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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 17, 2025

Not a single president in the history of the United States has ever asserted the authority to unilaterally deport someone outside of the procedures set by Congress until now.

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Holy crap. The DOJ is arguing that the President can unilaterally deport anyone he wants without ANY statutory authority, just on his inherent authority as President over national security. That is a terrifying claim to make and not one that has ever been recognized before in US history.

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-- Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@reichlinmelnick.bsky.social) March 15, 2025 at 4:12 PM

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More: Top Trump administration officials"including the president, vice president, attorney general, and secretary of state"openly celebrated the deportation of hundreds of Venezuelan immigrants over the weekend in defiance of a federal judge's order to halt the removals, which were carried out under a 1798 law that plainly states it is only operative in the context of a declared war.

U.S. Vice President JD Vance wrote late Sunday that "there were violent criminals and rapists in our country" and "President [Donald] Trump deported them." There was no due process for the more than 200 Venezuelans whom the Trump administration claims are gang members.

Vance's social media post, which came in response to reporting about the White House's acknowledgment that it ignored the court order blocking the deportations, was met with disgust and alarm.

"You are beyond vile," political scientist Norman Ornstein wrote. "You have no idea if the ones that were picked up and sent illegally to an El Salvador prison are all violent criminals. You abused the plain language of the law, gave them no due process, and defied a legitimate court order. This is American Gestapo."

#1 | Posted by qcp at 2025-03-17 11:52 AM | Reply

Expect more of this in the future. Especially if it isn't stopped now.

Any criticism of Israel will be illegal. Anti Semetic, you know.

American civil rights and civic freedoms are of less importance than the feelings of mass killers and their supporters.

NEVER AGAIN only Applies to Jews,Palestinians are Subhuman VERMIN to bre Annihilated for Fun and Profit.

Don't complain, your Masters Will Be Offended and we can't have THAT.

On your knees before your Master's, little people.

#2 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2025-03-17 01:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#2 ... On your knees before your Master's, little people. ...

... and is the "Master" your comment refers to your apparent Master, Pres Putin?

Is your current alias' comment just an acknowledgement that Pres Putin now seems to control Pres Trump?



#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 08:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Related ...

Judges raise concerns about threats to independence amid criticism of decisions, calls for impeachment (March 11, 2025)
www.cbsnews.com

... A pair of federal judges warned Tuesday of continued threats against members of the judiciary amid criticism leveled by Elon Musk and threats of impeachment by Republicans in Congress. They warned such attacks strike at judicial independence.

Judges Jeffrey Sutton and Richard Sullivan, who sit on the federal appeals courts, raised concerns about the increase in threats against judges in a call with reporters hosted by the Judicial Conference, the policymaking body for the federal judiciary.

Sullivan, who chairs the committee on judicial security, said the protection of judges and federal courthouses around the country is a top priority for the judiciary and recent cuts to the U.S. Marshals Service's budget is a concern. The agency provides security for federal courts and judges.

"Our system of government is premised on three independent branches and a judiciary that can function independently," he said. "That's what makes it work, and so it's crucial that people understand that." ...


#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 08:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sternly worded letters aren't going to make them comply. Are they going to make the Executive Branch arrest itself?

#5 | Posted by chuffy at 2025-03-17 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lex Rex... the Law is King, not Rex Lex where the King is Law.

Which is the very basis of constitutionalism.

www.google.com

Unless of course one is in a cult, then nothing else matters.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-17 08:19 PM | Reply

@#5 ... Are they going to make the Executive Branch arrest itself? ...

Yeah, that is my huge concern here.

Let's say that the Judicial Branch decided at some point that the Executive Branch is not following court orders.

Then, what happens?

#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 08:40 PM | Reply

"Then, what happens?"

We'll find out soon enough.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-17 08:41 PM | Reply

Max Kennerly @maxkennerly.bsky.social

The DOJ is arguing, on behalf of the President, that the President can scoop up anyone, put them on an airplane, and then no laws apply because no court has jurisdiction.

Whether the person is a citizen wouldn't change that because there's no point they could even tell a court they're a citizen.

bsky.app

#9 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2025-03-17 08:48 PM | Reply

Joyce White Vance
@joycewhitevance.bsky.social

If the Supreme Court ultimately agrees with what the gov't is arguing today, that the President has broad Article II powers that would permit it to deport people & there can be no judicial review, then literally no one is safe.

#10 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2025-03-17 09:05 PM | Reply

@#10 ... II powers that would permit it to deport people & there can be no judicial review, then literally no one is safe. ...

Yup.

Literally, no one.

My understanding ... these deportations of the "Venezuelan gang members" was done because they were "suspected" to be members of that gang.

No proof seemed to be offered.

They apparently were just "suspected" of being members of that gang.


So, if the Trump administration wins this court case, then anyone who is "suspected" of being a gang member can be deported?

What has Pres Trump said about his political opponents?


#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 09:20 PM | Reply

Manic Street Preachers - If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next (1998)
www.youtube.com

Lyrics excerpt ...
genius.com

...
The future teaches you to be alone
The present to be afraid and cold
So if I can shoot rabbits
Then I can shoot fascists
Bullets for your brain today
But we'll forget it all again
Monuments put from pen to paper
Turns me into a gutless wonder

[Chorus]
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
Will be next, will be next, will be next
...

#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 10:01 PM | Reply

Just a couple of days ago, y'all were bitching that Trump wasn't deporting them as fast as he promised.

#13 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2025-03-17 10:11 PM | Reply

"...y'all were bitching that Trump wasn't deporting them as fast as he promised."

Remind us when he said he'd violate due process, and ignore the courts. Which campaign speech?

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2025-03-17 10:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1


@#13 ... ust a couple of days ago, y'all were bitching that Trump wasn't deporting them as fast as he promised. ...

And your current alias' point is?

... that Pres Trump should just randomly round up and deport people in order to meet his campaign promises?

Is that how your current alias wants Pres Trump to meet his campaign promises?



#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 10:37 PM | Reply

5th Amendment

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

No longer applicable

Thanks magat scum. You destroyed our country

#16 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-17 10:37 PM | Reply

No person shall be ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; ...

#17 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-17 10:39 PM | Reply

No person shall be ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; .

No person shall be ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; .

No person shall be ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; .

No person shall be ... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; .

#18 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-17 10:39 PM | Reply

A whole lot of people need to be thrown in jail for contempt over this.
No fines. No warnings. No stark words.
Arrested and thrown in prison.
Now.

#19 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-17 10:41 PM | Reply

Another view ...

'Oopsie, too late' - US courts tested by Trump's latest deportations
www.bbc.com

... On Saturday, the US government put hundreds of Venezuelans on planes which swiftly took off for the accused gang members' ultimate destination: an El Salvadorean mega-prison.

A judge then ordered the planes back, telling the government's lawyers verbally that they should do so "however that's accomplished " whether turning around the plane or not."

But the court order was never heeded, the planes stayed the course.

"Oopsie ... too late," El Salvador's president, Nayib Bukele, posted on X after the deportees landed in his country. He included an emoji crying with laughter. The post was reshared by the White House's director of communications, Steven Cheung.

Little information has been provided about the identities of those detained, but a large number were Venezuelan and the Trump administration alleges the deportees -- apparently rounded up at the weekend -- are all members of Tren de Aragua, a notorious transnational criminal gang.

Attorneys for some of the deportees refute that claim and human rights groups have raised concerns about the lack of due process.

This incident has ignited fears that the White House is willing to openly defy a federal court order, setting it on a potential collision course with America's judicial branch.

In America's system of government checks and balances, federal courts in the judicial branch have the responsibility of reviewing actions by the president and the government agencies in the executive branch tasked with enacting laws passed by Congress. An order issued by a judge is binding - and noncompliance can result in civil and criminal sanctions.

It very rarely gets that far, however, as involved parties traditionally defer to a judge's ruling. ...



#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 10:42 PM | Reply

@#20 ... the lack of due process ...

Yup.

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 10:43 PM | Reply

#20 - that POS Marco Rubio reXhitted that "Oopsie... too late" tweet.

Marco's a traitor to our nation.

#22 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-17 10:45 PM | Reply

A whole lot of people need to be thrown in jail for contempt over this.
No fines. No warnings. No stark words.
Arrested and thrown in prison.
Now.

#19 | POSTED BY YAV A

Who exactly will enforce that?

Americans are getting a lesson in civics equivalent to an unexpected prostate exam

#23 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-17 10:48 PM | Reply

" A whole lot of people need to be thrown in jail for contempt over this.
No fines. No warnings. No stark words.
Arrested and thrown in prison.
Now.

#19 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2025-03-17 10:41 PM | FLAG: "

When Biden bragged about defying SCOTUS (in this case we are talking about a single federal judge with an ideological axe to grind, not SCOTUS) over student loan forgiveness, you all cheered it on.

In this case the flight reversal directive occurred when the planes were over international waters. Now, at least temporarily, any future flights need to be stayed that are applicable until this can work its way through the courts. I thought it was a mistake to invoke the 200 year old law (which requires a congressional declaration of war to be enacted) when the statutory authority to do this is already there. Unforced error by this administration.

#24 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-17 11:04 PM | Reply

In this case the flight reversal directive occurred when the planes were over international waters.

So what?

#25 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-03-17 11:10 PM | Reply

@#24 ... When Biden bragged about defying SCOTUS ...

Got a link?

thx.

#26 | Posted by lamplighter at 2025-03-17 11:16 PM | Reply

@#24 ... In this case the flight reversal directive occurred when the planes were over international waters. ...

That's what Pres Trump's Press Secretary said.

But Pres Trump's Press Secretary has also said that his crowd was the largest ever.

So, what to believe?

The legal issue at hand, as I understand it, and I am not a lawyer ...

The Judge issued a verbal order saying the deportation flights should return to the US.

But then, later, the Judge issues a written order, basically saying the same thing.

But, again, from what I understand, and I am not a lawyer ...

A written order from a Judge negates the verbal order from that Judge.

So, if a plane to deport people to Venezuela departs between the issuance of those two orders, the written order takes effect.

But that written order may not be effectual because the plane is already out of US airspace.

Again, I am not a lawyer.

All I try to do is make sense of all of this ....




#27 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-17 11:30 PM | Reply

Read where some Rep in Congress is starting impeachment proceedings against the judge and Musk applauding.

#28 | Posted by rosemountbomber at 2025-03-18 01:05 AM | Reply

"The Judge issued a verbal order saying the deportation flights should return to the US."

A judge has no authority over an aircraft in flight. That falls to the pilot in command of that aircraft. Even if the plane was in US airspace, what are the odds that ATC could have received orders to direct the aircraft to land in US territory?

It's also very likely that the plane had enough gas to get it there, but not more. Carrying more gas than you need is a waste of money.

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 03:21 AM | Reply

...what are the odds that ATC could have received orders to direct the aircraft to land in US territory?

From the White House? I'd say probably pretty good if they wanted to.

#30 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-03-18 03:46 AM | Reply

Sorry lib -------, we're getting illegal immigrants the ---- out of here.

#31 | Posted by THEBULL at 2025-03-18 07:21 AM | Reply

#29 - So a pilot could fly through restricted airspace, refuse to land when ordered, and so many other things because:
91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

You're out on quit the limb with your interpretation of "operation of" when the Pilot is required to obey federal laws, is licensed by the FAA, and has to abide by the rules and laws - unless an emergence causes a deviation, which must then be noted (b and c):
www.ecfr.gov

@#24 ... When Biden bragged about defying SCOTUS ...
Got a link?

No link because Biden obeyed the judge's ruling - unlike Trump and his admin who are openly defying and stating they will not listen to or do as instructed by any judge if they don't like the ruling. Of course they demand that everyone else comply if the ruling is in their favor.

#32 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 08:24 AM | Reply

"Sorry lib -------, we're getting illegal immigrants the ---- out of here."

At the rate you're going, they'll all be gone in what, thirty years or so.

Are you sure the juice is worth the squeeze? How many Americans, as a percentage, is it okay to accidentally deport?

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 09:32 AM | Reply

Hm. Good point, Snoofy. Let's do some math:
11,000 deported last month.
An estimated 11,000,000 (likely) or 25,000,000 (Earth II)
11,000*12=132,000 deportations/year

11,000,000/132,000=83 years.
25,000,000/132,000=189 years.

#34 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 09:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Don't worry, everyone!

The Dems will do nothing as usual so we are...screwed.

#35 | Posted by Sycophant at 2025-03-18 10:58 AM | Reply

I'm just glad some Democrats have figured out that Republicans aren't going to listen to you anymore and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Keep having your activist judges flail there arms in the air and we will just keep laughing.

#36 | Posted by Bluewaffles at 2025-03-18 11:50 AM | Reply

- Republicans aren't going to listen

The only thing Republicans listen to is the sound of coins in their pockets... and whatever lies their cult leader vomits up on any given day.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-18 11:56 AM | Reply

"now seems to control Pres Trump?"

