A Delusional Emperor Trump Fiddles While LA Burns

Looking at the map, we could be looking at a magnitude or more worse disaster than the incredible destruction we have seen.

www.fire.ca.gov

The Palisades fire has moved north and is approaching an urban area with multitudes more people/houses etc.

Apparently, the Santa Ana winds turned northerly and easterly since yesterday and if that happens and it pushes the fires over the mountains, just wow.

And I wonder how Trump is going to react to the fact that both Canada and Mexico has been supplying hardware and manpower to help fight the fires in Los Angeles.

OCU

Rofl, the man isn't even in charge yet. But he certainly will be here soon and as I mentioned elsewhere I foresee strings being attached to any disaster relief. But right now is the perfect time for Newsom to implement Calexit like he was mouthing off about the last time Trump came into office.

Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-01-11 10:28 PM | Repl

There should NEVER be strings attached to any disaster relief. None whatsoever

If this were an earthquake I'd certainly agree. However, Republicans have warned California leadership to get their act together in regard to fires and they're about to find out just how serious Republicans were and are on that matter.

I'm sure Republicans will compassionately offer $750 to everyone who was impacted no strings attached just like Biden and Harris did to those in Florida, Georgia, and the Carolinas. I'm sure that'll cover it.

Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-01-11 11:25 PM | Reply

Republicans haven't cared about California or the wildfires for a long time. It's been the science community that has cared however. Then when presented with the problem morons like Trump declare that the area will get cooler and that raking the forest floors would solve this issue. They are ignorant saps to be sure.

Trump has a lengthy record on recommendations to Newsom about how to properly address the fire issue. This will lie at Newsom's feet when it's all said and done. Unless he does an about face it's over for him nationally.

Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-01-11 11:46 PM | Reply

Trump doesn't have the knowledge necessary to understand fire mitigation you ignorant buffoon. Get real. He's an idiot that you voted for. I should feel sorry for you but I don't.

www.politico.com

Trump's suggestions have prompted head-scratching from experts who say his prescriptions " more raking, less water released into the ocean for environmental purposes " suggest he does not understand the science of wildfires. Critics also point out that most of California's wildlands are federally managed.

Yeah that's common sense, store excess water in Dams instead of destroying dams and dumping it into the ocean (both of what Newsom and the corrupt legislature have done). Get a grip moron.

Only 2% of the lands in California are under the control of Sacramento. 48% is privately owned and 50% is the responsibility of the federal government.

OCU

Yeah that's common sense, store excess water in Dams instead of destroying dams and dumping it into the ocean (both of what Newsom and the corrupt legislature have done). Get a grip moron.

#13 | Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-01-12 12:21 AM | FLAG EYE ROLL

Where and how do you propose they build the dams?

uh yeah... that's what I figured... moron

try putting bleach in your veins... you fekkin expert

Right ... here is one example of Newsom being an idiot on the exact subject you're challenging me on.

apnews.com

Flashback to 2020:
CA official: "If we ignore the science and put our head in the sand... we're not going to succeed together protecting Californians."
Trump: "It'll start getting cooler. You just watch."
"I wish science agreed with you."
Trump: "I don't think science knows, actually."

bsky.app

Putin's bitch said California shouldn't worry because it was going to start getting cooler. Then again, he's the 300 lb sack of dementia who claimed 15 Covid cases would soon go down to 0 before letting 1.2 million Americans choke out.

@governor.ca.gov just launched a new site to ensure the public has access to fact-based data around the Southern California wildfires.

California Fire Facts

gavinnewsom.com

here is one example of Newsom being an idiot

#16 | Posted by Bluewaffles

Come on. You're MAGA. Idiocy doesn't matter to you.

The next four Donald years will be like the last four Donald years: MAGA holding everyone else up to standards they have contempt for.

Trump will continue to blame Newsom because he wants to deflect from any conversation about climate change. Bottom line though is that as the forest fires, droughts, floods and hurricanes increase in intensity, it will be more and more difficult for state and local officials to prepare for and recover from their devastating effects.

Gal ... it's definitely the climate change and not the homeless bums up in the hills setting fires to stay warm that's causing all of this. Or the arsonists that have been apprehended starting other fires. I know you hang around X and have seen the videos. You're smarter than that so quit preaching bs.

As for you Zed, the only thing that's most likely going to happen to you the next four years are excessive therapy bills.

Arsonists may start the fires, but they burn as intensiviely and extensively as they do due to climate change. This is not an either/or option but a both/and reality.

PS I no longer hang out on X.

As seen on the internets:

How sad it must be believing scientists, scholars, historians, economists and journalists have devoted their entire lives to deceiving you, while a reality tv star with decades of fraud and exhaustively documented lying is your only beacon of truth and honesty.

it's definitely the climate change and not the homeless bums up in the hills setting fires to stay warm that's causing all of this. Or the arsonists that have been apprehended starting fires

#16 | Posted by Bluewaffles

It's definitely whatever started the fires and climate change.

Idiot.

#18 That's funny. Do you know what and who Newsom was blaming yesterday for the failures before, during and after the fires? Old Gavin became Harris 2.0 overnight. Congrats on being one of the last DR left wingnut sheep to hop on the BSKY train. It doesn't count, unless you delete your X account by the way.

An expert on X who claims to have never had an account. Truly Trumpian.

Current administration is responsible for aid to LA, not Trump, but you libbie dems cannot get him out of your heads.

Logically explain how a bum starting a fire in the hills is due to climate change.

The point of this op-ed is that the coming Trump 2.0 policy on climate change is going to exacerbate the effects of climate related natural disasters, which should concern all Americans.

Current administration is responsible for aid to LA, not Trump

#28 | Posted by MSgt

The next Administration will behave as if it's responsible for nothing.

The worse it gets, the less responsible it will behave.

Gee, I wish that I had four previous years with Donald to support that prediction.

Oh, wait....

Logically explain how a bum starting a fire in the hills is due to climate change.
#29 | Posted by Bluewaffles

LOL And here I thought you were smarter than to trot out that logical fallacy reasoning in the midst of this discussion.

Logically explain how a bum starting a fire in the hills is due to climate change.

