Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 17, 2024

More than 1,000 people, including Hezbollah fighters and medics, were wounded on Tuesday when the pagers they use to communicate exploded across Lebanon, security sources told Reuters.

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Mossad doing the Mossad thing. This is going to go down as one of the biggest cyber military operations in history. Just wild!

#1 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 12:02 PM | Reply

It's not all bad news for Hezbollah, the unused family plan minutes can roll over to next month.

#2 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-09-17 12:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

The streets of Lebanon are filled with terroristicles!

#3 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 12:22 PM | Reply

Israel will Whine when something similar is done to them.

These type of actions never stay exclusive to one party in a conflict.

#4 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-17 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Israel will Whine when something similar is done to them."

How do you know Israel did it?

...

These type of actions never stay exclusive to one party in a conflict.

#4 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

They do if one only party is stupid enough to use explodable pagers as their primary means of communication.

#5 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 01:47 PM | Reply

As of this writing, 2800 injured/ 9 dead

#6 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-17 02:01 PM | Reply

As of this writing, 2800 injured/ 9 dead

#6 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

Ouch!

9 dead? There was something else in those "pagers" besides tiny batteries.

#7 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 02:08 PM | Reply

Donner, I'm watching Steve Lookner's live coverage about it on Agenda Free TV.

#8 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-17 02:59 PM | Reply

Hezbollah vows to punish Israel after pager explosions across Lebanon
www.reuters.com

... Militant group Hezbollah promised to retaliate against Israel after accusing it of detonating pagers across Lebanon on Tuesday, killing at least eight people and wounding nearly 3,000 others who included fighters and Iran's envoy to Beirut.

Lebanese Information Minister Ziad Makary condemned the late afternoon detonation of the pagers -- handheld devices that Hezbollah and others in Lebanon use to send messages -- as an "Israeli aggression". Hezbollah said Israel would receive "its fair punishment" for the blasts. ...

Hezbollah fighters have been using pagers as a low-tech means of communication in the belief they could evade Israeli location tracking, two sources familiar with the group's operations told Reuters earlier this year. A pager is a wireless telecommunications device that receives and displays messages. ...

In one instance, closed-circuit surveillance video carried by regional broadcasters showed a person paying at a grocery store as what appeared to be a small handheld device placed next to the cashier exploded. ...

The casualties included Hezbollah fighters who are the sons of top officials from the armed group, two security sources told Reuters. One of those killed was the son of a Hezbollah member of the Lebanese parliament, Ali Ammar, they said.

"This is not a security targeting of one, two or three people. This is a targeting of an entire nation," senior Hezbollah official Hussein Khalil said while paying his condolences for Ammar's son.

Lebanese broadcaster Al Jadeed cited Ammar as promising consequences. "We will deal with the enemy in the language it understands," he added. ...




#9 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-17 03:31 PM | Reply

"Vows to punish"

It's a shaping operation designed to sideline Hezbollah middle management before a major attack.

#10 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-17 03:45 PM | Reply

and blowing the --------- off of hundreds of people is a pretty good way to do that.

#11 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-17 03:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Another Crime, more escalation. It never stops, does it?

Cowardly tactics,.. nothing admirable or clever here,just -------- killing blindly.

If cellphones started exploding in Israel or the US I'm sure the usual people here would be apoplectic about the Horror of it.

#12 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-17 03:46 PM | Reply

Pagers? (Ignoring it's no longer 1997)

How does one make a pager explode?

#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-17 03:57 PM | Reply

Those things blew up like mini-teslas.

#14 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2024-09-17 04:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

While it's damned hard to feel much sympathy for members of Hezbollah, Israel can hardly claim clean hands for the current mess. I don't see this leading to a better situation for Israel, or for the world. Just more death and destruction.

#15 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How does one make a pager explode?
#13 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-17 03:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The same way you make a centrifuge explode. Add stuff at the factory level.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-17 04:14 PM | Reply

Did hezbollah buy their pagers from mossad?

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-17 04:16 PM | Reply


Did hezbollah buy their pagers from mossad?
#17 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

That's the theory, somewhere in the supply chain.

Also Mossad probably help subsidize the costs so they were purchased.

Gotta be leery of those "work for Hezbollah get 50% off sales".

#18 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 04:26 PM | Reply


Pagers? (Ignoring it's no longer 1997)

Mossad started targeting Hezbollah leadership through cellphones useage, so Hezbollah moved to pagers.

#19 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 04:28 PM | Reply

Now they're hezballsoff.

#20 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-09-17 04:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 8

I hope Hezbollah got a good price on those.