Seems to control? More like "obviously owns."

#38 | Posted by danni at 2025-03-18 12:38 PM | Reply

#32

Fair enough.

What federal law did these pilots break?

They filed a flight plan and took off. The only thing that could have got them in trouble is they refused an order by ATC to land, which would be a legal thing, or if their dispatcher ordered them to land. Of course if it's the dispatcher, it would be on the company to manage affairs on the ground once the plane landed.

#39 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 01:08 PM | Reply

" What federal law did these pilots break?"

Let's back up one step: do the pilots have to follow the judge's order or not?

And what about the crew on the ground? Do They have to follow the order, or do they get a veto?

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2025-03-18 01:30 PM | Reply

Also, I'm curious about the timeline. Based on WH statements, the planes should've arrived while it was still light out.

Do you often find pilots on a direct flight spending extra hours in the air for no reason? Or do you think the White House is lying in this case?

#41 | Posted by Danforth at 2025-03-18 01:34 PM | Reply

"A judge has no authority over an aircraft in flight. "

But he does have authority over whomever is in charge of the pilot and gave him his orders.

So you don't arrest the pilot. You charge the one who ignores a judges order.

And the fact that we are paying $6 million to Venezuela to house prisoners should also be investigated.

If these are not American citizens then are we responsible for paying for their incarnations in another country? Supposedly the country of their origin?

Sounds like fraud waste and abuse to me.

#42 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-03-18 02:22 PM | Reply

liberty is being squeezed and threatened from both ends.

#43 | Posted by ichiro at 2025-03-18 03:11 PM | Reply

Fair enough.

Thanks for acknowledging that.

What federal law did these pilots break?

Federal Contempt of Court.

#44 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 03:56 PM | Reply

My understanding is that the pilots as final authority, are responsible for violating the order of the Judge. If they weren't notified of the order, then those that withheld that notification would be responsible and the contempt order would apply to them, and so forth.

The order of a Federal judge is not optional. It is a Federal order and violating it is a violation of Federal authority (contempt), and the violator may be imprisoned. You do NOT FAFO on contempt. Or go ahead and you'll FO.

#45 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 04:00 PM | Reply

"Let's back up one step: do the pilots have to follow the judge's order or not?"

Absolutely not. A judge has no authority to radio a pilot and tell them to do anything. I would have ignored a call like that. Sounds like spoofing.

"And what about the crew on the ground? Do They have to follow the order, or do they get a veto?"

I'm not sure what you mean by the "ground crew." The only people I can think of in this case who would make a difference would be ATC and whomever you file the flight plan with. Once the flight plan is filed, ATC has no reason not to execute that plan. It's basically an order. The flight crew and ATC are obligated to follow it. This is a very unusual situation. Jets aren't normally turned around unless there is a conflict or terrorist attack-something like that that is very visible and recognizable. This would have probably required a representative of DHS or CBP to contact the FAA, determine where the plane was, and contact the controlling ARTCC. Because this is very much an in-extremis directive, proof would have likely been requested.

Once the aircraft leaves US airspace, it would be up to the dispatcher to direct any changes to the flight plan. And even then, the change would depend on the amount of fuel on the jet.

#46 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:23 PM | Reply

"A judge has no authority to radio a pilot and tell them to do anything"

I'm pretty sure the Judge does have that authority, if the pilot is a Federal employee, and the pilot is at work, and the pilot is acting in violation of a Federal order.

Tell me why that's wrong.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 04:24 PM | Reply

A judge has no authority to radio a pilot and tell them to do anything.

The judge isn't and wouldn't do that. Those that ordered the action are responsible, and that includes ordering the pilot to turn around. If the pilot refuses them, that can still land that pilot in jail for disregarding a legal order. Just like violating restricted airspace, operating in an unsafe manner, endangering other's lives, and on and on and on.

Like Danforth said - step back and look at the chain of "command" and what's going on before you go to the pilot. Honestly, the pilot is down the chain on this.

#48 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 04:30 PM | Reply

"Do you often find pilots on a direct flight spending extra hours in the air for no reason? Or do you think the White House is lying in this case?"

I certainly wouldn't put it past the WH to lie, but I have no idea. I haven't seen the timeline, but I would love to if you have it.

I'm not 100% confident, but I do think that ADSB data is masked for DOJ flights and Alien Transportation Services. So the WH rep may have been truthful when telling the judge that they were unable to divulge flight plan data while the plan was till enroute to its destination. There may be some pay version of an app that give it to you, but I know that the DOJ stuff always pops up went I enter DAL (Delta Airlines), but it doesn't provide any data.

#49 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:35 PM | Reply

"The judge isn't and wouldn't do that. Those that ordered the action are responsible, and that includes ordering the pilot to turn around. If the pilot refuses them, that can still land that pilot in jail for disregarding a legal order."

Yes.

If over US airspace and directed to land, the pilot would very much be responsible for refusing to land. It's highly unlikely a pilot would ever do that. They would have no reason to. Beyond the control of US ARTCC, it would be up to the dispatcher to recall the aircraft, and then it would depend on whether or not the aircraft could be safely recalled.

#50 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:38 PM | Reply

"Tell me why that's wrong."

You're driving in your work car and someone calls you claiming to be a judge tells you to do something different than your employer told you to do.

Would you do it?

Is that all it takes to give you orders? Claim to be a judge?

And just for funsies, what if the judge had jumped on the company frequency and ordered the jet to turn around, and then a few minutes later another person cam up freq claiming to be a judge and told them to continue mission?

#51 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:43 PM | Reply

The Dispatcher calls you and tells you to turn around because a Judge has Ordered you to turn around if at all possible. What do you do?

Bail out?

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-18 04:47 PM | Reply

"Like Danforth said - step back and look at the chain of "command" and what's going on before you go to the pilot. Honestly, the pilot is down the chain on this."

Back when I used to fly bombers, there were lots of times when we would be flying through some sort of Oceanic Control Area and they would tell us to hold, or that we couldn't enter, or whatever. We ignored that ----. Under ICAO, they lack the authority to do that. When pilots start blindly following the orders of anyone who comes up on the frequency, we have problems.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:49 PM | Reply

You're driving in your work car and someone calls you

Someone? Anyone can call a pilot? Anyone? No checks, nothing? Do pilots get all kinds of prank calls? This is rather fascinating to me. I want to know!

#54 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 04:50 PM | Reply

"The Dispatcher calls you and tells you to turn around because a Judge has Ordered you to turn around if at all possible. What do you do?"

You turn around and follow the direction of your dispatcher. If they're good, they work out the details for you. But even if they tell you to land at Possum Pouch regional airport, you do so and go park in the holding area until someone can come and collect the criminals. During the evacuation of Afghanistan, there were Afghans who sat in C-17s for hours at Al Udeid because there was nobody there who could do anything with them.

And I don't think you can bail out of a 757. I've never heard of that.

#55 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:52 PM | Reply

"Someone? Anyone can call a pilot? Anyone? No checks, nothing? Do pilots get all kinds of prank calls? This is rather fascinating to me. I want to know!"

Yes. It's called spoofing.

You could go buy a radio and call a pilot right now.

You'd get sent to prison for it, but the NorKs do it all the time. Or at least they used to.

#56 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:54 PM | Reply

I think if you wanted to, you could probably go buy a radio and talk to astronauts in space if you wanted to. If they moved off of secure networks. Which I'm pretty sure they can.

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 04:55 PM | Reply

OCA sorta answered #54 - however my understanding is ATC order/effectively change a flight plan in-flight and that pilot is required to comply. They can ask for clarification, but that's it. That's why you, when you filed your flight plan over an OCA you could ignore that ----.

#58 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 04:56 PM | Reply

- You turn around and follow the direction of your dispatcher.

Do we know that the dispatcher was not involved or consulted?

#59 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-18 04:56 PM | Reply

"DOJ again refuses to share info with judge on Venezuelan deportation flights
- 03/18/25 1:45 PM ET

The Justice Department (DOJ) once again rebuffed a federal judge's demands to provide a rationale for why it was declining to provide information about deportation flights of Venezuelan migrants.

The Tuesday filing escalates the battle between the Trump administration and Judge James Boasberg after he convened a hearing to determine whether officials violated his order by continuing deportation flights he ordered to be halted.

After a remarkable exchange Monday evening in which a DOJ attorney said he was "not authorized" to provide more information on the flights, Boasberg ordered the Justice Department to detail what legal authorities it was relying on in declining to provide evidence it complied with his order."

thehill.com

The DOJ aka Donald's Odd Jobbers... only obey the Lyin' King..

#60 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-18 05:11 PM | Reply

"Do pilots get all kinds of prank calls?"

It's doable, but unless you sound just like ATC they're going to ignore you.

And if you do manage to issue orders to an aircraft that are mistaken as coming from ATC, ATC will also hear it, and will tell the pilot to ignore those orders and to only respond to the sound of the real ATC's voice. This happened in London a few years back when some idiot started talking to planes on a walkie-talkie or whatever. Normally, you can't transmit on those frequencies on home consumer equipment, I don't think.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 05:15 PM | Reply

Won't be long until Martial Law puts an end to all this "judicial review" nonsense!

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 05:16 PM | Reply

You can buy a Baofeng portable radio for about $50 that will transmit on almost any VHF frequency.

#63 | Posted by Redial at 2025-03-18 05:40 PM | Reply

#58

US ARTCC and global equivalents control air traffic. They tell them what to do. OCA is only responsible for deconfliction, but are supposed to follow IACO regulations.

If a US ARTCC region controller tells you to land-you land. If they tell you to climb to a different altitude, or change your heading, you do it. Otherwise, you get "violated." Like it sounds, that's not a good thing.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 05:43 PM | Reply

#60

Like I said previously, I'm pretty sure that DOJ and Alien Return flight plans are ADSB blocked. I don't know at what level that information is releasable, but up until the aircraft lands it is held at some restricted level.

Once the flight lands the information is readily available. I'm not a LEO guy-I'm DoD, but if you really wanted to find out the flight plan, I don't know how you could totally hide it without getting really weird.

#65 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-18 05:47 PM | Reply

- without getting really weird

Ah, I see you've met Trump's DoJ lawyers.

#66 | Posted by Corky at 2025-03-18 05:52 PM | Reply

Martial Law as spelled out in Project 2025.

#67 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2025-03-18 06:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're probably right

#68 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2025-03-18 06:22 PM | Reply

69!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#69 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2025-03-18 06:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nothing will happen. No law we have has ever stopped trump, he has threatened judges and juries and the worst thing that happened is was a fine. 34 felonies and no jail time. 25 women accused him of assault or worse, he gets a fine for defamation he'll probably never pay. And this was all before a SCOTUS trump and McConnel packed ruled that trump can do anything he wants. It's open season on the courts now and they're to blame.

Our system is completely dead.

#70 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-18 06:29 PM | Reply

It's a fitting ending.

But it didn't have to end at all.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 06:45 PM | Reply

It is a fitting end. We escaped a tyrannical mad king and a few hundred years later installed one of our own.

#72 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-18 06:47 PM | Reply

astronauts back safely. Really amazing to see the technology. But no, the left is fuming about it because it was done by SpaceX. It would only be a story to them if it blew up. There is a reason they only have a 27% approval rating.

#73 | Posted by fishpaw at 2025-03-18 06:54 PM | Reply

Because you lie so much? Is that why?

#74 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 07:01 PM | Reply

"But no, the left is fuming about it because it was done by SpaceX."

Is the left in the room with you right now?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-18 07:17 PM | Reply

You turn around and follow the direction of your dispatcher.

Depends upon the orders, and what level they were issued, the pilot in command is the sole arbiter, and ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight/airplane.
You may catch alot of ---- for disregarding ATC or a dispatcher, but as PIC you do have the right to reply UNABLE.

Someone? Anyone can call a pilot? Anyone? No checks, nothing? Do pilots get all kinds of prank calls? This is rather fascinating to me. I want to know!
#54 | POSTED BY YAV

Call them? No.

My understanding is that the pilots as final authority, are responsible for violating the order of the Judge.

My understanding reading the law as best I could, SCOTUS laid down it has no say in the matter of the Alien Act.

Just like an airplane, if the pilot (president) deems the the orders are against the safety of the flight (gang members) he/she can disregard those orders.

Under authority of the Act of 1798, the President, on July 14, 1945, directed the removal from the United States of all alien enemies "who shall be deemed by the Attorney General to be dangerous to the public peace and safety of the United States."

As Congress explicitly recognized in the recent Administrative Procedure Act, some statutes "preclude judicial review." Act of June 11, 1946, 10, 60 Stat. 237, 243. Barring questions of interpretation and constitutionality, 164*164 the Alien Enemy Act of 1798 is such a statute.