#29 | Posted by Bluewaffles

Climate change creates the conditions that make any fire grow so big.

I can be logical all day long but it will never defeat your lack of education.

Not you Zed, you've already demonstrated through previous posts you need psychological assistance. Again enjoy those therapy bills.

Gal, no you're trying to create a link between homeless people starting fires on windy days and linking it to ClImAtE ChAnGe. You take it a step further and completely bypass the fact that Biden is still in office and it along with many other preventable disasters too numerous to mention could have been avoided under his leadership.

I will say this, Los Angeles burning to the ground is certainly the end all be all allegory of the Biden era.

Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-01-12 11:03 AM | Reply

Ummmmmmm How was Biden supposed to stop the deviating affects of Climate Change??? Hmmmmmmmmmmm

I trust the points I've made are clear enough to any honest reader, despite your repeated attempts to obfiscate, conflate and shift the topic of discussion. Have a nice day, BW.

Luftwaffles. You don't know the cause and you attack Gal for the reality of what has and is providing an incredible environment for any cause of ignition to ravage and destroy like never before.

Yav you mean like not clearing brush and doing controlled burns? Because that has nothing to do with the climate.

#27 The only thing I know about X is what you and a few others regurgitated on this site, following people on X with Tweets that never aged well. How's Bella. lol. You will NEVER find a post of mine with X link.

The bum was the ignition source.

The warming and drying conditions caused by climate change caused the fire to become unmanageable and engulf populated areas.

Fuel build up was caused by decades of fire suppression in a pyrocentric ecosystem that requires frequent fires.

The causes are multiple and some are manageable with proper planning.

EDIT to add, in my best Jan Brady voice, Musk, Musk, Musk, 24/7 on the Retort.

I will say this, Los Angeles burning to the ground is certainly the end all be all allegory of the Biden era.

#36 | Posted by Bluewaffles

What will you say when Dallas burns?

You know, my house in Texas has been close to these sort of fires. Twice.

It was during Donald's First Advent.

Yeah, the air was filled with allegory.

Idiot.

Yav you mean like not clearing brush and doing controlled burns? Because that has nothing to do with the climate.

Nope. I'm not getting dragged into this to argue with a moron that lies and obfuscates. You and Effete should go find that bum you keep talking about. Fccking idiots.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!

--trump's fault

wow....that was fast.....even for you f/g bigots.

#46 - what was trump blamed for exactly?

Fccking idiots.

#45 | POSTED BY YAV

Fccking idiots talking about something they don't have a clue about.

The water wars have been going on in California since the late 1800s and early 1900s and are still going on.

But yeah jump right in the middle of that mess and just open a big "faucet" (that doesn't exist).

Gotta love fcckin Idiots.

-What will you say when Dallas burns?

You'll blame it 100% on the republican party.

but nobody cares.

the partisan bickering over the LA fires is just noise. It doesn't impact policy nor will it impact change.

California and LA will continue to do everything they've been doing despite what's happening here right now.

Santa Ana winds.....it has it's own name. LOL

extremely dry conditions and massive winds.......NOT unexpected.

And why? The almighty dollar. People with money who want the beauty of living right there.

they'll go back with precisely the same housing.....in an increased risk factor.

The discussion is about Trump because the op-ed is about how his policies will govern the next 4 years and affect the future of our country. Denying climate change is real isn't going make climate change go away, no matter how many state and local officials Republicans blame for the devastating consequences their denials and coming policies are going to create. From the op-ed:

but he's [Trump]made it clear that America's second half of the 2020s will be dedicated to tossing the fight against climate change " the root cause of LA's civic nightmare " down the memory hole.

To be clear, it takes a perfect storm to destroy a great metropolis. The fury of the westward Santa Ana winter winds is timeless. But the bottom line is that January wildfires in Southern California were fueled by decades of humans pumping carbon into the skies over LA's jammed freeways.

The last three years--the planet's hottest ever recorded, boosted by man-made global warming--of oven-roaster days have meant a cycle of stronger and moister storms over California that nurtured dense brush, followed by 300 almost completely rain-free days of drought, as Mother Nature crafted the tinderbox that erupted on Tuesday.

"A majority of the largest, deadliest, and most destructive wildfires in state history have all occurred within the past 10 years," meteorologist Eric Holthaus noted in a piece for Fast Company. "The emergence of extreme wintertime wildfires in California presents one of those classic This is climate change' moments: A specific set of weather conditions are now occurring in such a way to produce the potential for rare disasters to become much more common."

This is indeed climate change, and it's appalling that the major TV networks on Tuesday, in their breaking news coverage, gave little or no mention of the climate crisis. The political nightmare that is compounding California's tragedy is that Trump's tilting against windmills and electric stoves has guaranteed the world's second-largest emitter of carbon won't do one darn thing about this for the next four years.

-Denying climate change is real isn't going make climate change go away,

And saying you accept climate change isn't going to make climate change go away either.

Trump will continue to blame Newsom because he wants to deflect from any conversation about climate change.

Why is climate change in the conversation? What new data point in particular caused by Climate Change caused this fire?
Lets say you believe in ClimateChange, does that mean we don't cutting back vegetation, keep reservoirs full.
Spend more on Fire prevention, why would Newsom cut $100M from fire prevention IF we know ClimateChange will make more FIRES?
See even if your utopia of ClimateChange was true, the Government that taxes its people to holy hell isn't doing any thing to mitigate it.
For instance how much CO2 was released by the fire? 15 years of CA CO2 has been released, not to mention all the toxic fumes.

Do you think fire prevention is diametrically opposed to climate change policy? Because thats how California behaves.

Wildfires are erasing California's climate gains, research shows
news.uchicago.edu

But yeah jump right in the middle of that mess and just open a big "faucet" (that doesn't exist).

What happened to Prop1? Nothing where did all that money go?