Crazy-Eddie

#21 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-17 04:30 PM | Reply

Cowardly tactics,.. nothing admirable or clever here,just -------- killing blindly.

Cowardly ... yes
Clever ... yes

It's a shaping operation designed to sideline Hezbollah middle management before a major attack.

By which side?

I would imagine this being a war crime. Only in the sense that they couldn't determine the victim was or wasn't Hezbollah/ legitimate enemy.

#22 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 04:30 PM | Reply

#10 - newsworthy. It certainly has the appearance of a preliminary attack before something larger is unleashed.

#23 | Posted by moder8 at 2024-09-17 04:35 PM | Reply

Thinkin the IDF is going to enter Lebanon very soon. The place is chaos, Hezbollah communications are compromised, over 1000 injured.

This is some real super spy ----. Incredible.

#24 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-09-17 04:37 PM | Reply

#22. Was poisoning Tylenol in stores so random people would die horrible deaths, "Clever"?

It was a Monstrous Crime against random people just living their lives.

Israel excels at just this kind of "Cleverness".

That's why I hope they get Driven into the Sea.... So "Palestine will be Free, from the River to the Sea".

#25 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-17 04:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Buying used Pagers from JewishLasersandPagers.com may not have been their best purchasing decision.

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-17 04:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

RE:#25

#22. Was poisoning Tylenol in stores so random people would die horrible deaths, "Clever"?

Educate me, are we talking about 1982? Where 8 seven people died after taking cyanide-laced Tylenol capsules?

Why would that be clever? Is it difficult to do?

You're like a 10yo with you faux outrage.

#27 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 04:57 PM | Reply

EP is OUTRAGED! about Vlad invading Ukraine by TARGETING CIVILIANS!

SO much so that he demands that Ukraine surrender.

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-17 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Exploding Pagers in Lebanon Spur Theories on Sabotage Method
www.bnnbloomberg.ca

... From the moment pagers began exploding across Lebanon Tuesday, theories began to circulate on how devices considered outmoded in much of the world were turned into dangerous weapons that killed several people and wounded almost 3,000.

As Lebanon accused Israel of engineering the attack aimed at Hezbollah militants, much of the debate centered on the possibility that the supply chain for the retro devices had been compromised. One prevailing idea was that the pagers had been engineered so that their batteries would heat up until the devices exploded.

Overheating of the batteries indicated "foul play," Lebanon's Telecommunications Minister Johnny Corm told Bloomberg.

But one cybersecurity expert, Robert Graham, dismissed that theory. He said on X that "making batteries do anything more than burn is very hard and implausible. Far more plausible is that somebody bribed the factory to insert the explosives."

Among the other theories was that an electronic signal triggered the explosions.

"If true, I suspect it was an intentional physical defect enabled by cyber" or a radio frequency signal, said Mark Montgomery, a retired admiral and executive director of the Cyberspace Solarium Commission.

Hezbollah's Al-Manar television showed what it said were images of Motorola pagers that were being used before the attack. "These pagers were detonated with high-tech by the Israeli enemy," Hezbollah lawmaker Ibrahim Mousawi told the group's TV network.

Motorola Solutions Inc. didn't immediately respond to Bloomberg's requests for comment.

Supply-Chain Deployment' ...


#29 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-17 04:59 PM | Reply


That's why I hope they get Driven into the Sea.... So "Palestine will be Free, from the River to the Sea".
#25 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

I hope Israel kicks the snot out of all Muslims wishing them harm.

#30 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 05:00 PM | Reply

Overheating of the batteries indicated "foul play,"

It needed more than this, but this was probably the fuse/primer. Which is ironic because PETN is what I heard was the explosive compound.

#31 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 05:03 PM | Reply

Which is ironic because PETN is what I heard was the explosive compound.

I'll bite... what's ironic about that?

#32 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-09-17 05:21 PM | Reply

It was a Monstrous Crime against random people just living their lives.

These were apparently pagers purchased by Hezbolla for Hezbolla. Not "random people".

Hezbolla is a terrorist organization.

So they "were just living their lives" terrorizing Israelis for a terrorist organization.

They knew what they signed up for.

#33 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 05:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

These were apparently pagers purchased by Hezbolla for Hezbolla. Not "random people".

And none went to a family member or child?

It's collateral damage.

Like the fireman killed in order to stage a fake assassination attempt on Trump.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-17 05:30 PM | Reply

"And none went to a family member or child?"

