"Social Democracies are usually prosperous, happy democracies; even businesses and commercial interests do well."

That's because they have embraced social responsibility, along with capitalism.

Ask a lower income earner what they would think about having to pay higher taxes, and be subject to a VAT.

"The DSA is not promoting socialism."

The DSA is promoting something closer to communism. From the DSA Website:

"A Day Without Capitalism"

"Imagine taking a day off from work in a future without capitalism. It might not feel as badly needed as it does now. You enjoy your work; it's interesting to you, and you're well trained for it. You work as much as you are able and no more than needed, and you would control your own labor and see it going to good use. It's not just a job to pay the bills. Speaking of bills: you don't really have them anymore. You have no debt. You don't need health insurance. You don't pay a mortgage or have a landlord, because comfortable housing is a human right. Your retirement is publicly funded. Food, education, energy, medicine, and transportation aren't for-profit businesses; they are common goods and utilities.

OK, enough about bills. What do you do on your day off? Maybe in the morning, you walk your kids to school, run errands, or go to a doctor's appointment. In the afternoon, you might play a sport, practice a new skill, read, plan a trip. In the evening, you could meet up with friends or family and eat together, maybe go to the movies or down to the park. These are all familiar, everyday activities. A socialist day off could be like any good day now. But what if you were free to spend your time how you like without worrying about cost or dreading going back to work? What if you didn't have to think about paying rent or loans at the end of the month, or saving for college, or affording groceries?"

That doesn't sound much different than what Marx and Engels offered up in 1847, no?

It's also something very different than what you see in the social democracies across Europe.

"Yes, by law because they have to."

Because they are ruled by dictators?

Do you think the Scandic economic models would work without the support of the voters?

"When corporations paid a living wage in this country, that wouldn't have been a problem... and it wouldn't be a problem now if corporations are required to provide a living wage the kind of benefits they have in Nordic countries."

In terms of median household income, the US comes in 5th. Well above most European countries. Which means that the US working population is better postured to accept a VAT and higher taxes than Finland or Sweden. Norway is an outlier due to their SWF. But Norway is also the most expensive country I've ever been to.

I go to Norway a lot. When I'm there, it's Pizza and Hot Dogs. A beer is $15 at a restaurant. $5 at the grocery store. And that's the cheap stuff. I needed a notebook the last time I was up there. It was going to cost me $22.

"And VATs are offset by Benefits like year long+ birth holidays for parents, 6 week vacations, universal healthcare and education, and a dozen others."

I don't disagree. Like I've said before, I almost took a job up there. I wouldn't have been considering it if I thought my quality of life was going to deteriorate because of the move. Although the weather there should be a consideration.

I'm just not sure most Americans would be on board with a 25% VAT and 30% income taxes.

"And VATs are offset by Benefits like year long+ birth holidays for parents, 6 week vacations, universal healthcare and education, and a dozen others."

I don't disagree. Like I've said before, I almost took a job up there. I wouldn't have been considering it if I thought my quality of life was going to deteriorate because of the move. Although the weather there should be a consideration.

I'm just not sure most Americans would be on board with a 25% VAT and 30% income taxes.

"The opportunity to join the people who vote themselves the Happiest People in the World year after year after year... should at least be provided to the American people who just might decide that healthcare, edumacation (Bushism), actually livable, non-cohesive workplaces, family time, long vacations, and less corruption in their government is worth PAYING LESS than they are now while not having those things."

I think there are dozens of models that the US could look at for inspiration. From my vantage point, there don't seem to be many people in the US interested in going that direction.

"The problems are the republicans. The rest of us would thrive without them dragging us down."

Hmm. Should I assume you are advocating government restrictions on the Republican party?

Any other parties you think should be restricted?

"And people in the US have unfortunately recently decided to listen to rwing white nationalist authoritarian leaders who are fearmongers on race and ethnicity, hired buy Oligarchs to frighten them into submission."

So...let's pull the thread on that. Because I'm not sure what "rwing white nationalist authoritarian leaders who are fearmongers on race and ethnicity, hired buy Oligarchs to frighten them into submission." you might be referring to. And what their agenda is. Explaining that would better help me understand your position, particularly in a global context.

"Is that why corporate profits are at an all time high, because labor is so cheap?"

My labor isn't cheap? At least I don't think so.

Is yours?

I was actually just filling out a job application. Looking for $175K per year.

Do you think I should go higher, or am I to cheap?

I haven't actually decided if I want to take the plunge or not. Right now my job is more of a jobby.

"But none of it matters. Running for office on a DSA platform is fine"

Is it?

I think of myself as fairly open minded, but check out this site:

"Is someone going to roll back free trade? nope"

Ummm...Trump?

Tariffs?

"But let's bring this back to the subject......democrats think they understand socialism. republicans think they understand it as well."

It's a conspiracy.

The Repubs present Europe as being socialist because of the higher taxes. The progressives present Europe as being socialist because if it's expanded social programs.

The Repubs are winning this fight, if there could be a winner. The Repubs don't seem to care about expanding social programs. The progressives do. But only if it is at the expense of high income earners, and lower income earners are able to avoid taxation.

Like I said, conspiracy. It works for both sides.

#71

Sorry, Bruh.

Trump out populists anyone on the left.

You know they're pissed about that.

"Dishonest. You're only talking about INCOME TAX. State, property, etc etc are still paid by the poor. There's taxation everywhere."

Yup.

especially in Scandia.

If you think they don't pay taxes, think again. If you're advocating for a system where the rich pay for everything...you'll need to invent something new.

Good luck.

"Maybe thats because the rich have sucked all the wealth out of society and the poor are bankrupted by illness."

They sucked it all away, did they.

Walk me through that if you have a moment.

"Trump wants to Break the Government and make it Function only for the Wealthy, Reverse Robin Hood. Only the Morbidly Rich deserve anything. He shows this everyday."

Mah dude,

I think you're mistaken if Trump only supports the wealthy. Trump couldn't give a shit about them anymore than he cares about anyone else.

Trump is in this for Trump.

And to be fair, Trump did adopt what would have been considered a far-left populist model when it came to the economy. He's more Huey Long than Ronald Reagan.