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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, May 13, 2024

If he wins a second term in November, Donald Trump wants to covertly deploy American assassination squads into Mexico soon after he's sworn into office again, according to three people who've discussed the matter with the former U.S. president.

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... Both during and after his presidency, the presumptive 2024 Republican nominee has floated different ideas for bombing or invading Mexico in response to the American fentanyl crisis and to "wage WAR" on notorious drug cartels. As president, Trump even thought it was possible to bomb the cartels' drug labs, and then potentially pin the strikes on another country, according to his former defense secretary, Mark Esper.

What was once a fringe notion that senior Trump administration officials quickly moved to shut down has now become a mainstream GOP policy proposal, including among influential Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill and conservative think tanks.

Trump is currently campaigning for the White House on a public vow to, in his words, "make appropriate use of Special Forces, cyber warfare, and other overt and covert actions to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership, infrastructure, and operations." ...



#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-11 06:01 PM | Reply

Lo rompes, lo posees

#2 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-05-11 07:13 PM | Reply

@#2

Not sure what, "you break it, you own it" has to do with the topic at hand.


Can you elaborate?

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-11 07:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Trump even thought it was possible to bomb the cartels' drug labs"

MadBomber, wasn't that your job?

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-11 09:44 PM | Reply

Fentanyl originates in China, does that senile old pervert intend toinvade Chia? I think he's crazier than even I originally thought!

#5 | Posted by danni at 2024-05-11 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#5 ... Fentanyl originates in China ...

Ya need to stop inserting facts here.

But to your point... :)

US announces sweeping action against Chinese fentanyl supply chain producers (2023)
apnews.com

... The Biden administration took aim Tuesday at the fentanyl trafficking threat, announcing a series of indictments and sanctions against Chinese companies and executives blamed for importing the chemicals used to make the deadly drug.

Officials described the actions, which include charges against eight Chinese companies accused of advertising, manufacturing and distributing precursor chemicals for synthetic opioids like fentanyl, as the latest effort in their fight against the deadliest overdose crisis in U.S. history. The moves come one day before senior administration officials are set to visit Mexico, whose cartels are part of the global trafficking network, for meetings expected to involve discussion of the drug threat.

"We know that this network includes the cartels' leaders, their drug traffickers, their money launderers, their clandestine lab operators, their security forces, their weapons suppliers, and their chemical suppliers," Attorney General Merrick Garland said at a news conference. "And we know that this global fentanyl supply chain, which ends with the deaths of Americans, often starts with chemical companies in China." ...



#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-11 10:59 PM | Reply

The only thing he delivered after promising the moon to the middle class in 2016 was tax cuts for billionaires.

This is no different. He is promising this to appeal to his racist base and just like infrastructure and health care will never happen.

#7 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-05-13 09:56 AM | Reply

Um. OK then. Who will tell Der Dotard that Jason Borne is not a real person?

#8 | Posted by catdog at 2024-05-13 02:03 PM | Reply

Who will tell Der Dotard that Jason Borne is not a real person?

#8 | POSTED BY CATDOG

Or, more importantly, that he'd be held responsible for the inevitable footage of the bodies being hung, drug behind vehicles or whatever the cartels decide to do to desecrate them.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-13 02:25 PM | Reply

Not sure whats wrong with this idea

So long as Mexico agrees, which I suspect at the highest levels they would.

"Trump even thought it was possible to bomb the cartels' drug labs"

Seems reasonable as well.

"Fentanyl originates in China ..."

True, but it's used in all sorts of counterfeit pills, which are manufactured in Mexico.

Fentanyl is a useful medication.

#10 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-13 03:17 PM | Reply

Trump already sent Kill Teams to take care of Mike Pence.

Maybe he won't use Proud Boys this time.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-13 03:35 PM | Reply

Fentanyl is a useful medication.

#10 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

Fentanyl is a useful for China to use to further fuel the opioid crisis we currently have in America.

China's government is helping fuel the U.S. fentanyl crisis, House panel reveals

China's government "directly subsidizes the manufacturing and export of illicit fentanyl materials and other synthetic narcotics through tax rebates," the report says. "The CCP has never disclosed this program."
The CCP-run government even has ownership interest in multiple Chinese companies tied to illegal drug trafficking, the report says.
And despite China's intense internet surveillance, it allows sites to openly sell fentanyl precursors, the chemicals needed to produce the deadly drug.

...