Proposition 1 " the Water Quality, Supply and Infrastructure Improvement Act of 2014 " is a $7.5 billion
water bond placed on the November 4 ballot by a nearunanimous, bipartisan vote by the Legislature
and the signature of Gov. Jerry Brown. If approved by voters, Proposition 1 would fund investments in
water projects and programs as part of a statewide, comprehensive water plan for California.
In addition to funding programs from water conservation to recycling to groundwater cleanup to water
storage, Proposition 1 is intended to leverage additional local and regional funds to provide a total
investment of $25 billion to $30 billion to address California's water needs
www.irwd.com

California voters OK'd billions forwater projects. Where are the new dams, reservoirs
sitesproject.org

Environmental rules stoke anger as California lets precious stormwater wash out to sea.

In the delta " the heart of the state's vast water system " nearly 95% of incoming water has flowed into the Pacific Ocean, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation.
www.latimes.com

I see the usual Lumpers are full of emotion, they see the collapse of the Utopian Government that spend more on homeless than Fire Prevention, and want to point their finger at some shiny object out of reach.

DonnerBot points at other idiots, when he forgets he has three other fingers pointing back at him.

Denying climate change is real isn't going make climate change go away,

Denying fires don't contribute to climate change won't make climate change go away either.

forgets he has three other fingers pointing back at him.

#52 | Posted by oneironaut

How many middle fingers do you have?

If you believe in climate change, fire prevention should currently be the number one priority.

Its wild all the people defending the incompetence thats making climate change worse.

"Yav you mean like not clearing brush and doing controlled burns? Because that has nothing to do with the climate."

Which also had nothing to do with preventing these fires in the neighborhoods and canyons. And actually the federal government owns 57 percent of California's forest land versus 3 percent owned by the state.

The wildland that has burned in Los Angeles covers areas that have many different owners. The federally owned Angeles National Forest neighbours Altadena, where the Eaton wildfire is burning. The Pacific Palisades blaze includes state and national parkland.

And you say climate had nothing to do with it but the climate did create the extreme conditions associated with these extreme weather events.

In the end especially in these wealthy neighborhoods California residents and Property owners and homeowners associations are responsible for clearing brush and creating wildfire buffer zones in most of those lands. Not the state of California.

I remember when I thought of most Chinese as quite intelligent.

1Nut has spoiled all that.

IAMRUNT, the flaming orange turd said California was going to be fine because the temperature was going to drop. What happened?

If we (US, China, Asia, Europe) stop using all forms of carbon for energy the earth will cleanse the excess CO2 in the atmosphere in anywhere from 300 to 1000 years, returning the climate back to "normal". We just need to have patience and wait, there is no need to adapt. Don't build reservoirs or clear brush.

There is no need to restrict building in areas prone to wildfires.

they're gonna put it all back again. for sure

if they want to pay for it, insure it, protect it (or fail to protect it) with their own money then fine. I'll watch them burn to the ground when the Santa Ana winds and dry climate combined with a spark all intersects again.

"If you believe in climate change, fire prevention should currently be the number one priority."

Gotta just love all these climate and fire prevention experts suddenly coming out of the wood work to tell us how to do it!

California is a huge state. There will be fires. Fires are a part of nature. You cannot prevent them all. You can become more prepared and more resilient to them and better able to manage them.

Fire prevention is a very high priority in California. But prevention of the underlying causes of climate change is obviously the higher priority and would make these extreme wildfires less likely and less severe and easier to manage.

-California is a huge state. There will be fires.

agreed.

but the vulnerable areas where fires will cause massive devastation isn't all that large.

Just found out California spends $30B a year on benefits for illegal immigrants and just $3B a year on fire prevention.

So the priority isn't Climate Change.

but the vulnerable areas where fires will cause massive devastation isn't all that large.
#63 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Seems reasonable.

Gotta just love all these climate and fire prevention experts suddenly coming out of the wood work to tell us how to do it!

Read the science.

Fires are a part of nature.

Not in California. It used to be CA would let naturally ignited fires burn. But not today.

SierraClub etal also put the clamps on preventative burns, now 3-7yrs to get permits.

Yet the fuel builds up in 3yrs, so what are you going to do?

Fire prevention is a very high priority in California.

Not that high, its 10x less than migrant benefits.

More insanity adding to the cause of fires getting bigger ...

Susan Shelley: California regulations only make wildfires worse
www.dailynews.com

Dude is smarter than all the California Government put together ... saved a ton of CO2!

Probably illegal ... but ...

Californians took matters into their own hands using a pump, a generator, and emptying two pools to save their neighborhood from the LA wildfires:
"We have to give all the credit to our father, about 3 to 4 months ago was adamant about having one of these [pool pumps] for fire season."

Despite paying the highest taxes, Californians have to rely on their own pool water.
x.com

Not that high, its 10x less than migrant benefits.

#68 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

You are 10x higher than me if you believe any of that shat spewing from your Trump hole.

Every year Cali allows snow melt to flow into the Pacific Ocean.

The last water reservoir built in Cali was completed in 1979.

Then there is this:

" Los Angeles Times
@latimes

Follow
A reservoir in the Palisades that holds 117 million gallons of water was offline this month for previously scheduled maintenance. It was empty when the Palisades fire exploded"

That is criminal incompetence.

"Not in California. It used to be CA would let naturally ignited fires burn. But not today."

Because you can't let them just burn themselves out anymore numbnuts.

California does prescribed burns but remember only 3% of the forest lands are managed by California.

57% are managed by the federal government.

"Despite paying the highest taxes, Californians have to rely on their own pool water."m

Oh GFY hater.

This is exact the kind of agitprop garbage you'd would expect from a hostile foreign propagandist. Not an American.

The water system was designed to provide enough water to put out local basic structure fires. Not extreme wildfires being fueled by 100mph winds that can destroy entire towns in minutes. I doubt there is any water system in the world that would be able to provide that kind of fire suppression capability.

I bet this one gets some major upgrades but even still it would still run out of water pressure under extreme conditions like these.

The concern trolling is top notch.

"extreme wildfires being fueled by 100mph winds that can destroy entire towns in minutes."

Sounds like a really good place to put ... ... .a town.

I would imagine in California, similar to most states, there's a liability shield for public entities.

What percent of LA county is under Federal control?

Sounds like a really good place to put ... ... .a town.

#75 | POSTED BY EBERLY

An increased danger of wildfires is NOT the only danger we face due to population growth and climate change. How is that rebuilding coming along down there in our Dick state of Florida after the recent hurricanes? Did they get all the houses rebuilt in the exact same spots where they were destroyed?