A war power of the President not subject to judicial review is not transmuted into a judicially reviewable action because the President chooses to have that power exercised within narrower limits than Congress authorized.
scholar.google.com

Really does seem like the court stepped over the line.

#76 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-18 07:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Alien Sedition Act of 1798 is not applicable to the issue of complying to the order of the court. They are two different issues.

The Attorney General can not make any determination regarding "alien enemies" without a declaration of war and without the direction of the President: supreme.justia.com

"Under authority of the Alien Enemy Act of 1798, which empowers the President, whenever there is a "declared war" between the United States and any foreign country, to provide for the removal of alien enemies from the United States, the President, on July 14, 1945, directed the removal of all alien enemies "deemed by the Attorney General to be dangerous" to the public safety. The Attorney General, on January 18, 1946, ordered removal of petitioner, a German national, from the United States. Challenging the validity of the removal order, petitioner instituted habeas corpus proceedings in the Federal District Court to secure his release from detention under the order."

Not even the Trump admin is resting its justification on that. It is, instead, pretending it can use the Alien Sedition Act because we are "being invaded." That is, of course, laughable since we are not at war and in no danger of being invaded.

#77 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-18 10:15 PM | Reply

Sorry, I missed this request until now

" Got a link?

thx.
#26 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2025-03-17 11:16 PM | FLAG: "

x.com

#78 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 12:02 AM | Reply

"Depends upon the orders, and what level they were issued, the pilot in command is the sole arbiter, and ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight/airplane.
You may catch alot of ---- for disregarding ATC or a dispatcher, but as PIC you do have the right to reply UNABLE."

That's absolutely true.

I don't think there is any circumstance where a pilot would be held accountable for violating a judges order. The judge has no authority over the plane while it was in flight. The only way a pilot could get in trouble would be violating ATC orders.

#79 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-19 02:20 AM | Reply

#76

You can definitely call a pilot on any VHF radio. Fin yourself a UHF radio and you can talk to military traffic.

And back in my B-52 days we would call HAM radio operators on HF and have them do a telephone connection with our families. Something to do when you got bored.

#80 | Posted by madbomber at 2025-03-19 02:23 AM | Reply

Sorry, I missed this request until now

" Got a link?

thx.
#26 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2025-03-17 11:16 PM | FLAG: "

x.com

#78 | Posted by BellRinger

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

too farking funny, idiot jeff gets his news from -------!

Hey jeff, even using your MORONIC logic

The SC exceeded their authority to knock down SLF

SOOOOO Biden used ANOTHER legislation to forgive student loans, unfortunately for fewer people

You do understand that courts rule on specific laws, right?

You are seriously the butt to a really bad joke.

#81 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 08:57 AM | Reply

"When Biden bragged about defying SCOTUS (in this case we are talking about a single federal judge with an ideological axe to grind, not SCOTUS) over student loan forgiveness"

What part of Biden's actions on Student Loans were carried out in defiance of any Court's ruling?

None of it.

You're lying, as usual.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 09:09 AM | Reply

en.wikipedia.org

Biden initially tried HEROES Act

SC exceeded it's authority and said he couldn't do that

SOOOOO

President Biden responded to the Supreme Court's decision by pledging a new effort to cancel student loans by utilizing the Higher Education Act of 1965.

See, that is a WHOLE other law

In conclusion, jeff has, once again, been proved 100% wrong.
Jeff will NOT admit his mistake
Jeff will continue to lie about this, like he does with everything.

#83 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 09:09 AM | Reply

"Jeff will NOT admit his mistake"

JeffJ won't even admit his name.

Should I deadname him? I don't think it makes any difference at this point. He's been dead as a personality for what, eight years now?

Remember how he used to talk about the marching band, and what meats he was smoking? Remember how he kinda seemed like maybe sort of an okay person, before he joined the Trump Cult?

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 09:25 AM | Reply

This hilarious.

Turns out the judges daughter works for 5013c that advocates that gives criminal illegal aliens and gang members legal advice.
www.partnersforjustice.org

These judges really don't know how powerless/disqualifying this makes them look.

Regarding Biden, he had a political incentive to make it sound like he was standing up to a conservative-controlled court to deliver student debt relief, these Lumpers ate it up, as usual.

They didn't know that when he said it, and actually thought he disobyed the courts, until Trump, then they had to reasearch the facts.

He simply used a different pre-existing programs.

You can definitely call a pilot on any VHF radio.

Its not a call in the normal definition of a call (person to person), its a radio broadcast
You would communicate with them the same manner as you do GA, its a open communication.
The plane has a N-Number or a callsign, which is unique identifier, typically a combination of letters and numbers, used to identify a radio station, operator, vehicle, or organization in broadcasting and radio communications.

As you stated, only in Ham radio is it called a "call", HAM radio is being disassembled and no longer used for emergency communications. I don't understand why, but that is the case.

#85 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 09:58 AM | Reply

It's hilarious that MAGAt loser IAMRUNT is unaware that Los Angeles in located in California.

#86 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2025-03-19 10:01 AM | Reply

Just a couple of days ago, y'all were bitching that Trump wasn't deporting them as fast as he promised.

#13 | POSTED BY LFTHNDTHRDS

Of course, all this stupid ---- has is a whine about a distorted recollection of what others said while remaining silent regarding the blatantly unconstitutional arguments this administration is making.

Oh, and, of course, silence on every one of us being right when we predicted what this administration would be.

GFY s^*+heap.

#87 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-19 10:14 AM | Reply

Turns out the judges daughter works for 5013c that advocates that gives criminal illegal aliens and gang members legal advice.
www.partnersforjustice.org

These judges really don't know how powerless/disqualifying this makes them look.

#85 | Posted by oneironaut

Daughter works to ensure alleged illegal aliens have due process.

Law says alleged illegal aliens have due process.

OneIronNut: "Following the law is disqualifying!"

You have to be this stupid to be a Trumper or Republican these days.

#88 | Posted by Sycophant at 2025-03-19 11:25 AM | Reply

Hobby pilot 1lumper explaining aircraft radios to LTC (Ret) Madbomber is hilarious.

#89 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-03-19 12:19 PM | Reply

Is the left in the room with you right now?

#75 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

They are in his head fuming!

See the smoke coming out his ears?

That's them ebil Dems running around inside his head fuming all over the place again.

#90 | Posted by donnerboy at 2025-03-19 12:42 PM | Reply

The courts need to set the tone for the rest of his tenure.

#91 | Posted by fresno500 at 2025-03-19 12:54 PM | Reply

I see jeff arrived promptly to admit his error and pledge to do better.

#92 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 04:59 PM | Reply

" too farking funny, idiot jeff gets his news from -------!"

A staffer tweeted that from Biden's X account.

Fact is, Biden's student loan vote buying scheme got shot down by SCOTUS and he continued it anyway, claiming some other BS justification.

#93 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 06:11 PM | Reply

"Biden's student loan vote buying scheme"

#94 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-19 06:33 PM | Reply

Biden continued under the constraints of the SCOTUS ruling.
You may not like it, but that is a fact.

#95 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-19 06:35 PM | Reply

#93 | Posted by BellRinger

This statement is partially accurate but oversimplifies a complex situation. The Supreme Court did strike down President Biden's initial student loan forgiveness plan in June 2023[1][5]. However, the administration did not simply continue the same program. Instead, they pursued alternative approaches to address student loan debt within legal boundaries.

After the Supreme Court's ruling, the Biden administration developed new initiatives, such as the Saving on a Valuable Education (SAVE) plan, which aimed to reduce the burden on borrowers through different mechanisms[2]. This plan faced legal challenges as well, with the Supreme Court refusing to revive it in August 2024[2].

The administration has also approved targeted loan forgiveness through existing programs like income-based repayment and borrower defense to repayment[4]. As of January 2025, the Biden administration had approved $188.8 billion in student loan forgiveness for 5.3 million borrowers through various means[4].

It's worth noting that the characterization of these efforts as a "vote buying scheme" is subjective and politically charged. The administration has argued that these programs are intended to address issues in the student loan system and provide relief to borrowers[4].

More recently, under the Trump administration, there have been significant changes to student loan programs, including pausing applications for income-driven repayment plans and altering the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program[7]. These changes have resulted in increased payments for some borrowers and uncertainty about the future of loan forgiveness programs[7].

Citations:
[1]
www.texastribune.org
[2] www.nbcnews.com
[3] www.foxbusiness.com
[4] www.nasfaa.org
[5] www.scotusblog.com
[6] www.nasfaa.org
[7] www.newsweek.com
[8] www.reuters.com
[9] www.insidehighered.com
[10] www.bankrate.com
[11] www.ncsl.org
[12] www.highereddive.com
[13] www.scotusblog.com
[14] www.whitehouse.gov

Swallow it.

#96 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 07:00 PM | Reply

Fact is, Biden's student loan vote buying scheme got shot down by SCOTUS and he continued it anyway, claiming some other BS justification.

#93 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER

#97 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-19 09:36 PM | Reply

Oh, and, of course, silence on every one of us being right when we predicted what this administration would be.

Yup. Jeff is more interested in his team "winning" than the actual constitution, which he uses as a cudgel when a democrat is in office.

#98 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 09:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BullBringer hates the idea of Americans getting a free education.

Especially Brown and Black Americans.

#99 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-19 09:42 PM | Reply

Yup. Jeff is more interested in his team "winning" than the actual constitution, which he uses as a cudgel when a democrat is in office.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 09:39 PM | Reply

THIS!!!!!!!!!!! SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!

#100 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 09:43 PM | Reply

BullBringer doesn't believe Trump has committed a single crime, ever.

But he knows the Bidens are a family crime syndicate and Obama had a 3rd term from 2021-2025.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-19 09:46 PM | Reply

" Yup. Jeff is more interested in his team "winning" than the actual constitution, which he uses as a cudgel when a democrat is in office.

#98 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 09:39 PM | FLAG:

Scrolling up ... .

, at least temporarily, any future flights need to be stayed that are applicable until this can work its way through the courts ... .

#24 | POSTED BY BELLRINGER AT 2025-03-17 11:04 PM | FLAG: "

Do you and your clapping seal, Laura Mohr, want to retract your BS?

#102 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 09:48 PM | Reply

Throw Clownshack into your little axis as well.

#103 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 09:48 PM | Reply

Please. trump owns the SCOTUS, they gave him immunity ffs. It will "work its way through the courts" in trumps favor always.

You know that, so quit pretending to be a neutral observer, it's sickening and laughable.

#104 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 09:55 PM | Reply

Do you and your clapping seal, Laura Mohr, want to retract your BS?

#102 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 09:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

This from the guy who thinks Obama had a third term. LOL

#105 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 09:55 PM | Reply

" Please. trump owns the SCOTUS, they gave him immunity ffs. It will "work its way through the courts" in trumps favor always.

You know that, so quit pretending to be a neutral observer, it's sickening and laughable.

#104 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 09:55 PM | REPLY"

Of the 9 jurists 3 were appointed by Trump and Barrett hasn't been "reliable".

You are deflecting too, BTW. You accused me of rooting for a team "winning" over valuing the Constitution. When I blew that BS out of the water with my own words up thread you tried moving the goalposts. Just admit you were wrong. It's okay. I make mistakes too. As humans, we all do.

OTOH, keep falsely assigning positions to me and I will continue to rub your nose in your own feces.

#106 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:08 PM | Reply

" This from the guy who thinks Obama had a third term. LOL

#105 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 09:55 PM | FLAG: "

Who was running the Executive branch during the last 4 years?

#107 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'm observing 20 years of your posts accurately, jeff. When there's a constitution destroying president like George W Bush or Trump you don't care.

When Obama and Biden were in office you were suddenly a constitutional scholar and screaming with your hair on fire (over student loans LOL)

Now we have trump again and you're complaining about Biden (which is a deflection and a whataboutism in this thread) Trump is smashing our amendments with impunity and not a peep from you.

#108 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Who was running the Executive branch during the last 4 years?

#107 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Joe Biden and his cabinet. Any other answer is a conspiracy theory and not serious.

#109 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:12 PM | Reply

keep falsely assigning positions to me

I remember you be pro torture after 9/11 and deflecting that the taliban was worse than us. FO.

You don't give a crap about the constitution unless it serves your immediate political needs.

#110 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:13 PM | Reply

With all of the straw you are amassing please do not even consider lighting a match, the result will be a fire so massive that the most recent California wildfires will look like someone flicking a butane lighter by comparison.

I'll say it another way, I am not going to defend a position that you've falsely assigned to me that I've never taken.

Now, go get bent, jagoff.

#111 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:14 PM | Reply

You forget that I've been reading your crap for 20 years, jeff.

#112 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:15 PM | Reply

I'll say it another way, I am not going to defend a position that you've falsely assigned to me that I've never taken.

You're a liar, pro torture boy. You were extolling the virtues of water boarding for years after 9/11.

