.com en-us route view 92988 walking-route masonic-pentagram-walk-of-washington
Masonic Pentagram Walk of Washington - Walking route
Nov 30, 2022The architect, Pierre Charles L'Enfante, who was a Freemason, laid out Governmental Center of Washington, D.C., in 1791. The top of the (upside-down) pentagram brings you to the White House. The route brings you along

#36 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 03:26 PM | Reply

Lucifer is Prometheus, and also Jesus

New Living Translation
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star."

#37 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 03:29 PM | Reply

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the
"agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The
war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism
(the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other.
Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the
point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion ... We shall unleash the
Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror
will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most
bloody turmoil.
Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of
revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned
with christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction,
anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light
through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public
view.
This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the
destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

#38 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 03:33 PM | Reply

spam

#39 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2024-02-19 03:50 PM | Reply

Personally, I'm terrified of the existence of ----.

Not so much because I might wind up there, but if I do, I'll have to spend Eternity with much of today's GOP and you-know-who.

#40 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-19 04:19 PM | Reply

#38

debunked in 3 minutes

"For those of you out there who had never even heard of this whole Pike letter foolishness, I almost feel sorry for bringing it to your attention. But Melanson's dissection of the story is valuable as a case study in how to track down the source of questionable information, so perhaps it is worth it.

All I know is: World War III is a subject worthy of further inquiry; Pike's supposed prediction of it is not."

https://peakd.com/history/@corbettreport/no-albert-pike-did-not-predict-wwiii

you are turning out to be quite the waste of time

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 05:36 PM | Reply

search "No, Albert Pike Did NOT Predict WWIII"

as above link may not werk

or just go to the original debunking here

www.conspiracyarchive.com

#42 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 05:40 PM | Reply

Debunk in one hand and ---- in the other

#43 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:15 PM | Reply

It's happening and you can't stop it, or even see it coming

#44 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:16 PM | Reply

*43

You just feel like I have you in the other hand.

But really, that's the Invisible Hand of the Market:

"Through individual self-interest and freedom of production and consumption, the best interest of society, as a whole, are fulfilled."

Also debunked.

#45 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:20 PM | Reply

I came to them, the freemasons, to condemn, but I saw their tents in order so now I know. They're right. Lucifer is lord.
Don't confuse Lucifer with Satan; the synagogue of Satan is scheduled for destruction.

Revelation 2:9 " I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Satan is an Egregore created by exclusive selfish interest. Mammon.

Acts 7:43 King James Version 43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon

#46 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:21 PM | Reply

#44

A declarative statement in lieu of an argument?

Well, if it's all ya got, it's all ya got.

What's that next handle of your going to be?

Mao say Nada?

#47 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:22 PM | Reply

#46

Random quotes are now an argument?

The standards around here have gone way South.

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:24 PM | Reply

Watch as the zionist state and the moslem world destroy each other, and all the other nations are exhausted.
Then say 'debunked!' again.
It's happening soon. they expect one of us in the wreckage, brother.

#49 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:28 PM | Reply

What's that next handle of your going to be?

Hilarious.

#50 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:29 PM | Reply

Can you 'debunk' that America was founded by freemasons?
That DC is laid out in a pentagram?
That the Pentagon is a temple of war?
That the Bright Morning Star is Lucifer and also Jesus?

#51 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:34 PM | Reply

#49 |

More declarations sans any evidence.

50

You brought it up previously.

But on second thought, you aren't bright enough to be Mao. Sorry.

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:35 PM | Reply

Debunk that the line between good and evil runs through every heart.

#53 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:37 PM | Reply

- That the Bright Morning Star is Lucifer and also Jesus?

They are not the same... at all.

"In brief/general - the Morning Star, or "Day Star" refers to the Planet Venus in the Sky. There are two views of this celestial body and it's symbolism presented in the Word (one before Christ is lifted up as Mediator, and one after Christ is lifted up as Mediator);

Before the Mediator; In relation to the light of the Sun, the Day Star, or Light Bringer, refers to the Planet Venus trying to reach up to the Sun, or trying to light up the morning Sky of it's own light.

This refers to the pride of the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14, for example, who captured all the treasures of God's Kingdom, but accredited his glory to himself - i.e. the height of pride trying to reach up to Heaven.

This is an incorrect view of how things actually are and is an image of the height of pride (the falsification of truth to justify evil).

After the Mediator, Jesus Christ is lifted up as the Bright and Morning Star - the understanding is corrected (or made known again) - as the Spirit of the Father works through the Son to shine down on the Earth.

This shows the correct orientation, that the Planet Venus does not have it's own light, but that the light of the Sun shines off the surfaces of Venus, making it bright, and a source of dawning light.

As Peter writes in 2 Peter 1:19;

We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts."

.
that's an old, but accurate enough description to get you on track... if that's where you want to be

#54 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:41 PM | Reply

JFC Corky your debunk is based on 'we know it was a demon'. In reality we know it was a demon. Nice debunk there.

"...One message that Albert Pike received from his "spirit guide," and which in reality we know to be a demonic vision, ..."

#55 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:42 PM | Reply

"The line between good and evil runs not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either " but right through every human heart."

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

And your point is?

#56 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:44 PM | Reply

Who gave up their place of comfort and suffered for their love of man?

a)Jesus
b)Prometheus
c)Lucifer
d)All of the above

#57 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Who is the Light-Bearer?

Please don't say "Venus".

#58 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-19 09:48 PM | Reply

#55

You might notice that "spirit guide" is in quotes, ie; not take seriously, and that "demonic" is not describing the source of the visions, but their nature.

Reading is your friend, don't fight it.

#59 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:50 PM | Reply

I'm pretty sure I don't have the time or the inclination to correct all of your misconceptions; your questions are both tedious and self-serving, and ignore what you've already been given.

#60 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:52 PM | Reply

I will say, that many sayings do not mean what people think they mean.... for example:

bigthink.com

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 09:55 PM | Reply

Christian America could mean a lot of things...

It's the kind of Christian America that's okay with slavery, isn't it.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-19 09:57 PM | Reply

This thread is worse than argument over whether Wolverine could beat up the hulk. And as based in reality

#63 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-02-19 10:02 PM | Reply

At one time Christian America meant much of the leadership and members of the Abolitionist Movement and the Underground Railroad.

#64 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-20 10:49 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2024 World Readable

Drudge Retort