I doubt there is any "good place" (as in safe place) on any coastline of America to put a town these days.

Every city and town within miles of the coast and close to sea level is in just as much danger from rising sea levels.

But we will also ignore that danger until it is upon us, too.

What percent of LA county is under Federal control?

#77 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Like you care. You are just looking for flaws you can exploit. Go find it yourself like OneNut does.

Like any city or county in America most of it is privately owned. Ask your AI.

It's a mix of owners and agencies as I already indicated.

"the wildland that has burned in Los Angeles covers areas that have many different owners. The federally owned Angeles National Forest neighbours Altadena, where the Eaton wildfire is burning. The Pacific Palisades blaze includes state and national parkland."

-Did they get all the houses rebuilt in the exact same spots where they were destroyed?

Probably. Or soon enough they will.

Absurd, right? And it's all being done by people who claim they really really really really believe in global warming.

And it's all being done by people who claim they really really really really believe in global warming.
#80 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Floridians now really really really believe in global warming?

Sorry. Not buying whatever it is you are selling.

-Floridians now really really really believe in global warming?

Let's try this again.

No, they don't. But they claim they do.

Especially the folks living in $1 M homes in Southern Florida.

And the folks who just saw their home incinerated in LA

Some of the proclaimed biggest believers in global warming own coastal property. John Kerry springs to mind.

"Some of the proclaimed biggest believers in global warming own coastal property."

Because maybe they want to protect the investments they made in their coastal properties?

Naw. That can't be it.

Some of the proclaimed biggest believers in global warming own coastal property. John Kerry springs to mind.

#83 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-01-12 02:30 PM | Reply

It's almost as if they have a vested interest in things not being flooded.

"No, they don't. But they claim they do."

Well some do and some don't. The republicans controlling the state (most) do not.

But you now claim they do? For the sake of your current argument of course.

"Because maybe they want to protect the investments they made in their coastal properties?"

Maybe protect their political careers? Or sit at the cool kids table?

Naw ... ..that can't be it.

"Especially the folks living in $1 M homes in Southern Florida"

The folks that get to witness the costs and extreme effects of climate change first hand get their believers adjusted pretty quickly.

The rest who are not directly unaffected. Probably not so much.

-The republicans controlling the state (most) do not.

Yes and they admit it.

Certainly some folks in California will start admitting they really didn't believe it.

But maybe now.

"Certainly some folks in California will start admitting they really didn't believe it."

You act like we don't have any maga maroons in California. We absolutely do. More than any other state actually. We just have managed to keep our insane clowns under control and out of power. Mostly. Not sure how long that can last even here tho.

Donnerboy,

This has been posted at some social media sites. I haven't been able to independently verify it.

Do you know if this is true:

" They've been ordered to submit to a DOT inspection in Sacramento that's scheduled for 4:30 pm today.
If they clear the inspection, they'll THEN be able to drive 400 miles to Pacific Palisades."

Some of the proclaimed biggest believers in global warming own coastal property. John Kerry springs to mind.

Posted by BellRinger at 2025-01-12 02:30 PM | Reply

That means what exactly Jeff?? We here in central Kansas experienced massive amounts of flooding too several years ago. We are far from the coastline. You can still believe in global warming/climate change and live on the coast. People take risks everyday even if they believe that their behavior might put them at risk. It's a condition of being a human being. Just sayin

#91 Don't know if fire trucks were held up or not. I would not have an issue with that. The last thing anyone needed were trucks with engine issues that might spark another fire, faulty equipment, etc. to complicate matters even worse.

-You can still believe in global warming/climate change and live on the coast.

You can lie about it anywhere as well.

This has been posted at some social media sites. I haven't been able to independently verify it.

Do you know if this is true:

" They've been ordered to submit to a DOT inspection in Sacramento that's scheduled for 4:30 pm today.
If they clear the inspection, they'll THEN be able to drive 400 miles to Pacific Palisades."

Posted by BellRinger at 2025-01-12 03:39 PM | Reply

Look at Jeff desperately trying to pwn the liberals and failing badly. Even Gracie eviscerated that attempt. Funny thing that.

-It's a condition of being a human being. Just sayin

That's an excuse for anybody to be stupid.

Why does it appear to be unique to people who don't understand global warming but claim to have an informed opinion?

It's not unique to them.

You can lie about it anywhere as well.

Posted by eberly at 2025-01-12 04:19 PM | Reply

"Nice" coming to Jeff's rescue too Eberly.

Eberly is Jeff's *itch.

#18 Gal has another post that did not age well. Newsom's 'site' is linked to misinformation talking points and fundraising from the DNC fundraising giant ActBlue.

OMG a politician is fund raising for a disaster. Stop the internet, gracie needs to get off.

#100 You simply can't be that stupid. No way.

Have someone read Newsom's link to you.

Then funny flag my post and fuck right off.

Calm down beanie. The FF was done before you asked for it.

She still won't understand, even if it's read to her.

BIDEN: current U.S. President (DEM).
NEWSOM: Governor of CALIF (DEM).
Majority of State Senate (over 2/3 DEM).
Majority of State House (over 2/3 DEM).
BASS: Mayor of LA (DEM).
City Council of LA (14 of 15 DEM)

Makes perfect sense to be upset with Trump for the fires.

Double-posting meaningless nonsense and saying it makes perfect sense. Awesome. What a reflection.

I meant to double-post that. Damn.

The FF was done before you asked for it.

#103 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2025-01-12 05:19 PM | Reply

It's the only semi intelligent thing you can manage here.

" Look at Jeff desperately trying to pwn the liberals and failing badly. Even Gracie eviscerated that attempt. Funny thing that.

#95 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2025-01-12 04:23 PM | FLAG: "

You have a reading comprehension problem. I asked Donnerboy if he knew whether or not it's true. That's it.

It's a mystery why the orange rapist didn't slam the governor of Tennessee after the Gatlinburg fire hydrants ran dry in the wildfire that killed 14.

bsky.app

OMG a politician is fund raising for a disaster. Stop the internet, gracie needs to get off.
#100 | Posted by Alexandrite

The issue is he used his governor account.