And you still have no ------- clue what a strawman is, even though half your posts stink of them.

#113 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:16 PM | Reply

" Joe Biden and his cabinet. Any other answer is a conspiracy theory and not serious.

#109 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:12 PM | FLAG: "

Joe Biden wasnt mentally capable of running anything. And he certainly wasn't setting policy and calling the shots.

I do agree that certain members of his cabinet were probably runn8ng things but who was actually on charge? It clearly wasn't Biden.

#114 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:17 PM | Reply

Joe Biden wasnt mentally capable of running anything.

Thanks, Doctor.

His speeches surpassed your writing ability now.

#115 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:19 PM | Reply

Again, more falsely assigned positions.

It's desperation - losing the argument so create a straw man, Knock it down, and then proclaim victory.

If that's all you've got then you are clearly a weak man.

#116 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:20 PM | Reply

I'm observing 20 years of your posts accurately, jeff. When there's a constitution destroying president like George W Bush or Trump you don't care.

When Obama and Biden were in office you were suddenly a constitutional scholar and screaming with your hair on fire (over student loans LOL)

Now we have trump again and you're complaining about Biden (which is a deflection and a whataboutism in this thread) Trump is smashing our amendments with impunity and not a peep from you.

#108 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:11 PM | Reply

Let's not forget that every time Dubya violated the Constitution Jeff would deflect to Clinton too. I vividly remember those days.

#117 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:20 PM | Reply

Again, more falsely assigned positions.

Are you playing the "I'm not jeff" card again?

Fine. Type with a straight face that you don't believe in water boarding because it's unconstitutional. Write it and I'll apologize.

#118 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:22 PM | Reply

@#114 ... Joe Biden wasnt mentally capable of running anything. ...

Please provide the medical evidence you have for that conclusion.


#119 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-19 10:22 PM | Reply

" His speeches surpassed your writing ability now.

#115 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:19 PM | FLAG: "

My apologies ... in his June debate against Trump he absolutely knocked it put of the park. His own party forcing him off the ticket as a result was a figment of our imagination.

#120 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:22 PM | Reply

Tell me you're not pro GITMO, jeff. Because it violates Habeas Corpus.

#121 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:23 PM | Reply

@#118 ... Are you playing the "I'm not jeff" card again? ...

When that's all it's got, that what seems to be played.

#122 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-19 10:23 PM | Reply

Please provide the medical evidence you have for that conclusion.


Biden had covid during a debate and did badly.

There's jeff's "evidence" that Obama was in charge for 4 years. LMAO.

#123 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:24 PM | Reply

I don't believe in water boarding. I don't believe that torture is an effective method for obtaining reliable information from thick-skinned enemies. Interrogation methods have gotten so sophisticated that inflicting torturous pain has become obsolete as a means of obtains valuable information.

#124 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:25 PM | Reply

I don't believe that torture is an effective method for obtaining reliable information

That's not what I asked.

I didn't ask if it was effective, IS IT CONSTITUIONAL YES OR NO. And were you for it in 2005 as "jeff j"?

Or am I talking to one of the other 5 of you today?

#125 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:27 PM | Reply

" Biden had covid during a debate and did badly.

There's jeff's "evidence" that Obama was in charge for 4 years. LMAO.

#123 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:24 PM | FLAG: "

As if that was the sole evidence of Biden's mental decline. Ar3 you still in the he is sharp as a tack' camp?

Clearly his party wasn't as they forced him out and inserted a terrible replacement.

#126 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:27 PM | Reply

Another question you won't answer truthfully:

Is putting people in Guantanamo Bay Cuba without due process a violation of Habeas Corpus. YES OR NO?

#127 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:28 PM | Reply

Come on you constitutional scholar. Say something of substance, here's your chance.

#128 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:29 PM | Reply

@#120 ... My apologies ... in his June debate against Trump he absolutely knocked it put of the park. ...

I will readily admit that fmr Pres Biden was off his game during that debate.

OK, that aside...

Now do the daily comments and speeches that Pres trump does.

Rational?

Or meandering lie fmr Pres Biden in that debate?

I mean really, Pres trump seems to be unable to even answer a simple question posed to him by a reporter. Instead he seems to ramble off on some unrelated topic.


#129 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-19 10:29 PM | Reply

Ar3 you still in the he is sharp as a tack' camp?

No, but he's sharper than you right now.

#130 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:29 PM | Reply

I don't believe in water boarding. I don't believe that torture is an effective method for obtaining reliable information from thick-skinned enemies. Interrogation methods have gotten so sophisticated that inflicting torturous pain has become obsolete as a means of obtains valuable information.

Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:25 PM | Reply

You sure did at the time Jeff. You said torture works and that's why we're doing it. You railed against those of us that opposed its use as being dangerous to America. You wholeheartedly supported it. I remember.

#131 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is it Constitutional? Good question. Fair question. Honestly, I am not 100% certain on the answer. My gut tells me that it's not. From what I understand, it's a horrible experience.

#132 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:30 PM | Reply

" Is putting people in Guantanamo Bay Cuba without due process a violation of Habeas Corpus. YES OR NO?

#127 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:28 PM | FLAG: "

If they are POW's - yes. If not - no.

#133 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:31 PM | Reply

I am not 100% certain on the answer

I am. We charged people for war crimes for doing it against us. It's a violation of the Geneva Convention we signed, and the constitution tells us we have to follow the treaties we sign.
Under the Constitution, treaties are the "supreme law of the land." Look it up.

#134 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:33 PM | Reply

If they are POW's - yes. If not - no.

#133 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wrong. The entire reason for putting them in Cuba is to try and get around US law to hold them indefinitely, which is absolutely a violation of the constitution you pretend to know and love.

#135 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:35 PM | Reply


Is putting people in Guantanamo Bay Cuba without due process a violation of Habeas Corpus. YES OR NO?
#127 | POSTED BY ALEXA

No, Habeas corpus doesn't have anything to do with "due process". Do you even understand what habeas corpus means?

#136 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 10:36 PM | Reply

It's a violation of the Geneva Convention we signed, and the constitution tells us we have to follow the treaties we sign.

This was only against standing armies. This is why it wasn't a violation.

Countries most certainly can charge stateless terrorist with crimes.

#137 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 10:38 PM | Reply

It was just the main topic of discussion here for ten years, oneironut.

Like you, I get all my news from x.com, so I don't know anything.

#138 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:38 PM | Reply

Countries most certainly can charge stateless terrorist with crimes.

#137 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 10:38 PM | Reply | Flag

The people sitting in GITMO haven't been charged, that's the entire point.

My god you're clueless.

#139 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:39 PM | Reply

Habeas corpus, meaning "you shall have the body," is a legal action used to ensure a person's detention is lawful, and it's often seen as a crucial safeguard for due process, ensuring no one is unjustly imprisoned.
Here's a more detailed explanation:
What is Habeas Corpus?
A writ of habeas corpus is a court order directing an individual (or the custodian of an individual) to bring the person before the court to determine the legality of their detention.
The literal meaning is "you shall have the body," meaning the judge or court must have any person being detained brought forward to assess the legality of their detention.
How it relates to Due Process:
Due process, as outlined in the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, guarantees fair legal procedures and protections against government actions that deprive individuals of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
Habeas corpus serves as a crucial check on government power, ensuring that individuals are not unjustly detained and that their right to due process is respected.
Habeas corpus is particularly important when prior due process is lacking, as it can provide a means of review even when other legal avenues are

#140 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:40 PM | Reply

Alexandrite clearly loves terrorists and thinks they should receive far better treatment than our own people.

#141 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Bellringer showing off his strawman because he got spanked.

Which one of the 5 of you am I talking to now? Confederacy of Dunces...

#142 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:41 PM | Reply

" The people sitting in GITMO haven't been charged, that's the entire point.

My god you're clueless.

#139 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:39 PM | FLAG: "

Maybe we should build a few shacks acros the street from your house and release them there. Surely you'd welcome them with open arms!

#143 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:42 PM | Reply

You sure did at the time Jeff. You said torture works and that's why we're doing it. You railed against those of us that opposed its use as being dangerous to America. You wholeheartedly supported it. I remember.

#131 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks, sometimes I doubt my memory.

#144 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:43 PM | Reply

I'm simply assigning false positions to you the same way you've been doing to me, Alexandrite.

If you want me to trust you as an adult then act like one first.

#145 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:43 PM | Reply

Maybe we should build a few shacks acros the street from your house and release them there.

Maybe we should charge them with a crime, like our system says we're supposed to.

You know, since we care about the constitution so much.

#146 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:44 PM | Reply

Trust = treat

#147 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:44 PM | Reply

Thanks, sometimes I doubt my memory.

Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:43 PM | Reply

You're welcome. I don't forget much.

#148 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

141 - and there's a strawman.

#149 | Posted by YAV at 2025-03-19 10:44 PM | Reply

I'll take luara's recollection over your lies, lil jeffy.

Any damn day.

#150 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:44 PM | Reply

" Maybe we should charge them with a crime"

In the meantime, until that happens, should we house them across the street from you?

#151 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:45 PM | Reply

Jeff drops the constitution at the first sign of trouble. Because he loves it so much.

#152 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:45 PM | Reply

In the meantime, until that happens, should we house them across the street from you?

#151 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:45 PM | Reply | Flag

How about an American prison? Crazy, right?

#153 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:46 PM | Reply

@#145 ... If you want me to trust you as an adult then act like one first. ...

Project much?


#154 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-19 10:47 PM | Reply

Maybe we should build a few shacks acros the street from your house and release them there. Surely you'd welcome them with open arms!

Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:42 PM | Reply

How about charge them with a crime and try them in a court of law and if found guilty lock them up. You know like the Constitution directs us to do. Oh I know why we can't do that now. Because we violated their rights and violated the international treaty against torture. We're covering our hiney by not doing so.

#155 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2025-03-19 10:51 PM | Reply

Who was running the Executive branch during the last 4 years?
#107 | POSTED BY BULLBRINGER

Oh! I know this one!! George Soros!!!

#156 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-19 10:53 PM | Reply

" How about an American prison? Crazy, right?

#153 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:46 PM | FLAG: "

Oh, so still imprison them but in this country, but not in Cuba?

#157 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:53 PM | Reply

" Jeff drops the constitution at the first sign of trouble. Because he loves it so much.

#152 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:45 PM | FLAG: "

I guarantee I love it more than you.

#158 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:54 PM | Reply

Oh, so still imprison them but in this country, but not in Cuba?

#157 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Correct, stupid. Then they get a lawyer and charged with something.

As opposed to sitting in a foreign country for decades.

#159 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:54 PM | Reply

"How about charge them with a crime"

This will never get addressed.

They just know, in their hearts, security of the nation means the President has to be able to black bag people at will.

They know it must be that way.

For our safety.

They trust the government to black bag the right people. They really do.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 10:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I guarantee I love it more than you.

#158 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag

How do you belong to a book club when you've obviously never read the book and there's no movie?

Are you a Christian that never read the bible either?

#161 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:55 PM | Reply

"Who was running the Executive branch during the last 4 years?"

At this point, what difference does it make?

What were the policy shifts or other changes from the White House that led you to conclude, unlike any news outlet, that Biden was not in charge, and when did the change happen?

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 10:56 PM | Reply

They trust the government to black bag the right people. They really do.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's sad really.

But Obama was a fascist for trying to give a health care.

#163 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 10:56 PM | Reply

I just want to point out that I posted incontrovertible proof that Jeff was wrong and then I predicted he would not admit he was wrong and would continue to lie.

I was right, again.

#164 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 10:59 PM | Reply

And Biden was a tAkIng ouR frEEdOms by asking us to wear a mask and get a shot.

But it's totally cool that George W Bush put people in a cuban gulag to rot.
And it's toally fine that Trump violated a court order to deport a bunch of people he claims were in a gang. (with no proof)

I reiterate: "Jeff is more interested in his team "winning" than the actual constitution, which he uses as a cudgel when a democrat is in office."

#165 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 11:00 PM | Reply

BullBringer is so concerned Biden wasn't running the country.

But hasn't said a peep about Musk running the government while Trump distracts with decrees to attack Panama and Greenland.

#166 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-19 11:02 PM | Reply

" How do you belong to a book club when you've obviously never read the book and there's no movie?

Are you a Christian that never read the bible either?

#161 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE AT 2025-03-19 10:55 PM | FLAG: "

I have 3 copies of the Constitution in my house and one resides on my night stand. I periodically flip through it and have read it in its entirety on numerous occasions.

#167 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:02 PM | Reply

It simple, a habeas review does not depend on underlying due process rights.

The idea of habeas corpus is for individuals to challenge unlawful detention.


How about charge them with a crime and try them in a court of law and if found guilty lock them up. You know like the Constitution directs us to do.