Former U.S. attorney general Bill Barr called the findings "groundbreaking" as he testified before lawmakers.
"The Committee's work has uncovered persuasive evidence that the PRC and CCP are not just bystanders; they are the prime movers," he said in prepared remarks.
"They are knee deep in actively sponsoring, encouraging, and facilitating the production and export of fentanyl and fentanyl precursors for distribution in the United States," he added.

www.axios.com

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-05-13 03:43 PM | Reply

While I don't think it's much prescribed outside of medical facilities, Fentanyl is actually used for pain treatment during hospital stays. It was given to my wife after her shoulder replacement.

#13 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-05-13 04:45 PM | Reply

While I don't think it's much prescribed outside of medical facilities, Fentanyl is actually used for pain treatment during hospital stays
- whatskeft

Still a legitimate useage.

#14 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-13 05:41 PM | Reply

#12

While true, it is being used as part of a "recreational " drug, there is valid usage of it.

Meaning you can't stop China from manufacturing it.

#15 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-13 05:43 PM | Reply

"Meaning you can't stop China from manufacturing it."

Sounds like Trump is trying to help the China Fentanyl Export Business.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-13 05:48 PM | Reply

Why didn't Trump do this during his first term? He has already shown us what Trump presidency does.

#17 | Posted by dibblda at 2024-05-13 05:48 PM | Reply

------- gets all his great policy ideas from Tom Clancy novels or at least the wiki summaries of them.

#18 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-13 07:03 PM | Reply

The question I have is to what degree these cartel leaders are our enemies.

I certainly approved of Obama sending in a kill team to take out Bin Laden.

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-14 12:16 AM | Reply

This is a foolish gambit. We do a lot of trade with Mexico. You don't want to mess with this by acting all stupid and stuff. My guy tells me is that Trump is saying this to fuel the Xenophobia of his base. Just like the wall. Gotta spread the hatred for brown people.

#20 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-14 12:27 AM | Reply

#20

This is a reasonable explanation.

But it does sound like at least he is considering something.

This is what annoys me with the Democrat elite, they don't care. People are dying by the 10s of thousands...

Lumpers whine about Palestinian deaths..

Yet one could only assume cruelty to American citizens is the point.

#21 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-14 12:43 AM | Reply

Laura Mohr,

I don't see how going after cartel leaders would adversely affect trade with Mexico. Maybe it would, I'm just not seeing it.

#22 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-14 01:10 AM | Reply

#22

As stated above

Attacking the cartels would be approved by the Mexican government.

#23 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-14 01:35 AM | Reply

www.reuters.com

www.americasquarterly.org

The idea that the U.S. should use military force against drug cartels in Mexico has become increasingly popular among legislators and candidates from the Republican Party. During the second Republican debate, for example, Ron DeSantis promised to send the U.S. military into Mexico to take on the drug cartels. What could go wrong? Numerous analysts have pointed out that such talk of war is not only misguided and dangerous, but also has the potential to seriously strain U.S.-Mexico ties"precisely at a time when a functioning bilateral relationship is crucial to strengthening trade ties and addressing issues such as migration and transnational crime.

Yet while the proposal is unlikely to be put in practice considering the massive risks involved and the lack of appetite among the American public for another "forever war""the topic has the potential not only to negatively affect the United States' ties to Mexico, but to Latin America more generally. Just like in 2019, when U.S. President Trump called military intervention in Venezuela "an option", even Latin American leaders friendly to the United States will see no other option but to close ranks and unite behind the Mexican president. Back in 2019, even Colombia's President Ivn Duque and Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro, keen to deepen ties to Trump and eager to weaken Maduro, rejected any talk of U.S. military intervention outright"largely due to the dangerous precedent it would create. Despite their strong antipathy to Maduro, Brazil's military leaders thus sided with the Venezuelan leader.

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-14 01:55 AM | Reply

foreignpolicy.com

These policy proposals are among the most counterproductive, harmful, and just plain dumb foreign-policy ideas ever entertained in the discourse of the nation that brought us strategic masterstrokes such as invading Iraq. The loud discussion of it in Republican circles is already introducing unnecessary friction in the U.S.-Mexico relationship, which involves daily cooperation on a number of issues, from water rights to counterterrorism to trade.

#25 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-14 02:06 AM | Reply

"#24 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR"

Thank you for sharing that. Food for thought. My biggest criticism of that s tying these cartels to any Central American government. These cartels ostensibly operate outside of any government.

#26 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-14 02:06 AM | Reply

If he wants to 'bomb something', he needs
to refocus on nuking the next hurricane headed
for Mar-a-lago. That would be sweet...

glowing orange floridians...