Because maybe they want to protect the investments they made in their coastal properties?
Naw. That can't be it.
#84 | Posted by donnerboy

Then why did the Obama's buy coastal property?

Seems, given your logic they are exposing themselves to a loss.

Makes perfect sense to be upset with Trump for the fires.

#106 | Posted by visitor_ at 2025-01-12 05:23 PM | Reply

I'm "upset" with the politicized BS coming out of the trumps truth social account and his fat orange mouth.

Then why did the Obama's buy coastal property?

Because it's nice?

Because they hoped people were smart enough to reduce carbon emissions in the near future?

BTW where would you like to live that doesn't have the following: Tornados, Hurricanes, Wildfires, Earthquakes, Mudslides, Flooding? Good luck.

I'm upset with his plans to make across the board federal government policies based on climate change denialism.

I'm upset with his MO of blaming the effects of weather related disasters on state and local officials but only if they are Democrats.

-Then why did the Obama's buy coastal property?

It's a fair question.

-BTW where would you like to live that doesn't have the following: Tornados, Hurricanes, Wildfires, Earthquakes, Mudslides, Flooding? Good luck.

Not everywhere has the same risk of those things.

Some areas have massive exposures to some of those perils.

Do you understand that?

@#112 ... Then why did the Obama's buy coastal property? ....

Maybe the better question is, why does that property look to have a substantial seawall protecting it?

I posted a link to this article a couple days ago.

Good maps in the article...

Wildfires and hurricanes could make parts of U.S. uninsurable
www.axios.com

why did the Obama's buy coastal property?

Why not?

Buying costal property and believing in climate change aren't mutually exclusive.

Fighting to slow down climate change and trying to combat climate change are worthy efforts.

I'm not expecting people to start living like the Amish just because they believe we need to find solutions to the results of industrialization and mass production.

Alternatives to plastic, reducing the need for lumber, processing byproducts of manufacturing so we're not dumping waste into our environment ...

There's things that can be done.

The notion the Obamas are hypocrites for living in costal property is a lie spread by morons like 1TRUMPSLUT because its easy to gaslight idiots with such stupid statements.

-Buying costal property and believing in climate change aren't mutually exclusive.

Depends where

Anybody who lives with a huge carbon footprint in an area vulnerable to devastating disasters is part if the problem.

Regardless of their opinion on global warming.

Maybe the better question is, why does that property look to have a substantial seawall protecting it?
#119 | Posted by LampLighter

It's not, it's an estuary.

What else does your alias have?

#120 this has been brought up by me and ignored by you on previous threads.

Why doesn't California mitigate these ?

-this has been brought up by me and ignored by you on previous threads.

Probably busy with one of his other aliases

Anybody who lives with a huge carbon footprint in an area vulnerable to devastating disasters ...

What areas aren't vulnerable to devastating disasters?

Whether is floods or tornadoes or hurricanes or earthquakes or fires or freezing, everywhere has its issues.

Fact is. Obama is being called out because Obama haters think by pointing out he's living in a costal community, it negates the threat of climate change.

It doesn't.

-What areas aren't vulnerable to devastating disasters?

So you're gonna pretend it's all equal?

You're gonna say there aren't places that are substantially more vulnerable than others?

-everywhere has its issues.

LOL

I've been living in California my whole life and never has there been a fire in the pacific palisades, let alone something like what just happened.

Are you going to pretend anyone knew such a catastrophe would occur.

Are you pretending natural devastation is just isolated to the coasts?

-Obama is being called out because Obama haters think by pointing out he's living in a costal community, it negates the threat of climate change.

I'm no Obama hater

Makes perfect sense to be upset with Trump for the fires.
#106 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

Trump has used the fires to attack Democrats in the state of California.

While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.

Trump uses them to create division and instability in our society.

The man has but one objective, destroy the United States of America.

@#124 ... It's not, it's an estuary. ...

I asked (#119), Maybe the better question is, why does that property look to have a substantial seawall protecting it?

And the reply from your current alias is, It's not, it's an estuary.

Dodge the question much?

Obama is being called out because Obama haters think by pointing out he's living in a costal community, it negates the threat of climate change.

No ... Just refuting an argument DonnerBot made....

Because maybe they want to protect the investments they made in their coastal properties?
Naw. That can't be it.
#84 | Posted by donnerboy

Obama came up because he had no "investments" in coastal properties, then bought a very expensive, and vulnerable piece of property.

If CC is true, and only Lumpers care about it, why would he do that?

Dodge the question much?
#133 | Posted by LampLighter

Google earth much.

There is no sea wall, its an estuary protected by a sand dune, between it and the sea.

-Are you going to pretend anyone knew such a catastrophe would occur.

Climate scientists have been tell us for a while. Specifically that area

www.aljazeera.com

-Are you pretending natural devastation is just isolated to the coasts?

The largest natural disasters in this country are probably 80+% on the coasts. Hurricanes primarily but this fire will probably make the list.

So you're gonna pretend it's all equal?

Only so we continue posting so he makes his troll dollars.

Are you going to pretend anyone knew such a catastrophe would occur.

LOL

Scientist told Mayor Bass there was a high potential of a fire.

Trump said this would happen after he came out to CA to see the devastation from a previous fire.

IOW plenty of people knew such a catastrophe would occur, but migrants were 10x more important.

-While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.

Agreed but did you believe that during Katrina?

Read your article, it make no specific mentions of that area.

It talk about Los Angeles in general and drought compared to last year.

It talks about climate change and temperatures rising.

But I read nothing that states the palisades were an area of concern.

Besides Altadena, another location in Los Angeles which has been hit very hard by fire over the past week and has caused significant loss of homes, is inland, not costal. It's not getting the attention the palisades are because it's not the uber wealthy living there.

So what about them?

I mean. Clearly no one cares. They're not rich enough to receive attention by the media.

But trust me when I say, it means a lot to people living here. These fires have burnt down homes of people we know and love.

And while this is all a bunch of hypotheticals and trolling for assh*les living in other states. It's real and painful for people living here.

Agreed but did you believe that during Katrina?
#140 | POSTED BY EBERLY

When? During my presidency?