This isn't exactly correct. Article I, Section 9 , Clause 2 Habeas Corpus
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The constitution allows Congress to make laws/acts which allow the executive branch to ignore due process.

This is the case with the Alien Enemies Act. Its a perfectly logical act arising from actual situation that occurred.

#168 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 11:03 PM | Reply

Jeff loves the constitution but can't explain why the SC should not have taken the student loan forgiveness case.

Cause he doesn't UNDERSTAND the constitution

#169 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:04 PM | Reply

" And Biden was a tAkIng ouR frEEdOms by asking us to wear a mask and get a shot."

Asked? We were not "asked". Further, I complied with the mask mandates and got multiple COVID shots. So eff right off with your incessant straw.

#170 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:04 PM | Reply

They trust the government to black bag the right people. They really do.

At some point you really do have to trust the government. Or you could over throw it, your choice.

#171 | Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 11:04 PM | Reply

I have 3 copies of the Constitution in my house and one resides on my night stand. I periodically flip through it and have read it in its entirety on numerous occasions.

#167 | Posted by BellRinger a

Your lips move when you read, don't they?

#172 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:04 PM | Reply

" Your lips move when you read, don't they?

#172 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:04 PM | FLAG: "

No, but my eyes do.

#173 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:06 PM | Reply

This is the case with the Alien Enemies Act. Its a perfectly logical act arising from actual situation that occurred.

Posted by oneironaut at 2025-03-19 11:03 PM | Reply

Which has nothing to do with 9/11 which we were discussing.

You can copy paste but you can't understand what you're reading.

BTW a judge denied Trumps use of The Alien Enemies act you just learned about yesterday on twitter. And he violated the court order.

#174 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 11:07 PM | Reply

" And Biden was a tAkIng ouR frEEdOms by asking us to wear a mask and get a shot."

Asked? We were not "asked". Further, I complied with the mask mandates and got multiple COVID shots. So eff right off with your incessant straw.

#170 | Posted by BellRinger

Does the government have the authority to mandate children who attend public schools receive measles vaccines?

#175 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:09 PM | Reply

Does the government have the authority to mandate behavior in a national emergency?

#176 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:09 PM | Reply

" And it's toally fine that Trump violated a court order to deport a bunch of people he claims were in a gang. (with no proof)"

The flight was already in the air. And I already said that no further flights should be carried out until this gets resolved in the judicial system. I've pointed this opinion out to you multiple times now and you continue to say otherwise.

#177 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:11 PM | Reply

Did Biden defy a court order by enacting the student loan forgiveness program under a different statute?

#178 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:11 PM | Reply

The flight was already in the air.

Actually not all of them were.

You're pretending that matters. Trump told the court to go ---- itself and you're deflecting for him, because he's a republican.

#179 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2025-03-19 11:12 PM | Reply

" Does the government have the authority to mandate children who attend public schools receive measles vaccines?

#175 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:09 PM | FLAG: "

If it's a bill passed by Congress, signed by POTUS and doesn't get overturned via judicial review? Yes, of course.

#180 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:13 PM | Reply

" And it's toally fine that Trump violated a court order to deport a bunch of people he claims were in a gang. (with no proof)"

The flight was already in the air. And I already said that no further flights should be carried out until this gets resolved in the judicial system. I've pointed this opinion out to you multiple times now and you continue to say otherwise.

#177 | Posted by BellRinger at

It is my understanding that one of the flights was still on the ground when the order was given

#181 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:13 PM | Reply

If it's a bill passed by Congress, signed by POTUS and doesn't get overturned via judicial review? Yes, of course.

#180 | Posted by BellRinger

Ok, since that is what Biden did with mask mandates and vaccines you can no go ---- yourself.

#182 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:15 PM | Reply

" Did Biden defy a court order by enacting the student loan forgiveness program under a different statute?
#178 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:11 PM | FLAG: "

Yes, because from where I sit he was flinging feces at the wall and hoping something would stick.

I felt the exact same when during his first term Trump diverted appropriated funding to border wall construction.

#183 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:16 PM | Reply

Were any US citizens sent out on those flights?

Were any legal residents of the US on those flights?

Were any people with protected status on those flights?

#184 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:16 PM | Reply

" Did Biden defy a court order by enacting the student loan forgiveness program under a different statute?
#178 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:11 PM | FLAG: "

Yes, because from where I sit he was flinging feces at the wall and hoping something would stick.

I felt the exact same when during his first term Trump diverted appropriated funding to border wall construction.

#183 | Posted by BellRinger at

That is because you are an idiot who doesn't understand ----.

#185 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:17 PM | Reply

Which court order did Biden fail to comply with?

There isn't one.

End of story.

#186 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 11:18 PM | Reply

Who had standing to challenge the first student loan forgiveness program?

#187 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:18 PM | Reply

Do you know what standing is in a court case?

#188 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:19 PM | Reply

" Ok, since that is what Biden did with mask mandates and vaccines you can no go ---- yourself.

#182 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:15 PM | FLAG: "

Again, I compiled with the mask mandates and got the shots. So ---- off with your --------.

Also, I am not aware of any law that gave POTUS the power to issue those mandates unilaterally. Maybe said law exists ... .

#189 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:20 PM | Reply

What harm was remedied by the SC's decision in the student loan forgiveness case?

#190 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:20 PM | Reply

" That is because you are an idiot who doesn't understand ----.

#185 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:17 PM | FLAG: "

So, you were good with Trump diverting fiends to build a wall? Interesting.

#191 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:21 PM | Reply

I have never commented on that issue as I have not studied it.

#192 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:22 PM | Reply

What harm was remedied by the SC's decision in the student loan forgiveness case?

#193 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:22 PM | Reply

" What harm was remedied by the SC's decision in the student loan forgiveness case?

#190 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:20 PM | FLAG: "

Taxpayers funding the loans of people's votes Biden was attempting to buy.

#194 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:22 PM | Reply

What does one call a SC decision that is untethered from a harm?

#195 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:22 PM | Reply

...the result will be a fire so massive that the most recent California wildfires will look like someone flicking a butane lighter by comparison.
#111 | Posted by BellRinger

JFC you really are an insufferable -------.

Get ------.

Then swallow.

#196 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:23 PM | Reply

Taxpayers funding the loans of people's votes Biden was attempting to buy.

#194 | Posted by BellRinger

That isn't a harm dumbass.

But, I THINK what you are saying is that Biden was misappropriating funds.

They harm then would have been a harm to Congress' power.

How come Congress didn't take action to stop Biden?

How can harm be ascribed to Mohela when Mohela stood to MAKE money off of Biden's initial SL forgiveness program?

#197 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:24 PM | Reply

" I have never commented on that issue as I have not studied it.

#192 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2025-03-19 11:22 PM | FLAG: "

Trump declared the border a national emergency and used that as an excuse to divert funds Congress had appropriated for military expenditures to his pet wall project. It was a gross and corrupt abuse of power.

#198 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:25 PM | Reply

" That isn't a harm dumbass"

Yes, it is. Unless you don't think increasing the deficit is a harm to taxpayers and future taxpayers.

#199 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:26 PM | Reply

" JFC you really are an insufferable -------.

Get ------.

Then swallow.

#196 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-19 11:23 PM | FLAG: "

It was an analogy. Lighten up, moron.

#200 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:27 PM | Reply

What harm did the party to the student loan forgiveness program suffer that thus made them a party to a lawsuit reviewed by the SC?

To educate you, MOHELA (the Missouri loan program administrator) was the party that the state AGs claimed suffered harm.

Thus giving MOHELA standing that courts could adjudicate

But, MOHELA did not agree to be a party to that lawsuit

Mohel stood to make money off the forgiveness program

SOO, there was no harm there.

Thus the SC did not have the authority to rule on that case.

the entity that DID have power to stop Biden was Congress, who could have a. filed suit, or b. passed legislation to stop him.

They chose not to.

So, the SC stepped in to restrict Biden-that is called legislating NOT adjudicating.

#201 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yes, it is. Unless you don't think increasing the deficit is a harm to taxpayers and future taxpayers.

#199 | Posted by BellRinger

You aren't bright enough to debate this.

Mohela was the party in the lawsuit, not the taxpayers, not Congress

DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS?

MOHELA is not the tax payers suffering a harm that the deficit would increase

MOHELA is a loan processing organization that would have made money off Biden's program.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS NOT WHAT THE LAWSUIT WAS ABOUT?

BECAUSE THE SC DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE THAT DECISION-THAT IS A POWER OF CONGRESS

#202 | Posted by truthhurts at 2025-03-19 11:32 PM | Reply

"I don't believe that torture is an effective method for obtaining reliable information from thick-skinned enemies. Interrogation methods have gotten so sophisticated that inflicting torturous pain has become obsolete as a means of obtains valuable information."

But how about as a way to secure the border.

Word gets out that we are torturing illegals, that would be a strong deterrent border policy.

You want a strong deterrent at the border to dissuade illegal entry.

So naturally you would support torture as an effective method for securing the border.

#203 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-19 11:44 PM | Reply

Alexandrite clearly loves terrorists and thinks they should receive far better treatment than our own people.
#141 | Posted by BellRinger

You were the one just bitching about straw.

JFC you're such a hypocrite.

Swallow it.

#204 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:45 PM | Reply

It was an analogy. Lighten up, moron.
#200 | Posted by BellRinger

I've lived through the fires, you ------- -------.

Your lack of empathy and using California's Republicans' plight as an analogy is absolutely disgusting. WTF happened to you?

#205 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:46 PM | Reply

I have 3 copies of the Constitution in my house and one resides on my night stand. I periodically flip through it and have read it in its entirety on numerous occasions.
#167 | Posted by BellRinger

Meaningless. Your reading an outline for the formation of a government is meaningless. Governance is the experience of the three branches of government as interpreted by the Supreme Court for two hundred plus years. If you are only reading text then your education is meaningless. Here's a good place to begin a journey to learning about constitutional governance. www.law.cornell.edu

Btw, the Alien Enemies Act of 1789 has only been invoked like 3 times, always in the context of war with another government. Never to deport a drug gang. Don't be so assured about the legality of the Buffoon's invocation.

#206 | Posted by et_al at 2025-03-19 11:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

" You were the one just bitching about straw.

JFC you're such a hypocrite.

Swallow it.

#204 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-19 11:45 PM | REPLY | FLAG:"

Quit being an ankle biting little bitch. I erected that straw man to demonstrate to Alexandrite how ridiculous he was being. And I acknowledged what I was doing.

Now, keep being offended by cherry picked crap and smile and nod when LGH tells people to kill themselves. Alexandrite has decided to be petty on this thread but he's never put up with the vile crap LGH posts.

#207 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:50 PM | Reply

#201 | Posted by truthhurts

The statement in the query contains some inaccuracies and oversimplifications regarding the Supreme Court's decision on President Biden's student loan forgiveness program. Here's a breakdown of the relevant points:

1. **MOHELA's Role and Standing**:
- MOHELA (Missouri Higher Education Loan Authority) was central to Missouri's argument for standing in *Biden v. Nebraska*. The Supreme Court determined that MOHELA, as a quasi-governmental entity created by Missouri, would suffer financial harm from the forgiveness program, specifically losing $44 million annually. This harm satisfied the constitutional requirement for standing under Article III[1][5][8].
- While MOHELA itself did not voluntarily join the lawsuit, Missouri argued on its behalf, as MOHELA is considered an instrumentality of the state and subject to state supervision[1][2].

2. **Claim That MOHELA Stood to Benefit**:
- The assertion that MOHELA stood to make money off the forgiveness program contradicts the Court's findings. The Court explicitly noted that MOHELA would face financial losses due to reduced loan servicing revenue if the program proceeded[1][8].

3. **Supreme Court's Authority**:
- The Supreme Court ruled on the case because Missouri established standing through MOHELA's projected harm. Once standing was confirmed, the Court assessed whether the Department of Education had legal authority under the HEROES Act to implement sweeping loan forgiveness. The Court concluded that this exceeded the scope of "waive or modify" provisions in the Act, thus invalidating the program[1][3][5].

4. **Congressional Role**:
- Congress indeed has legislative authority over student loan policy, and critics of the decision argue that Congress could have acted to override or support Biden's plan. However, Congress did not file suit or pass legislation directly addressing this specific forgiveness program[5][6].
- The Supreme Court's decision was based on interpreting statutory authority under existing law, not legislating new policy. Critics like Justice Elena Kagan dissented, arguing that the decision effectively substituted judicial judgment for Congressional and executive policymaking[3][5].

In summary, while Missouri used MOHELA's financial harm to establish standing, MOHELA did not voluntarily join the case, and its projected losses were key to the Court's ruling. The Supreme Court acted within its adjudicative role by interpreting statutory limits under the HEROES Act rather than legislating policy changes. Congress retains ultimate authority over such programs but chose not to intervene directly in this instance[1][3][5].