Good question. Are terrorists that dumb? Probably. If I was a terrorist I would never give my cool spy stuff to my kids. But I am sure it happens in terror land. Also if I was a terrorist I probably would refrain from having kids ... or loved ones ... or pets ... if I was a terrorist. They are way too clingy and needy and as you noted vulnerable to unintended collateral damage.

#35 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 05:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-17 05:38 PM | Reply

I forgot the most important thing. My advice for effenpuffer!

My advice is don't be a terrorist if you don't want random ---- blowing up around you.

#37 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 05:40 PM | Reply

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

#36 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

The US State Department designated Hizballah as a foreign terrorist organization in October 1997. More than 60 other countries and organizations, including the EU, the Arab League, and the Gulf Cooperation Council, have also designated Hizballah"either in part or in its entirety"as a terrorist group.

#38 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-17 05:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

I designate Israel to be a Terrorist State. So what?

I designate the US to be a Terrorist State. So what?

I designate NATO to be a Terrorist Organization. So What?

#39 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-17 07:43 PM | Reply

So Russia is a terrorist state... and you lie about that.

Ask Syria, Crimea, Georgia, Ukraine.... and more.

#40 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-17 07:49 PM | Reply

@#40 ... So Russia is a terrorist state... and you lie about that. ...

Yeah.

That current alias' posts seem to be little more than those of a Putin hand puppet.

I mean, it's comments of late have become more humorous in their inanity than anything else.


#41 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-17 07:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The NYT has identified the specific pager used. I can imagine deep discounts ...

""

Huge blowout sale on pagers!

Tired of getting wrong numbers? The coveted Gold Apollo AP924 only allows 100 percent trustworthy messages* to reach your pager. This is technology that will blow you away!

*As rated by our research firm in Tel Aviv. Results may vary. See hospital for details.

#42 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 08:05 PM | Reply

They're saying it was done by a Mossad agent named Moti Rola & his Asian partner Mr. Sam Sung.
x.com

#43 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 08:16 PM | Reply


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
#36 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

My only issue with this is that Muslims aren't fighting for freedom.

#44 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 08:17 PM | Reply

#39 | POSTED BY EFFETEPOSER

Maybe a better question might be "Who do you NOT consider a terrorist state?"

#45 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 08:18 PM | Reply

These were apparently pagers purchased by Hezbolla for Hezbolla. Not "random people".

You gotta link for that?

#46 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 08:19 PM | Reply

Final thought on the topic :

As someone who works in the tech field, if you're not profoundly disturbed by this story, you don't understand it.

The implications are massive.

#47 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-17 08:21 PM | Reply

#47

For once I agree with you. This is big. We're not just talking about viruses and credit card hacks anymore when it comes to technology. Now we have to worry about whether we're going to be killed by our devices.

#48 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 08:33 PM | Reply

More on the pagers.
www.aol.com

#49 | Posted by cbob at 2024-09-17 08:36 PM | Reply

#45 Brazil,Cuba,Japan,South Korea,India many smaller states. In Africa. South America.

Bolivia, Uruguay, Panama. Etc.

#50 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-17 08:40 PM | Reply

@#47 ... if you're not profoundly disturbed by this story, you don't understand it.

The implications are massive. ...

Yeah. And "massive" may be an understatement.

A question on my mind, how did Israel apparently get into a supply chain?

OK, that aside, your current alias may want to save this post. :)

I agree with what I quoted 100%.


#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-17 09:51 PM | Reply

"Now we have to worry about whether we're going to be killed by our devices."

Do you have a cellphone? If so, it can be used to kill you.

Using a cell phone for geolocation is something that I suspect even Iran has the technology for nowadays. What they lack is the ability to take action on it anywhere outside of their local area.

#52 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-09-18 01:55 AM | Reply

@#52 ... Using a cell phone for geolocation is something that I suspect even Iran has the technology for nowadays. ...

Iran?

Geolocation via a cell phone is not even a country-level aberration nowadays.

When you go into a department store, your cell-phone is being tracked, looking at the areas you visit and how long you stay in those areas.

How Retail Stores Track You Using Your Smartphone (and How to Stop It) (2013)
lifehacker.com

That article was from 10 years ago. The stores have gotten better at it since then, imo.


#53 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-18 02:03 AM | Reply

@#53

Indeed, from the article I posted previously...

#29
www.bnnbloomberg.ca

... Hezbollah operatives use low-tech devices such as pagers and walkie-talkies to avoid interceptions of their communications by Israeli intelligence. They can send encrypted messages without giving away their location. ...


Pagers tend to be more of a one-way device, as opposed to cell-phones that always seem to be saying to the mothership, ~here is where I am,~ among other things.