#27 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-05-14 06:49 AM | Reply

This hairbrained idea is going to work as well as the GWOT.

As soon as one is killed, the next one pops up.

I don't see how going after cartel leaders would adversely affect trade with Mexico

You don't see how US troop invading another country would harm diplomatic relations?

#28 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-05-14 07:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sounds like the cartels would be well advised to handle him first.

#29 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-05-14 09:16 AM | Reply

The question I have is to what degree these cartel leaders are our enemies.

I certainly approved of Obama sending in a kill team to take out Bin Laden.

#19 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

So you're ok with the us using military means to influence the world, just not properly done, full scale action?

You want covert, half assed stuff that is the epitome of a tyrant?

#30 | Posted by jpw at 2024-05-14 09:34 AM | Reply

"Poor Mexico. So far from God, so close to the United States."
Porfirio Diaz
Survivor

#31 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2024-05-14 11:30 AM | Reply

" You want covert, half assed stuff that is the epitome of a tyrant?

#30 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2024-05-14 09:34 AM | FLAG: "

Not necessarily. I was thinking out loud. I'm not at all sure this is a good idea. It might be a bad idea. But it's not a new idea. Looking at the "drug war" that has been raging since the early 80's ... .

#32 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-14 01:00 PM | Reply

I certainly approved of Obama sending in a kill team to take out Bin Laden.

We don't share a border with Pakistan. If Mexico sent kill teams to the US to kill US citizens would you be cool with that?

#33 | Posted by JOE at 2024-05-14 01:13 PM | Reply

It might be a bad idea.

#32 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Might?

You MAGA slay me.

Let's have American troops/agents stumble into a firefight on Mexican territory, perhaps with Mexican military.

Act of war.

#34 | Posted by Zed at 2024-05-14 01:17 PM | Reply

Trump has a lot of plans for 2025.

Get back at rivals.

Fire millions of employees from the federal government who don't swear fealty to him.

Deport million of people living in America.

Invade Mexico.

Reclassify the LGBTQ+ as second class citizens.

Dismantle public education.

#35 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-05-14 01:50 PM | Reply

Looking at the "drug war" that has been raging since the early 80's ... .

At what point did the war on drugs send troops into Mexico?

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-05-14 01:54 PM | Reply

"MadBomber, wasn't that your job?"

God no.

This is idiotic.

You kill a cartel leader, and the lieutenants fight it out. Typically, the one who is the most brutal is the one who takes the big seat.

IMO, a better alternative would be shaping the leadership structure to ensure that the dude who wound up in charge was the one who was going to cause the least amount of havoc.

What I do know is that so long as you want your expensive drugs, someone will be there to ensure you get them.

#37 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-14 02:57 PM | Reply

"While I don't think it's much prescribed outside of medical facilities, Fentanyl is actually used for pain treatment during hospital stays. It was given to my wife after her shoulder replacement."

I went under twice in 2021. I'm pretty sure the doc said that the stuff he gave me right before going under, the stuff that made me giggle like a teenage girl, was fentanyl.

#38 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-14 02:59 PM | Reply

"The question I have is to what degree these cartel leaders are our enemies."

They're not. They're businessmen.

No one is forcing USans to buy drugs. And I am all for them being able to do so.

That aside, Trump is talking out of his ass. First, he would need to divert (very rare) IC assets to collect on the cartels and do target development. Second, he would need to demonstrate that they were a legal threat to US national security. Then you would need to get the targets through a legal review. Then, assuming that the host nations approved the attacks, he could order the attack. If they didn't, the US would likely be viewed much in the same light as Russia bombing Ukraine. Or maybe the Islamic Resistance going after Israeli civilians, although the Islamic Resistance were engaging in political violence rather than trying to achieve any sort of strategic military objective.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-14 03:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Did Trump's good and very real friend Hannibal Lector recommend this idea to him?

#40 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-05-14 06:12 PM | Reply

We don't allow citizens in prison to do that.

#41 | Posted by a_monson at 2024-05-15 05:20 AM | Reply

I've said this over and over, the locations of the labs are known, as well as the cartel leaders' mansions, and the routes used to transport the drugs to the border. a few well-placed missiles to take out these areas would do a lot to interrupt the operations. It appears that total inaction, as from the Biden administration, only serves to embolden the cartels, as their operations go unchecked.