Citations:
[1]
www.ncsl.org
[2] protectborrowers.org
[3] time.com
[4] ago.mo.gov
[5] www.scotusblog.com
[6] www.cwla.org

#208 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:52 PM | Reply

" Btw, the Alien Enemies Act of 1789 has only been invoked like 3 times, always in the context of war with another government. Never to deport a drug gang. Don't be so assured about the legality of the Buffoon's invocation.

#206 | POSTED BY ET_AL AT 2025-03-19 11:47 PM | FLAG: "

I agree and said as much on the thread where this was specifically addressed.

" www.law.cornell.edu"

Very good resource. I go there periodically.

#209 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-19 11:53 PM | Reply

@#207 ... Quit being an ankle biting little bitch. I erected that straw man ...

So, your current alias admits it is a troll here, posting false comments to get replies?



#210 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-19 11:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Quit being an ankle biting little bitch. I erected that straw man to demonstrate to Alexandrite how ridiculous he was being. And I acknowledged what I was doing.
Now, keep being offended by cherry picked crap and smile and nod when LGH tells people to kill themselves. Alexandrite has decided to be petty on this thread but he's never put up with the vile crap LGH posts.
#207 | Posted by BellRinger

You're such a clown, JEFF. You think you're witty, but you're just an -------.

Swallow it, then address the BS I've called you out on (along with YAV). You're spitting nonsense just to own the "proverbial" libs. Own it, you ----.

#211 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:57 PM | Reply

So, your current alias admits it is a troll here

He pretty much wears it like a sandwich board.

#212 | Posted by REDIAL at 2025-03-19 11:59 PM | Reply

keep being offended by cherry picked crap and smile and nod when LGH tells people to kill themselves. Alexandrite has decided to be petty on this thread but he's never put up with the vile crap LGH posts.
#207 | Posted by BellRinger

JFC the irony in this post is absolutely rife.

Get bent, ----.

#213 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-19 11:59 PM | Reply

Seriously, JEFF.

Address the context provided in #96 or just STFU already. It's proof that you're not here discussing these issues sincerely.

#214 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:01 AM | Reply

Oh, and please comment on #94 while you're at it JEFF, you ------- hypocrite.

#215 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:03 AM | Reply

Guaranteed, JEFF does not post on this thread moving forward.

------- ------- coward.

#216 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:04 AM | Reply

Joe Biden wasnt mentally capable of running anything. And he certainly wasn't setting policy and calling the shots.

I do agree that certain members of his cabinet were probably runn8ng things but who was actually on charge? It clearly wasn't Biden.

#114 | Posted by BellRinger

You're such a gullible fool.

Highly susceptible to being told what to think while believing it's your own balanced thought.

Meanwhile being entirely impervious to correction, integrating new information or seeing you were fooled/misled.

In the end, you voted to burn down your own house and continue to blame the guy who left it intact and functional because the arsonist tells you to.

#217 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Who was running the Executive branch during the last 4 years?

#107 | Posted by BellRinger

Are you looking for an answer rooted in reality or rooted in the fantasy that has led you to think Trump is a good person to occupy the Oval Office?

#218 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:12 AM | Reply

" Swallow it, then address the BS I've called you out on (along with YAV). You're spitting nonsense just to own the "proverbial" libs. Own it, you ----.

#211 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-19 11:57 PM | FLAG: "

---- off. You are such a ---- sucker. Cherry picking what you want to try and prove a false point and ignoring what is inconvenient.

#219 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:13 AM | Reply

I have 3 copies of the Constitution in my house and one resides on my night stand. I periodically flip through it and have read it in its entirety on numerous occasions.

#167 | Posted by BellRinger

Sounds like me reading the labels on shampoo bottles while taking a s(*&.

I've read them tons of times, still haven't bothered to understand what sodium dilaurel suflate hydrogenated dodecyle monoxide is.

Same as you not bothering to understand it enough to come to the conclusion that you need to forcefully come out against the current regime.

#220 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#217. Nice job typing a lot of words and saying absolutely nothing in the process.

#218 way to deflect and move the goalposts. Big time. Better get your shoulders massaged and get checked for a hernia.

#221 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:16 AM | Reply

It's funny reading anyone trying to have a discussion with someone who believes Obama was the president from 2021-2025.

BullBringer isn't a serious poster. He's just a stupid troll.

When he's not trolling he's spreading racism and transphobia.

#222 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-20 12:22 AM | Reply

Your reading an outline for the formation of a government is meaningless. Governance is the experience of the three branches of government as interpreted by the Supreme Court for two hundred plus years. If you are only reading text then your education is meaningless. Here's a good place to begin a journey to learning about constitutional governance.

Probably the most succinct statement of why arguments like "duhhhhh WhErE dOeS iT sAyZ thAt In DuHhh ConStUhTuShUNzZ???" or "says it right there..ShAlL NoT Be InfRignEdSzZ!!!" is so absurd.

I usually got blank stares when I stated that if you're not accounting for case law you're not really making a constitutional argument. Never thought of it as bare bones vs meat kind of thing.

#223 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:24 AM | Reply

Nice job typing a lot of words and saying absolutely nothing in the process.

Exactly what a gullible fool sure of their own "abilities" would say.

#218 way to deflect and move the goalposts. Big time. Better get your shoulders massaged and get checked for a hernia.

#221 | Posted by BellRinger

via GIPHY

#224 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What hilarious is that your deflection whine proves the fantasy statement correct.

You have the understanding of a child.

#225 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:27 AM | Reply

#222 Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. I said Biden's presidency felt like Obama 2.0 on steroids. I also said (and I 100% stand by this) that due to his cognitive issues Biden was not in charge during his term. I think it's possible and likely, that on broad policy issues Obama at the very least had a say. Obviously he wasn't running the show as he was too far removed geographically as well as not being an actual member of Biden's team to be making day-to-day decisions. As to who was actually in charge? Right now, only those in his inner-circle know. A few years from now, one of them seeking to cash-in off grift will probably write a tell-all.

#226 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:27 AM | Reply

"You have the understanding of a child.

#225 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2025-03-20 12:27 AM"

You ARE a child, intellectually and emotionally. Your understanding of global affairs and economics is little more than left-wing cliches and hyperbole.

#227 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:30 AM | Reply

Cherry picking what you want to try and prove a false point and ignoring what is inconvenient.
#219 | Posted by BellRinger

Get specific, because this BS doesn't hold water.

Address the context provided in #96. Or STFU you hypocritical ----.

Swallow it.

#228 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:35 AM | Reply

#221 | Posted by BellRinger

JFC you're such a -------. Have some self-awareness when it comes to moving goalposts. Swallow all that straw that you've thrown around here.

#229 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:36 AM | Reply

#226 | Posted by BellRinger

Cool. Now address #96 or STFU already. What the ---- happened to you?

#230 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:38 AM | Reply

@#226 ... Reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. ...

Projecting? Again??

#231 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-20 12:38 AM | Reply

228 I already did. After getting smacked down by SCOTUS Team Biden created a new justification to continue with their vote-buying scheme citing a different law to do what SCOTUS said they couldn't do.

#232 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:39 AM | Reply

#226 | Posted by BellRinger

Nice job typing a lot of words and saying absolutely nothing in the process.

JFC you really are a ------- idiot.

#233 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:39 AM | Reply

After getting smacked down by SCOTUS Team Biden created a new justification to continue with their vote-buying scheme citing a different law to do what SCOTUS said they couldn't do.b
#232 | Posted by BellRinger

Once again: The follow-up comment contains some accurate elements but also oversimplifies and misrepresents key details about the Biden administration's actions following the Supreme Court's rejection of the original student loan forgiveness plan. Here's a breakdown:

1. **"After getting smacked down by SCOTUS..."**
- The Supreme Court did indeed strike down President Biden's initial student loan forgiveness plan in *Biden v. Nebraska* (June 2023), ruling that the administration overstepped its authority under the HEROES Act of 2003[6].

2. **"Team Biden created a new justification citing a different law..."**
- This is accurate. After the Supreme Court's decision, the Biden administration shifted its legal basis for student loan forgiveness to the Higher Education Act (HEA) of 1965, which grants the Education Secretary authority to "waive or release" loans under certain conditions[2][5][7]. This was part of a narrower, revised plan to provide relief to specific groups of borrowers.

3. **"Vote-buying scheme..."**
- This is a subjective characterization rather than an objective fact. Critics of student loan forgiveness often frame it as politically motivated, but proponents argue it addresses systemic issues in the student loan system.

4. **"Citing a different law to do what SCOTUS said they couldn't do..."**
- The revised plan is not identical to the original and is narrower in scope. The administration tailored it to target specific groups, such as borrowers facing financial hardship or those who have been repaying loans for decades[2][4][7]. By using the HEA instead of the HEROES Act, the administration sought to address the Supreme Court's concerns about executive overreach.

5. **Legal and Political Context**:
- The new plan underwent a formal rulemaking process, which included public input, to bolster its legal defensibility[2][5]. The administration believes this approach has a stronger legal foundation, though it has still faced legal challenges[9].

In summary, while it is true that the Biden administration pursued a new legal strategy after the Supreme Court's ruling, characterizing it as merely "doing what SCOTUS said they couldn't do" oversimplifies the changes made to align with legal constraints. The claim of "vote-buying" reflects political opinion rather than an objective assessment of policy intent.

Citations:
[1]
www.nasfaa.org
[2] www.cnbc.com
[3] www.pbs.org
[4] money.com
[5] www.nbcconnecticut.com
[6] www.scotusblog.com
[7] apnews.com
[8] budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu
[9] www.scotusblog.com

#234 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:41 AM | Reply

Waiting, JEFF.

#235 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:43 AM | Reply

You ARE a child, intellectually and emotionally. Your understanding of global affairs and economics is little more than left-wing cliches and hyperbole.

#227 | Posted by BellRinger

LOL

Since the day I joined this blog, you've been on the wrong side of all of it. Every time.

#236 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:44 AM | Reply

@#229 ... Have some self-awareness when it comes to moving goalposts. ...

Bingo!

You have also seemed to observe a similar aspect of that troll alias that i have seen in my attempted discussions with it.

The points it presents are vaporous, constantly changing.

The sad part of it is that I have actually had a real conversation with that trolling alias, an actual ~give and take~ of views.

And that conversation was thoughtful.

So I know that troll alias can do better.

Which leads me to ask, why does it just seem to troll?


#237 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-20 12:44 AM | Reply

I said Biden's presidency felt like Obama 2.0 on steroids. I also said (and I 100% stand by this) that due to his cognitive issues Biden was not in charge during his term. I think it's possible and likely, that on broad policy issues Obama at the very least had a say. Obviously he wasn't running the show as he was too far removed geographically as well as not being an actual member of Biden's team to be making day-to-day decisions. As to who was actually in charge? Right now, only those in his inner-circle know. A few years from now, one of them seeking to cash-in off grift will probably write a tell-all.

#226 | Posted by BellRinger

I mean...I'm not sayin'...I'm just sayin'...

That you think this mealy mouthed bulls(*& fools anyone is hilarious and only shows how absolutely lacking you are in awareness of the world around you.

#238 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:46 AM | Reply

I already did. After getting smacked down by SCOTUS Team Biden created a new justification to continue with their vote-buying scheme citing a different law to do what SCOTUS said they couldn't do.

#232 | Posted by BellRinger

This right here proves what a ---- idiot you are and how little knowledge your supposed countless readings of the Constitution has left you with.

You've been corrected on this countless times. STFU about it.

#239 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The sad part of it is that I have actually had a real conversation with that trolling alias, an actual ~give and take~ of views.
And that conversation was thoughtful.
So I know that troll alias can do better.
Which leads me to ask, why does it just seem to troll?
#237 | Posted by LampLighter

I once had a legitimate conversation with JEFF. The outcome of which he referred to me as "a good egg." I appreciated the comment, but not nearly as much as I appreciated the sincere conversation. That element of JEFF is gone, clearly. He can't dispute the facts nor argument provided in basic, easily accessible research. All he's, apparently, interested in is owning "proverbial" libs with conjecture and cognitive dissonance.

#240 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:49 AM | Reply

Post 234 or any of the other repetitions of it will get no response from Jeffy.

His surface level understanding of civics and governance leaves zero chance of his wrapping his head around it.

Which is why he'll never ask the simple question of why it never got "smacked down" by SCOTUS again.

#241 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:51 AM | Reply

"TED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-20 12:41 AM | FLAG:

Waiting

#235 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-20 12:43 AM | FLAG: "

I am very familiar with the twisted legal justification the administration came up with to circumvent the SCOTUS ruling.

#242 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:56 AM | Reply

"Which is why he'll never ask the simple question of why it never got "smacked down" by SCOTUS again.

#241 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2025-03-20 12:51 AM | FLAG: "

Hmmm....maybe because it didn't get brought back in front of SCOTUS again? It was implemented as campaign season was getting underway.