I was mistaken, that was their vacation home, here is there property
ap.rdcpix.com

While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.

As a new comer, I have never seen this.

IMO this is how change happens, being critical. Otherwise it gets buried in reports/investigations.

AND NOTHING HAPPENS.

Obamas purchased home on an estuary.
maps.app.goo.gl

"It talk about Los Angeles in general and drought compared to last year.

It talks about climate change and temperatures rising."

Yea. And since these fires are occurring in that area ... ... it's pretty much on point.

#146

My friend moved to Minnesota because the area he lived in was prone to wild fires and he's no climate scientist.

What's your point?

-When? During my presidency?

No, when you were screaming "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

I know you just want to bitch about Trump and I'm making that harder.

Carry on ... ...

since these fires are occurring in that area ... ... it's pretty much on point.
#147 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Considering there are wildfires in California every year?

It's almost like republicans are finally learning out about climate change since they can attack California and democrats with their new found knowledge.

@#135 ... There is no sea wall, its an estuary protected by a sand dune, between it and the sea. ...

Thanks for the follow-up.

The usual lack of specificity in your current alias' prior comment led me to a different Obama estate.

Obama and the Beach House Loopholes (2020)
www.propublica.org

Where there does seem to be a seawall.

OK, now that your current alias has (finally!) provided a link for what it said ...

The link of the satellite image your current alias provides seems to show a buffer zone between the water and the built-up part of the estate.

Is your current alias saying that that buffer zone is inadequate?

If so, why?

our current alias has said, it looks to be an estuary.

So, the problem is?

And, as y

#144

Wow... 1Nut has gone all Peter Theil disciple. A Chinabot Shady JD!

Let the Oligarchy Reign!

I s'pose.

My post:

While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.
Trump uses them to create division and instability in our society.

Eberly's response:

you were screaming "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

You really are an idiot.

As a new comer,
#144 | POSTED BY 1INCEL

Finally hit puberty?

@#144 ... As a new comer, I have never seen this. ...

'Tis a shame the person behind your current alias has never seen this.

It used to be the Country united to help those affected by such disasters.

Help those affected, first and foremost.

Then, after the immediate danger of the disaster is resolved, take a step back and look at what could be done better.

... IMO this is how change happens, being critical. ...

I do not disagree.

But at the proper time.

I will also add that "being critical" is not throwing disinformation and misinformation into the mix for political prposes, as Mr Musk and Pres-elect Trump have done.

"Being critical" is coming to the table with facts and suggestions on how to make things better.

While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.

Trump uses them to create division and instability in our society.

The man has but one objective, destroy the United States of America.

#132 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-01-12 07:14 PM | Reply

Dubya during Katrina was horrible. So much so that his parents had to go on National TV to say that their son was a Good boy and a good president. He crapped the bed horribly with his response to Hurricane Katrina.

@#150 ... I know you just want to bitch about Trump and I'm making that harder. ...

I've no clue to whom, or what comment, your comment is directed at.

But I will say, your comments here do not make it harder to ~bitch about Trump.~.

Quite the contrary, the vacuous nature of most of your comments seem to assist those who want to ~bitch about Trump.~

As someone who has been using X more often since discovering its a great source for free porn.

Their top stories are all about the fires and very critical of the democratic leadership.

So it's no surprise seeing so many Musketeers posting the same bullshht here that I see on there.

1MUSKDICKSUCKER is pretty much just copying stories form there and posting them on the DR.

"Do you know if this is true:"

I understand that is true. But I am not here to second guess hard working first responders and their decisions like you maga maroons. There will be plenty of time for that after the fires are extinguished and everyone is being helped to recover.

Then why did the Obama's buy coastal property?

Seems, given your logic they are exposing themselves to a loss.

#112 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

My logic?

Every investment comes with risks.

No risk=no reward.

"GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

Clownshack is Kanye West?

That clip is one of the funniest things I've seen.

The Mike Myers and Chris Tucker were left stunned.

images.app.goo.gl

You do realize that Delusional Old Joe is still Prez & Newsom is the Hollywood Guv, right?

POSTED BY THEMAJORKONG

You idiots get dummer every day.

@#157 ... Dubya during Katrina was horrible. ...

Yeah, 100% agreement.

But, I will add, not because of his trying to politicize the disaster (and lying to do so), but mostly because of his ineptitude.

He seemed to be in deep water, water over his head.

@#164 ... You idiots get dummer every day. ...

Why the plural?

-you were screaming "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

You were and you know it.

You and the other dopes here. 100%

You were and you know it.

Eberly conflates the word of the president of the United States with the words of the people in the streets.

Because he's desperate to defend Trump's statements.

Just threw in the towel ... ..poor thing.

Just threw in the towel ...
#169 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You sure did.

@#168 ... Eberly conflates the word of the president of the United States with the words of the people in the streets. ...

I remain to be convinced even that is accurate.

... Because he's desperate to defend Trump's statements. ...

That's the way it seems.

But, the problem for that alias that I see is that the comments posted by that alias are so irrelevant that they actually try to degrade the opinion it seems to be trying to proffer.

Yeah, try to.

Has that alias become an ironic alias?

Clown has called every republican in the country a racist.

But in a pathetic effort to make trump different, he says this ...

"While every other president in my life time, and I'd wager everyone's lifetime, has tried their best to bring Americans together during times of crisis and tragedy.
Trump uses them to create division and instability in our society."

Trump probably is different but you're the last poster on this place to see that.

Every republican in this country is a white hood wearing KKK member, according to the clown

-Because he's desperate to defend Trump's statements.

You KNOW you're lying.

you were screaming "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

You were and you know it.

You and the other dopes here. 100%

Posted by eberly at 2025-01-12 09:23 PM | Reply

Unless Clownshack had a previous handle. He couldn't have made any statements here. He joined in 2008. Hurricane Katrina happened in 2005.

OOPSIE DAISY

The fact I pointed out in cases of crisis and tragedy Presidents try to unite the nation seems to have really thrown sand in Eberly's gash.

What a cranky *itch he is.

@#172 ... Clown has called every republican in the country a racist. ...

Got a quote?

@#173 ... You KNOW you're lying. ...