#42 | Posted by gasman21 at 2024-05-15 07:40 AM | Reply

the locations of the labs are known,

42 | POSTED BY GASMAN21

In China.

#43 | Posted by Zed at 2024-05-15 09:31 AM | Reply

Mexico might take umbrage at tfg's armed gangs coming in to try and kill their armed gangs. And the next step, Preditor drones and the resulting 'collatoral damage' might even up the political crisis that would have been started by tfg's initial moves.

#44 | Posted by lduvall at 2024-05-15 09:53 AM | Reply

Yes, because the conservative Drug Policy approach on Supply rather than on Demand has always worked sooo well in the past.

#45 | Posted by kmtahir2023 at 2024-05-15 10:44 AM | Reply

First

#39 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2024-05-14 03:10 PM | FLAG:

Nah, you use the CIA to fund your own Cartel, you equip it with heavy weapons, MRAPs, drones, and a secure cellular comms backend. They degrade the existing cartels with their kill teams. For targets they can't reach, you launch a "Joint Operation" by strongarming the President of Mexico to sign off on it using dirt gathered by the NSA.

yes, that's a joke. We already did that for the most part in Bolivia and Colombia.

#46 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-05-15 01:21 PM | Reply

"I've said this over and over, the locations of the labs are known, as well as the cartel leaders' mansions, and the routes used to transport the drugs to the border."

None of those are valid military targets. Even if by chance the labs were declared to be valid targets, the people working within them would not be considered enemy combatants. Bombing them would be like bombing the banks the cartel does business with, or the factories that produce the precursor checmicals.

Thier mansions, similarly, would not be targetable unless they performed some military function. The best options would be persona-based targeting, where the cartel leaders themselves were the targets. Then you could theoretically bomb them any time at any place, although I doubt any JAG would sign off on it or military commander order the strike.

The US did bomb narcotics labs in AFG, but the rationale was that they were vital centers of gravity to the Taliban's funding effort. It was still a lengthy process to get approval.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-15 02:16 PM | Reply

These cartels ostensibly operate outside of any government.

#26 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

In some parts of Mexico, at least at the local level, the cartels are the government.

#48 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-05-15 02:56 PM | Reply

That aside, Trump is talking out of his ass. First, he would need to divert (very rare) IC assets to collect on the cartels and do target development. Second, he would need to demonstrate that they were a legal threat to US national security. Then you would need to get the targets through a legal review. Then, assuming that the host nations approved the attacks, he could order the attack.

#39 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Riiiigght. Has Trump ever seemed like a person who is willing to follow normal procedure?

Hell! He couldn't even carry out a peaceful transition of power when he lost an election!

Even the lying POS that he is, if Trump says he's going to attack targets in Mexico, I would not be surprised when he does it.

#49 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-05-15 03:04 PM | Reply

Trump says he's going to attack targets in Mexico, I would not be surprised when he does it.

He could just use nukes. No approval required. POTUS has sole authority to launch a nuclear attack and no one can stop him, and no one needs to approve it.

#50 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-15 03:09 PM | Reply

#50 | Posted by REDIAL

That's a scary thought.

Last time, he had babysitters who thwarted his crazy ideas in the national security realm.

This time, if reelected, he'd hand pick yes men and do whatever he wants to. And insiders reported Trump never read the PDB or anything else, and wasn't interested in learning anything either. A mentally ill narcissist with nukes at his disposal (and asked "if we have nukes why don't we use them") is a dangerous combination.

#51 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2024-05-15 04:12 PM | Reply

"Even the lying POS that he is, if Trump says he's going to attack targets in Mexico, I would not be surprised when he does it."

You're not the sharpest on this stuff.

Maybe you're smart on something...but government, constitution, and international law is not it.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-16 02:07 AM | Reply

"He could just use nukes. No approval required. POTUS has sole authority to launch a nuclear attack and no one can stop him, and no one needs to approve it."

Sort of. That order would need to be judged as a legal order.

Giving an order judged to be illegal is like giving no order at all. And anyone who followed the order could be prosecuted criminally.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-16 02:10 AM | Reply

Sort of. That order would need to be judged as a legal order.

Judged by whom? From what I have read there are only two people involved in ordering a nuclear attack. POTUS, who orders the attack on whatever target he wants for whatever reason he wants, and the Secretary of Defense, whose only role is to confirm that the attack is being ordered by POTUS.

That's what the "football" and "nuclear codes" are for... so SECDEF can confirm POTUS is actually giving the order when he's out golfing or something other than being in the SITROOM. Check them acronyms? I be an expert!