#243 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:58 AM | Reply

You've been corrected on this countless times. STFU about it.
#239 | Posted by jpw

Swallow it, JEFF.

#244 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:58 AM | Reply

All he's, apparently, interested in is owning "proverbial" libs with conjecture and cognitive dissonance.

I don't think he's the usual MAGA idiot.

He think he's comfortably stuck in the old team mentality, assuming the new game has the same rules and the same stakes.

He's basically Chuck Schumer, but not a Senator.

#245 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 12:58 AM | Reply

I am very familiar with the twisted legal justification the administration came up with to circumvent the SCOTUS ruling.
#242 | Posted by BellRinger

You're familiar with what exactly? Provide some detailed context or STFU already.

#246 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:58 AM | Reply

He's basically Chuck Schumer, but not a Senator.
#245 | Posted by jpw

Oh snap. Agreed.

Swallow it, JEFF.

#247 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 12:59 AM | Reply

"Since the day I joined this blog, you've been on the wrong side of all of it. Every time.

#236 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2025-03-20 12:44 AM | REPLY | FLAG:"

Which is every bit as accurate of a statement as you being accused of working middle stall ---------- at truck stops.

#248 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 12:59 AM | Reply

.maybe because it didn't get brought back in front of SCOTUS again? It was implemented as campaign season was getting underway.
#243 | Posted by BellRinger

So now you're admitting Biden didn't go against SCOTUS ruling. Solid.

Swallow it.

#249 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:00 AM | Reply

"This right here proves what a ---- idiot you are and how little knowledge your supposed countless readings of the Constitution has left you with.

You've been corrected on this countless times. STFU about it.

#239 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2025-03-20 12:48 AM | FLAG: "

"I'm right and you're wrong. Nyah!" isn't a correction of anything, moron.

#250 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:01 AM | Reply

"So now you're admitting Biden didn't go against SCOTUS ruling. Solid.

I did no such thing, idiot.

#251 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:02 AM | Reply

working middle stall ---------- at truck stops.
#248 | Posted by BellRinger

I've noticed, anecdotally, that it's cultists like JEFF who make homosexual/homophobic references in binal commentary. I wonder why.

#252 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:03 AM | Reply

I did no such thing, idiot.
#251 | Posted by BellRinger

Yes, you did, cultist. Swallow it.

#253 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:04 AM | Reply

It's hilarious to me to watch hard-core lefties turn against Schumer for preventing his party from being responsible for a government shut-down.

You all keep being you. It's priceless.

#254 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:05 AM | Reply

I am very familiar with the twisted legal justification the administration came up with to circumvent the SCOTUS ruling.
#242 | Posted by BellRinger
You're familiar with what exactly? Provide some detailed context or STFU already.
#246 | Posted by rstybeach11

Waiting, JEFF.

#255 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:05 AM | Reply

"I've noticed, anecdotally, that it's cultists like JEFF who make homosexual/homophobic references in binal commentary. I wonder why.

#252 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2025-03-20 01:03 AM | FLAG: "

I was mocking the banality of accusing JPW of being a --------- hound, you complete and absolute clown-shht.

#256 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:06 AM | Reply

It's priceless.
#254 | Posted by BellRinger

Be specific with whom you're charging that accusation, ----. You ------- coward.

#257 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:06 AM | Reply

#256 | Posted by BellRinger

Nope. This is not a one-off occasion. You think we haven't paid attention to your homosexual/homophobic trend of commentary?

JFC you dumb

#258 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:08 AM | Reply

" JEFF.

#255 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11"

Waiting for what?

His team cited a different law as justification to do what SCOTUS forbade them from doing under the HEROES Act.

#259 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:08 AM | Reply

"I'm right and you're wrong. Nyah!" isn't a correction of anything, moron.
#250 | Posted by BellRinger

Not once have you backed your argument with legitimate context let alone facts. EVERY single time I provide exactly that. Why are you so lazy?

#260 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:10 AM | Reply

"You think we haven't paid attention to your homosexual/homophobic trend of commentary?"

Now you are just lying. Or, being charitable (which you don't deserve), you have me mixed up with someone else.

I don't bash homosexuality, be it in person or on this site or any other social media cite.

So stop with the libelous accusation.

#261 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:10 AM | Reply

His team cited a different law as justification to do what SCOTUS forbade them from doing under the HEROES Act.
#259 | Posted by BellRinger

The statement, "His team cited a different law as justification to do what SCOTUS forbade them from doing under the HEROES Act," is partially accurate but oversimplifies the situation. Here's a detailed analysis:

1. **"Cited a different law as justification"**:
- This is accurate. After the Supreme Court struck down President Biden's initial student loan forgiveness plan, which relied on the HEROES Act of 2003, the administration shifted its legal foundation to the Higher Education Act (HEA) of 1965. The HEA grants the Secretary of Education authority to "compromise, waive, or release" federal student loans under certain conditions[1][3][7].

2. **"To do what SCOTUS forbade them from doing under the HEROES Act"**:
- This is partially accurate but misleading. The Supreme Court did not categorically forbid student loan forgiveness; rather, it ruled that the HEROES Act did not provide sufficient authority for such sweeping debt cancellation. The administration's new plan under the HEA is narrower in scope and targets specific groups of borrowers, such as those facing financial hardship or who have been repaying loans for decades[1][3][5]. The shift to the HEA reflects an effort to address the Court's concerns about overreach under the HEROES Act.

3. **Key Differences in Legal Approach**:
- The HEROES Act was tied to national emergencies (e.g., COVID-19), which the Court found insufficient to justify broad loan forgiveness. The HEA provides a more general authority for loan adjustments but requires a formal rulemaking process, which the administration is pursuing to strengthen its legal position[1][3][7].

4. **Oversimplification**:
- The statement implies that the administration is merely attempting to bypass the Supreme Court's decision without addressing its legal concerns. In reality, the new plan represents a narrower approach and follows a more involved regulatory process designed to withstand legal scrutiny[1][3].

While it is true that the Biden administration cited a different law (the HEA) after the Supreme Court's rejection of its original plan under the HEROES Act, framing it as simply "doing what SCOTUS forbade" oversimplifies both the legal nuances and differences in scope between the two plans.

Citations:
[1]
www.cnbc.com
[2] crsreports.congress.gov
[3] apnews.com
[4] www.ncsl.org
[5] www.pbs.org
[6] www.insidehighered.com
[7] www.cnbc.com
[8] en.wikipedia.org

This is so easy, you ------- ----.

#262 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:12 AM | Reply

"Not once have you backed your argument with legitimate context let alone facts. EVERY single time I provide exactly that."

I've addressed you so-called "facts" and have done so without having to provide a bunch of left-wing links (nothing wrong with providing sources, BTW).

I am not going to retype the same thing over and over.

Move forward or ---- off.

#263 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:13 AM | Reply

So stop with the libelous accusation.
#261 | Posted by BellRinger

LOL Right. Libelous accusation while you ignore the crucial context provided to you here, that which you CHOOSE to ignore.

---- man, explain to me why I bother with you.

#264 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:14 AM | Reply

I am well aware of the -------- legal 'reasoning' underlying Biden's defiance of the SCOTUS smack-down. He simply cited a different law to back up his power-grab to try to buy votes.

#265 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:15 AM | Reply

Hmmm....maybe because it didn't get brought back in front of SCOTUS again? It was implemented as campaign season was getting underway.

#243 | Posted by BellRinger

Nonsense.

More targeted loan forgiveness started immediately following the overreach (yes,I think the broad forgiveness as overreach and should have been prohibited by SCOTUS; I even said here I disagreed with it even though I would benefit from it).

Every batch of forgiven loans were due to the Biden administration making good on existing forgiveness programs that had already been welched on by previous administrations, ie Trump, as the public service loan forgiveness was from a law passed in 2007 by GWB (Requires 10 years of payents...where does 10 years place that program's participants?).

Loans for for profit schools that had already been ruled on as being forgivable but DeVos refused to discharge. Loans that met forgiveness criteria but were simply ignored or continued on repayment because of loan servicing company negligence or fraud (usually the same thing, "poor record keeping" is a notorious excuse in that business). Loans that met forgiveness thresholds but for whatever reason didn't have the necessary payment numbers recorded.

All of the forgiveness programs enacted after the SCOTUS decision was well within the power of a POTUS to force a government agency to perform as intended by their statutory mandate under federal law.

Again, you've been corrected on this tons of times. Stop chirping ignorant bulls(*&.

#266 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:17 AM | Reply

"I'm right and you're wrong. Nyah!" isn't a correction of anything, moron.

#250 | Posted by BellRinger

Jesus Christ what a buffoon.

No wonder you love Trump.

#267 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:17 AM | Reply

"Libelous accusation while you ignore..."

The libelous accusation is you accusing me of bashing homosexuality and being homophobic. I am not and never have been. Say that to my face and be prepared to duck to avoid a punch.

#268 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:17 AM | Reply

Move forward or ---- off.
#263 | Posted by BellRinger

"move forward" as in "fall in line with the cult or else!", right?

You haven't logically refuted a single point on this thread, simply relying on emotional BS as refutation. It's ------- hilarious that you deem yourself intellectually superior when the evidence against said suggestion is routinely thrown in your face.

#269 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:18 AM | Reply

I am very familiar with the twisted legal justification the administration came up with to circumvent the SCOTUS ruling.

#242 | Posted by BellRinger

You don't even know how the programs work.

You aren't familiar with s(*&, other that that which comes of Trump's pie hole on a regular basis.

#270 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:18 AM | Reply

"yes,I think the broad forgiveness as overreach and should have been prohibited by SCOTUS;"

Well, that's a crucial piece of clarification.

#271 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:19 AM | Reply

Which is every bit as accurate of a statement as you being accused of working middle stall ---------- at truck stops.

#248 | Posted by BellRinger

Swing and a miss, dips(*&.

Keeping that losing streak alive.

#272 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:20 AM | Reply

@#265 ... I am well aware of the -------- legal 'reasoning' underlying Biden's defiance of the SCOTUS smack-down. ...

Please provide evidence and links.

I ask because that seems to be a MAGA talking point, always asserted, but never substantiated.

So I ask, got evidence and got links?

thx.



#273 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-20 01:20 AM | Reply

"All of the forgiveness programs enacted after the SCOTUS decision was well within the power of a POTUS to force a government agency to perform as intended by their statutory mandate under federal law."

On a case-by-case basis only after proven that the lender violated lending law and/or mislead a borrower. It was never set up for any kind of blanket forgiveness like it was some kind of class-action lawsuit.

#274 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 01:22 AM | Reply

All of the forgiveness programs enacted after the SCOTUS decision was well within the power of a POTUS to force a government agency to perform as intended by their statutory mandate under federal law.
Again, you've been corrected on this tons of times. Stop chirping ignorant bulls(*&.
#266 | Posted by jpw

The statement contains partial truth but oversimplifies the legal landscape.

Key Context from the Supreme Court's 2023 Ruling
The Supreme Court rejected Biden's original $430 billion forgiveness plan in *Biden v. Nebraska* (2023), ruling it exceeded statutory authority under the **HEROES Act**[1][4][5]. The Court emphasized that "waive or modify" under the HEROES Act did not authorize sweeping debt cancellation, calling it a "novel and fundamentally different program"[5].

Post-SCOTUS Loan Forgiveness Programs
After the ruling, the Biden administration pursued narrower debt relief through alternative statutory pathways, such as:
1. Revised Income-Driven Repayment Plans (e.g., the SAVE Plan): Adjusted repayment terms under the **Higher Education Act (HEA)** to cap monthly payments at 5% of discretionary income.
2. Targeted Forgiveness for Specific Groups:
- Borrowers defrauded by for-profit colleges (*Borrower Defense to Repayment*)
- Public servants via the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) program
- Borrowers with disabilities or long-term repayment histories

These programs rely on **existing statutory authority** explicitly granted by Congress, such as:
- The HEA's provisions for "compromise, waiver, or release" of loans[3].
- The PSLF program established by Congress in 2007[3].

Accuracy of the Claim
- Partially Correct: Many post-2023 forgiveness measures operate under **longstanding statutory authority** (e.g., PSLF, Borrower Defense) that Congress explicitly authorized. These programs align with the Court's directive to avoid overreach.
- Overly Broad: The claim ignores that some post-2023 efforts (e.g., a 2025 Eighth Circuit case) were struck down for exceeding statutory limits, similar to the original plan[2]. Courts have repeatedly ruled that unilateral mass forgiveness without congressional approval remains unconstitutional.

Legal Boundaries
- Executive Power: The president can direct agencies to implement congressionally authorized programs but cannot invent new ones. For example, the HEA allows incremental adjustments (e.g., adjusting repayment terms) but not blanket debt cancellation[3][5].
- Ongoing Challenges: Even narrower programs face lawsuits. In 2025, the Eighth Circuit blocked a $188.8 billion forgiveness effort, reaffirming that the executive branch lacks "unilateral authority to erase hundreds of billions in debt"[2].