Interesting that your current alias seem to know what I do and do not know.

Here's a hint: it doesn't.

"OOPSIE DAISY"

Could you be any more gay?

And I didn't say he said it here.

He knows I'm right.

-The fact I pointed out in cases of crisis and tragedy Presidents try to unite the nation seems to have really thrown sand in Eberly's gash.

Because you're lying. You don't believe any such thing.

You can't believe all republicans are racist and then assign "try to unite" BS

You lie so much you can't keep up.

Let be honest.

To assume anything I say has the same significance as what the President of the United States says is absurd.

But it's what Eberly feels he has to do in order to defend Trump.

Even if it's bringing up what people said in 2005 in response to the federal government's response to the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

It's the same as Trump spending every moment since the fires started attacking California, democrats, the victims, and anyone else he could.

So when you scream "all republicans are racist" you're just begging for attention?

You're not serious?

-Let be honest.

Can you?

There is zero evidence of that.

OOPSIE DAISY"

Could you be any more gay?

And I didn't say he said it here.

He knows I'm right.

Posted by eberly at 2025-01-12 09:43 PM | Reply

You were screaming "GEORGE BUSH HATES BLACK PEOPLE"

You were and you know it.

You and the other dopes here. 100%

Posted by eberly at 2025-01-12 09:23 PM | Reply

OOPSIE DAISY HONEY

Because you're lying.

Then it should be easy for you to prove I'm lying.

Name a president who has used a tragedy to attack the other party.

Obama? BushJr? Clinton? BushSr? Reagan? Carter? Someone before him?

You're so desperate to have a point you're not even reading my post. Just attacking, because you don't have anything else to say.

Someone help poor Laura.

Oh yea. I forgot Biden.

Did Biden use the hurricanes to attack DeSantis or the governor of North Carolina?

Laura is doing just fine feeding you your horse shht.

" No risk=no reward.
#160 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2025-01-12 08:09 PM | FLAG: "

But what is being harped on is rising sea levels due to land ice melting. That is supposedly baked into the cake with coastal property. Yet, no apparent concern by the rich lefties who own coastal property.

Eberly.

You should go ask your wife to wipe the sand out of your swollen gash and then go to sleep.

You're clearly not having a good day.

"Name a president who has used a tragedy to attack the other party. "

I'm talking about YOUR accusations and beliefs about GOP leaders.

You're trying to separate trump from them.

In reality, to you, they aren't different.

" Did Biden use the hurricanes to attack DeSantis or the governor of North Carolina?
#186 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2025-01-12 09:52 PM | FLAG: ".

Everyone was chomping at the bit to go after DeSantis after every hurricane. Problem is, he and his team are really good at disaster management. So, kinda makes that difficult.

@#182 ... Can you? ...

At his point, I have to ask if your current alias, and its apparent new-found excitement in participating on this most august board (replacing the Bellringer alias?) can show what it posts are not lies.

... There is zero evidence of that. ...

I also, at this point, remain to be convinced that your current alias would know evidence if it had walked into a brick wall of it.

But keep posting.

Your current alias provides humor here.

"You should go ask your wife ... ."

Wow ... ... you're hurt. You're bleeding.

I mean ... ..are you not getting enough cock?

@#190 ... "Name a president who has used a tragedy to attack the other party. "

I'm talking about YOUR accusations and beliefs about GOP leaders. ...

So, when asked a simple question, the answer is ... wait for it ...

A deflection and a non-answer.

-Yet, no apparent concern by the rich lefties who own coastal property.

Nope

"Laura is doing just fine"

Laura is so fukkin dumb she can't figure out when I said "you screamed" it means you screamed it here.

I know when Katrina was

I also know there is zero chance you weren't screaming it.

Everyone was chomping at the bit to go after DeSantis after every hurricane.
#191 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

It's amazing.

It's so difficult for you Deplorable Trumpers to just admit he's a piece of shht.

Even when the statement is as simple as:

Your only response is to attack me or bring up "everyone".

-It's so difficult for you Deplorable Trumpers to just admit he's a piece of shht.

I can concede that anytime.

I just look for something more interesting to discuss than to bitch about trump.

This is the 600,000th thread about it.

You have 600,000 more coming.

Yet, no apparent concern by the rich lefties who own coastal property.
#188 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

This is such a partisan issue for you, you can't even fathom how many Trump voters lived in the Palisades.

Posted by BellRinger at 2025-01-12 09:55 PM | Reply

You can be greatly concerned about Climate Change and still at the same time live on the coast. You have to weigh the risks and the rewards by doing so. If I were wealthy. I'd live off-grid in a long cabin in the mountains even with my poor health conditions. It's about living one's life to the fullest with full knowledge of the risks.

"You can be greatly concerned about Climate Change, or pretend to be, and at the same time live on the coast."

Laura is so fukkin dumb she can't figure out when I said "you screamed" it means you screamed it here.

I know when Katrina was

I also know there is zero chance you weren't screaming it.

Posted by eberly at 2025-01-12 10:03 PM | Reply

This from the guy who took issue with me when I declared that Jeff supported the Patriot Act and I didn't and you asked here and I told you yes and showed you proof of that. I did and you took issue with the fact that it was in 2005 and you complained about it not happening when it first occurred but later. It's the same issue here. Just sayin

Pussy
#201 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Eat me.

Mike Myers

I thought Myers and Tucker handled that really well.

If you're not Amish, you don't care about climate change.
-Eberly

You can say a lot about George W Bush, but I don't think "he doesn't care about black people" is one of them.

Myers and Tucker handled that really well.
#205 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Hahaha!

I mean. Mayer was speechless and Tucker's eyes were popping out of his head.

But agreed. They handled it as best as they could.

You can say a lot about George W Bush, but I don't think "he doesn't care about black people" is one of them.

I remember it.

There were people stranded on their rooftops for days before they were rescued.

In response, people were saying it was because BushJr didn't care about black people. But in reality it was because they were poor.

In November there was a fire in Ventura county that burnt 20 thousand acres and hundreds of buildings, but it got zero attention.

There are currently 4 other fires burning in Los Angeles county, the Altadena fire has been devastating, but we're all talking about the one in the Palisades, along the coast.