#54 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-16 02:33 AM | Reply

Redial,

I think, and I could be wrong, a nuclear attack could only be ordered after congress issues a declaration of war.

#55 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-16 02:50 AM | Reply

I think, and I could be wrong

You would be wrong. Congress has no input into launching a nuclear attack.

#56 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-16 03:12 AM | Reply

"Congress has no input into launching a nuclear attack.

#56 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2024-05-16 03:12 AM | REPLY"

A nuclear attack is an act of war. A major act of war. In order for POTUS to engage in an act of war congress must first declare we are at war. W Bush spent well over a year securing an AUMF from congress so he could ride into Iraq and engage in warfare. Since then, we've had some small and limited "war attacks" without congress authorizing the use of force. But nothing even remotely on the scope of a nuclear attack.

#57 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-16 03:20 AM | Reply

A nuclear attack is an act of war. A major act of war. In order for POTUS to engage in an act of war congress must first declare we are at war.

Not if he uses nukes. His call.

#58 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-16 03:36 AM | Reply

You may be right as this isn't something I've researched at all. However, I just find it extremely difficult to believe that we don't have more guardrails in place for such a massive act than just two people .

#59 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-16 03:42 AM | Reply

"Judged by whom?

At the very least, the CJA at USSTRATCOM would conducts a legal review of any potential targets to determine they were, in fact, valid military targets, and the use of nuclear weapons was proportional. Those targets may be judged at a higher level though.

"From what I have read there are only two people involved in ordering a nuclear attack."

Sort of. But we can't really get into that here, I think. But whomever is the execution authority, it's against pre-planned military targets that have already been deemed legal to strike.

"POTUS, who orders the attack on whatever target he wants for whatever reason he wants, and the Secretary of Defense, whose only role is to confirm that the attack is being ordered by POTUS."

That's not at all true. The president could not order a strike on anything, anywhere. The "football" contains the codes that would initiate the execution sequence, but it provides no ability (that I've ever been made aware of) to dynamically target nuclear weapons. The execution authority could only orders strikes against targets that had already been planned. That's different than with conventional weapons, which can easily be retargeted by the pilot in flight.

#60 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-16 12:22 PM | Reply

Here is some information you might find interesting:

cis.mit.edu

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-16 12:24 PM | Reply

"A nuclear attack is an act of war. A major act of war. In order for POTUS to engage in an act of war congress must first declare we are at war. W Bush spent well over a year securing an AUMF from congress so he could ride into Iraq and engage in warfare. Since then, we've had some small and limited "war attacks" without congress authorizing the use of force. But nothing even remotely on the scope of a nuclear attack."

The reason the policies reside they way they do has to do with the likely conditions under which a president would authorize the launch of nuclear weapons.

During the Cold War, the basic assumption was that the USSR would launch a massive strategic attack on the US. Time of Flight for those weapons is ~30 minutes. Strat warning and confirmation would eat up around ten of those minutes. There would be no time to bring congress together and get a declaration of war, and in 35 minutes most of congress is going to be ash.

Without the president being able to solely retain this authority, there would have been no practical way to hold the USSR at risk if they were thinking about using a massive attack option. MAD would not have worked.

#62 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-16 12:29 PM | Reply

#62. I get that. But that scenario is truly both defensive and deterrent. A planned strike is completely different.

#63 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-05-16 12:43 PM | Reply

Here is some information you might find interesting:

The president, and the president alone, possesses the sole authority to order a nuclear launch, and no one can legally stop him or her. Despite reports that Pelosi received assurances that there are safeguards in place in the event the president of the United States (POTUS) wants to launch a nuclear weapon, any such meaningful or effective safeguards would be illegal. Although it may be customary for the president to consult with his White House advisers, STRATCOM (US Strategic Command, the military command in charge of nuclear weapons), or the (civilian) secretary of defense, there is no legal requirement to do so on nuclear launch. Contrary to popular belief, neither the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff nor the White House chief of staff nor the (civilian) secretary of defense nor the STRATCOM chief nor the vice president are in the nuclear launch chain of command.
That's kinda what I thought.

#64 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-16 01:18 PM | Reply

#62. I get that. But that scenario is truly both defensive and deterrent. A planned strike is completely different.

#63 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

Even first use, "planned", is legal by the President, without consulting.

TedLieu in CA introduced HR669 to at least remove this Presidential authority, but it hasn't seen the light of day.

#65 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-16 01:37 PM | Reply

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