The statement oversimplifies by implying all post-2023 forgiveness programs were lawful. While many targeted relief efforts (e.g., PSLF) fall within statutory mandates, others (like the 2025 plan) repeated the overreach the Supreme Court condemned. The administration's authority remains contingent on specific congressional authorization, not unilateral executive power.

Citations:
[1]
www.texastribune.org
[2] www.mackinac.org
[3] sc.edu
[4] www.nasfaa.org
[5] www.scotusblog.com
[

#275 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's hilarious to me to watch hard-core lefties turn against Schumer for preventing his party from being responsible for a government shut-down.

You all keep being you. It's priceless.

#254 | Posted by BellRinger

LOL it's hilarious watching you spout ignorance while smugly acting as if you're informed.

1. I'm not a "hard-core leftist"
2. My dislike of Schumer and desire for his retirement long precedes any recent events
3. Of course, you swallow the Repub line that it would be a Dem caused shutdown

Go to bed. You're on the ropes.

#276 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:24 AM | Reply

I was mocking the banality of accusing JPW of being a --------- hound, you complete and absolute clown-shht.

#256 | Posted by BellRinger

You've made those remarks yourself when cornered.

Less frequently than lfthnds*(&bag and fortdumbf(*&, but only because you're less easily cornered.

But you've still gone there rather than fade gracefully into the sunset.

So spare us any supposed claims of "mocking the banality" of your own behavior. It only signals you're on the ropes and are hoping to ingratiate your way into a bit of breathing space.

#277 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:28 AM | Reply

So stop with the libelous accusation.

#261 | Posted by BellRinger

Doth protest too much.

#278 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:31 AM | Reply

and have done so without having to provide a bunch of left-wing links

There's the usual cop out.

#279 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:32 AM | Reply

The statement contains some accurate points but also oversimplifies the legal framework and intent behind student loan forgiveness programs. Here's a detailed analysis:

### **"All of the forgiveness programs enacted after the SCOTUS decision was well within the power of a POTUS to force a government agency to perform as intended by their statutory mandate under federal law."**

1. Accuracy of Post-SCOTUS Programs:
- After the Supreme Court struck down President Biden's original mass forgiveness plan under the HEROES Act (*Biden v. Nebraska*), the administration shifted its focus to narrower programs authorized by existing statutes, such as the **Higher Education Act (HEA)** and other targeted relief mechanisms.
- These programs, such as Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), Borrower Defense to Repayment, and relief for borrowers with disabilities, operate within statutory mandates explicitly granted by Congress. Therefore, they align with federal law and are generally considered within the president's authority to direct agencies like the Department of Education to implement.

2. Legal Challenges:
- While many post-SCOTUS forgiveness efforts comply with statutory mandates, critics argue that some actions (e.g., invoking broad HEA authority for new forgiveness plans) stretch the limits of executive power. For example, ongoing legal challenges claim that these actions are attempts to circumvent *Biden v. Nebraska* and may still exceed statutory authority.

"On a case-by-case basis only after proven that the lender violated lending law and/or misled a borrower.

1. Borrower Defense to Repayment:
- This program allows forgiveness on a case-by-case basis when borrowers can prove they were defrauded or misled by their schools. This aligns with federal law and is not blanket forgiveness but targeted relief for specific harm.
- However, this principle does not apply universally to all post-SCOTUS forgiveness efforts. Other programs, like PSLF or income-driven repayment adjustments (e.g., SAVE Plan), are not based on lender misconduct but rather on long-standing statutory provisions.

"It was never set up for any kind of blanket forgiveness like it was some kind of class-action lawsuit."

1. Mass Forgiveness vs. Targeted Relief:
- The Supreme Court ruled in *Biden v. Nebraska* that broad-based loan forgiveness under the HEROES Act exceeded executive authority because it constituted a "major question" requiring clear congressional authorization.
- However, targeted relief programs (e.g., PSLF, Borrower Defense) are not blanket forgiveness but are designed to address specific borrower circumstances under existing laws.

2. Higher Education Act Authority:
- The Biden administration's post-SCOTUS strategy includes exploring broader forgiveness through the HEA's provision allowing the Secretary of Education to "compromise, waive, or release" loans. Critics argue this could resemble blanket forgiveness if applied broadly, but it is subject to a formal rulemaking process and is narrower than the original HEROES Act plan.

The statement is partially accurate but oversimplifies important distinctions:
- Post-SCOTUS programs like PSLF and Borrower Defense operate within statutory mandates and are not blanket forgiveness.
- Broader efforts under the HEA may face legal challenges if perceived as circumventing *Biden v. Nebraska*.
- The claim that all relief must be case-by-case based on lender misconduct applies only to specific programs like Borrower Defense, not all forms of loan forgiveness.

#280 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:35 AM | Reply

Citations:
[1]
www.texastribune.org
[2] www.nasfaa.org
[3] www.scotusblog.com
[4] protectborrowers.org
[5] fedsoc.org
[6] www.cato.org
[7] library.nclc.org
[8] www.cnn.com

#281 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:35 AM | Reply

Oh, and BTW JEFF, swallow it.

#282 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 01:37 AM | Reply

You haven't logically refuted a single point on this thread

Or...ever...

#283 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:44 AM | Reply

Well, that's a crucial piece of clarification.

#271 | Posted by BellRinger

That is something I stated then and is something I've reiterated over time on at least a few occasions.

If that's new to you, maybe you should ease off the trigger.

#284 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:46 AM | Reply

On a case-by-case basis only after proven that the lender violated lending law and/or mislead a borrower. It was never set up for any kind of blanket forgiveness like it was some kind of class-action lawsuit.

#274 | Posted by BellRinger

Dude. The original forgiveness WAS because of a class action lawsuit IIRC.

The problem has been the enactment of the judgement has been stop start because some administrations (*cough*repuglicans*gouch*) want to use student loans as a debt prison to fund tax cuts.

Hence why DoE under Biden could grant forgiveness to people waiting for it because DeVry was a POS.

#285 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#275 | Posted by rstybeach11

You should link whatever AI platform you're using to generate those posts.

#286 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:52 AM | Reply

#280 | Posted by rstybeach11

See above.

#287 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 01:54 AM | Reply

So., if I understand you correctly - Student loans are fraudulent and the taxpayers should fund them.

I hope my understanding is wrong.

#288 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 02:23 AM | Reply

I hope my understanding is wrong.

#288 | Posted by BellRinger

I'm sorry, but the only conclusion I can take from this disingenuous question is you're stupid or dishonest.

#289 | Posted by jpw at 2025-03-20 02:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

@#288 ...I hope my understanding is wrong. ..

Does your current alias realy hope for that?

Or is it just doing it's apparent usual trolling for replies?

#290 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-20 02:52 AM | Reply

Gladly...

perplexity.ai

Enjoy

#291 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2025-03-20 03:34 AM | Reply

@#291 ... perplexity.ai ...

Yeah, I won't click on that.

But when I pop it into google, I see ...

... Perplexity is a free AI-powered answer engine that provides accurate, trusted, and real-time answers to any question.

Getting Started
Perplexity is the perfect teacher, learn a new skill or concept ...


Yeah, maybe I do not necessarily agree with that ..


#292 | Posted by LampLighter at 2025-03-20 04:09 AM | Reply

"Student loans are fraudulent"

Where's the fraud?

Did you mean Mohela, the loan servicing company, defrauded student loan recipients?

MOHELA Was Caught Lying to Student Loan Borrowers, and Now it is Quietly Forcing Them to Waive Their Rights
protectborrowers.org

#293 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 08:36 AM | Reply

When Biden bragged about defying SCOTUS (in this case we are talking about a single federal judge with an ideological axe to grind, not SCOTUS) over student loan forgiveness, you all cheered it on.
#24 | Posted by BellRinger

I'm just glad some Democrats have figured out that Republicans aren't going to listen to you anymore and there's nothing you can do to stop them.
Keep having your activist judges flail there arms in the air and we will just keep laughing.
#36 | Posted by Bluewaffles

Judge Boasberg was SC Justice Kavanaugh's roommate in law school and was first appointed to the federal bench by George W. Bush. Roberts appointed him to the FISA court:

During Boasberg's formal investiture ceremony elevating him to a federal judge, he sat beside Brett Kavanaugh, his close friend and housemate at Yale Law School and then a federal appeals judge in the D.C. Circuit. Kavanaugh conducted the rites at the ceremony.

www.nbcnews.com$3p=e_sailthru&_branch_match_id=1431258110183286659

Sorkel @sorkel3.bsky.social

In recent years, Judge Boasberg has:

- ordered the release of Hillary's emails

- ensured Trump's tax returns never became public

- restricted disclosure from the Mueller investigation

- limited disclosure of grand jury material in the Trump classified docs case.

The resistance, he ain't.

#294 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2025-03-20 09:40 AM | Reply

Maybe having one of his close friends targeted by Trump and MAGA will cause Kavanaugh to rethink his support for making Trump into a king. We can only hope Kavanaugh, Roberts and ACB think twice before giving DonOLD carte blanche in all the cases that will be coming before them regarding Trump and his bid for unfettered executive powers.

#295 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2025-03-20 09:57 AM | Reply

"The libelous accusation is you accusing me of bashing homosexuality and being homophobic"

You have stated repeatedly that gay marriage should not have been legalized.
It is a true accusation.
You are homophobic.

#296 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:04 PM | Reply

"Maybe having one of his close friends targeted by Trump and MAGA will cause Kavanaugh to rethink his support for making Trump into a king."

That's what the blackout drinking is for.

#297 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:05 PM | Reply

" You have stated repeatedly that gay marriage should not have been legalized.

#296 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2025-03-20 06:04 PM | FLAG: "

Nope. Never. You lying sack of shht.

#298 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sure you have.

Remind us why Obergefell was "horribly adjudicated," for old times sake!

#299 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:21 PM | Reply

I'm sorry, but the only conclusion I can take from this disingenuous question is you're stupid and dishonest.
#289 | POSTED BY JPW

Yes, he is.

#300 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-20 06:25 PM | Reply

Some laws are bad laws, but not unconstitutional.

DOMA falls into this category. On a personal level I was glad SCOTUS killed it but I think their reasons J6 was wrong.

This level of nuance may be far beyond your barista-level of understanding of how things work to grasp.

#301 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:36 PM | Reply

I hate auto correct.

I think their reasoning was wrong.

#302 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:36 PM | Reply

"Some laws are bad laws, but not unconstitutional."

This is you, admitting your opposition to legalizatiom of gay marriage isn't supported by law.

#303 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:39 PM | Reply

You have it 180 degrees backward but you keep being you.

#304 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:40 PM | Reply

JeffJ
You've proxied away the issue of gay marriage.

You've attempted to replace it with a simulacrum of what is the proper way to go about legal proceedings. This substitution serves you.

But the simulacrum bears no resemblance to the issue at hand, which is equal rights for pairs of adults wishing to create a marriage contract under state law.

#305 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That word salad would make Kamala Harris proud.

#306 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:46 PM | Reply

"I think their reasoning was wrong."

And that's why you are against gay marriage.

If you decided Obergefell, gay marriage would be illegal, and that makes you against gay marriage, in both the letter and the spirit of the law.

This brief reminisce has reached a fitting end.

#307 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 06:47 PM | Reply

There are a lot of laws I disagree with that pass Constitutional muster.

Undoubtedly you hate certain states that have passed laws banning males from competing in women's sports but I don't think you will try to make the argument that said laws are unconstitutional.

This is getting tedious. I opposed DOMA but didn't and don't think it was unconstitutional.

#308 | Posted by BellRinger at 2025-03-20 06:54 PM | Reply

"There are a lot of laws I disagree with that pass Constitutional muster."

I know.
Exhibit A: Obergfell.

#309 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 07:03 PM | Reply

There are a lot of laws I disagree with that pass Constitutional muster.

Like Brown vs the Board of Education.

#310 | Posted by ClownShack at 2025-03-20 07:29 PM | Reply

"Undoubtedly you hate certain states that have passed laws banning males from competing in women's sports"

I don't blame the entire state for that. It's just a few malcontent Republicans.
It's almost the same playbook as the Bakersfield Satanic Ritual Sex Abuse con that the Republicans scared our parents with.
Completely manufactured. Never happened. It dominated the nightly news for weeks. A propaganda masterpiece.

But for you, trans obsession has dominated your thought for a decade now!

The Republican Leaders decided this was a threat, and all the Republican Followers went along with it.
Republican Followers didn't need to see any evidence.
If they did, it was readily manufactured on the Internet.

#311 | Posted by snoofy at 2025-03-20 07:36 PM | Reply

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