Because it affects rich people.

Everyone was chomping at the bit to go after DeSantis after every hurricane.
#191 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

DeSantis's problem is with the first amendment. He keeps violating it.

In response, people were saying it was because BushJr didn't care about black people. But in reality it was because they were poor.

He put Brownie in charge, a horse judge. That, IMHO, was the issue. I think W genuinely does care about Americans, but not Iraqis...

@#209 ... but we're all talking about the one in the Palisades, ...

I have been talking about the fires in the LA area, not any specific fire.

There are currently 4 other fires burning in Los Angeles county, the Altadena fire has been devastating, but we're all talking about the one in the Palisades, along the coast.

Because it affects rich people.

#209 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-01-12 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag

I can't disagree.

-In response, people were saying it was because BushJr didn't care about black people.

Reagan, bush sr and jr ... ..all of them were racists.

Evil evil evil men.

Now? It all softens ... ...

I think W genuinely does care about Americans, but not Iraqis...
#211 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Despite everything I disliked about BushJr.

There was never a point I felt like he was attacking America.

Despite everything I've heard about Reagan, I never heard he tried to tear this nation apart.

I've never heard of republican presidents attacking states or individuals or Americans.

They've always seemed to be above such behavior.

At least publicly.

He put Brownie in charge, a horse judge. That, IMHO, was the issue. I think W genuinely does care about Americans, but not Iraqis...

Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-01-12 10:35 PM | Reply

Brown did a great job warning Dubya about the pending devastation of Hurricane Katrina it was Dubya who acted blase about the information provided to him by Brown. I'll see if I can find the video of the exchange.

I have been talking about the fires in the LA area, not any specific fire.
#212 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Wasn't trying to call out anyone specifically.

It's just all the "fire hydrants are out of water" and "why isn't anyone using ocean water" and "what about the reservoir" are all specific to the Palisades fire.

Also. The winds on the first night were so strong firefighters ouldnt do anything. But now, instead of focusing on the fire and helping people, there also all this attention being placed on who to blame.

It's ridiculous.

FOUND IT ALEXANDRITE

newsroom.ap.org

" DeSantis's problem is with the first amendment. He keeps violating it.

#210 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-01-12 10:34 PM | FLAG: "

When has that happened?

www.nytimes.com

Dealing a blow to Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, a federal court of appeals on Wednesday ruled that he had violated First Amendment protections when he suspended a progressive state prosecutor for political gain.

And another:

whdh.com

New York (CNN) " "To keep it simple for the State of Florida: it's the First Amendment, stupid."

That's what a federal judge wrote Thursday as he sided with local TV stations in an extraordinary dispute over a pro-abortion rights television ad.

Chief U.S. District Judge Mark E. Walker of the Northern District of Florida granted a temporary restraining order against Florida's surgeon general after the state health department threatened to bring criminal charges against broadcasters airing the ad.

The controversy stems from a campaign ad by the group Floridians Protecting Freedom, which is behind the "Yes on 4 Campaign," promoting a ballot measure that seeks to overturn Florida's six-week abortion ban by enshrining abortion rights in the state constitution.

In the 30-second ad, a brain cancer survivor named Caroline says the state law would have prevented her from receiving a life-saving abortion.

"The doctors knew that if I did not end my pregnancy, I would lose my baby, I would lose my life, and my daughter would lose her mom," she says on camera. "Florida has now banned abortions, even in cases like mine."

The state health department " part of Gov. Ron DeSantis's administration, which has aggressively campaigned against the pro-abortion amendment " said the ad's claims are "false" and "dangerous" to the public health.

John Wilson, the health department's general counsel, sent cease-and-desist letters to multiple television stations airing the ad. Floridians Protecting Freedom then filed a lawsuit against Wilson and the state's surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, saying the threats amounted to "unconstitutional coercion and viewpoint discrimination" and pressed the court to bar the state from following up on threats to sue.

On Thursday, the judge agreed the health department's threats were "viewpoint discrimination" and wrote that the group presented "a substantial likelihood of proving an ongoing violation of its First Amendment rights through the threatened direct penalization of its political speech."

And more:

www.thefire.org

The Florida legislature has once again chosen to limit its citizens' free speech rights " this time by passing House Bill 3, which severely restricts Floridians' access to websites and content on the internet.

and yet another example:

www.theguardian.com

In a scathing ruling released late on Monday, a three-judge panel of the 11th circuit appeals court in Atlanta blasted DeSantis's 2022 Stop Woke Act " which banned employers from providing mandatory workplace diversity training, or from teaching that any person is inherently racist or sexist " as "the greatest first amendment sin".

The judges upheld a lower court's ruling that the law violated employers' constitutional rights to freedom of speech and expression. They were also critical of DeSantis for "exceeding the bounds" of the US constitution by imposing political ideology through legislation.

And we haven't even started on DeSantis punishing Disney because they are pro gay and he isn't.

@#217 ... It's just all the "fire hydrants are out of water" and "why isn't anyone using ocean water" and "what about the reservoir" are all specific to the Palisades fire. ...

Maybe one reason for not using the ocean water is ...

Two More CL-415 Super Scoopers On The Way To Fight Palisades Fire After One Damaged By Drone
www.twz.com

... Officials hope the aircraft hit by the drone will be repaired and ready to fly again early next week.

Cal Fire will receive two more CL-415 Super Scoopers from a Canadian non-profit to replace the one damaged Thursday by a drone strike as it was fighting the Palisades Fire, The War Zone has learned. This will take the total force of Super Scoopers currently available to Cal Fire from one to three. In addition, it is hoped that the aircraft, which has a hole in its left wing, will be back on line by early next week. The appearance of the drone in the firefighting area, despite restrictions, temporarily grounded all firefighting aircraft working that fire, as The War Zone was the first to report.

"The new planes will be sent in the middle of next week if the weather is good for flying," Stephane Caron, spokesman for the Quebec-based SOPFEU non-profit, told us on Friday. At issue, he said, are the winds and snow often present in Canada during this time of year that can often keep aircraft grounded. The organization has eight CL-415s and six older CL-215s, Caron explained. ...