#54 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-09-18 02:21 AM | Reply

If you encapsulate petn in a fake capacitor it will make it through airport security and fool the dogs.

Then your pager beeps for the message so you pick it up and then when you pick it up it blows your face off.

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 09:30 AM | Reply

The same way you make a centrifuge explode. Add stuff at the factory level.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg

The big question is for how many pagers was stuff added? Do you really think it was ONLY added to ones Hezbollah used? That none of those got repurposed or sold or lost or stolen? So it seems very likely that Israel just set off the ones that they knew were being used by a "bad guy". So how many "good guys" are walking around with bombs in their pockets?

#56 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2024-09-18 09:46 AM | Reply

In this report, 19 IRGC members in Syria were also killed in the pager attack(?!). An ounce of PETN is worth a pound of land war.

www.jpost.com

#57 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 09:51 AM | Reply

If you still own a pager and it didn't go off and you live in Lebanon... You still holding it? No. If you are too dumb, can't help you.

#58 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 09:57 AM | Reply

"Do you really think it was ONLY added to ones Hezbollah used? That none of those got repurposed or sold or lost or stolen?"

Do you know anyone who is in the market for a pager? I don't.

Pagers are value added for people who want a receive-only message system that doesn't emit a unique or detectable signature. They're sorta useless for everyone else.

#59 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-09-18 10:08 AM | Reply

#59 I've only seen one report of an innocent's death - an 8 year old girl. Probably picked up dad's pager when it went off. Otherwise, the targeting seems very precise. Of course, shrapnel injuries to innocent bystanders probably occurred in many cases.

#60 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 10:14 AM | Reply

AND more explosions of "communication devices" today in Lebanon.....

www.reuters.com

#61 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 10:30 AM | Reply

....including an explosion at a funeral arranged by Hezbollah for those killed in the first attack. Mercy!

#62 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 10:32 AM | Reply

Leave it to the DR to pretend this isn't a clear war crime and terrorist attack.

If anyone did this to Israel, it would be called a second October 7th.

#63 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 10:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#63 What makes you think so? The targeting is far more precise than dropping 5000 pound bombs from 40,000 feet - far less potential for collateral civilian casualties.

#64 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 10:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

2,700 wounded yesterday.
12 killed yesterday.
Hospitals in Lebanon are filled and overflowing.
More ambulances on their way today.

#65 | Posted by YAV at 2024-09-18 11:05 AM | Reply

NOW thousands of Hezbollah walkie-talkies are exploding:

nypost.com

#66 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 11:22 AM | Reply

"Do you know anyone who is in the market for a pager? I don't"

Doctors, EMTs, anyone else on standby who needs to differentiate urgent notifications at a far higher priority than they would on their phones.

Possibly also people who work or spend a lot of time in places where there is little or no cellphone reception.

#67 | Posted by Sentinel at 2024-09-18 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Now they're blowing up walkie-talkies

#68 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-09-18 11:32 AM | Reply

69!!!!!!!!!!!

#69 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2024-09-18 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lee, you scamp.

#70 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 11:53 AM | Reply

#63 What makes you think so? The targeting is far more precise than dropping 5000 pound bombs from 40,000 feet - far less potential for collateral civilian casualties.

#64 | Posted by Karabekian

WTF are you talking about?

The pagers go off wherever they are. This includes at home with family, out in a market, etc. There are a ton of civilians injured and at least one killed as collateral damage.

You are also attacking political leaders and anyone randomly affiliated with the Hezbollah political party.

Intentionally directing attacks against individual civilians not taking a direct part in the hostilities is a war crime under Article 8(2)(b)(i) of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC).

Intentionally directing attacks with the knowledge it will cause clearly excessive incidental civilian harm is also a war crime under Article 8(2)(b)(iv) of the Rome Statute.

(And to your point: Dropping 5,000 pound bombs on civilian centers would also be a war crime. And it's been pointed out repeatedly.)

#71 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If anyone did this to Israel, it would be called a second October 7th.

#63 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Gotta love our armchair generals.

And it WAS called October 7th and on that day they partnered with Hamas to terrorize Israel while Hamas killed thousands and took hundreds of hostages and are still holding them. And hezbollah have aided the terrorists by continuing to attack Israel.

Is hezbollah attacking Israel?

Yes.

Then Israel has the right to defend itself.

Israel's stated goal was to stop or make it more difficult for hezbollah to attack them.

I would say that they accomplished that mission.

I bet it caused a lot less "collateral damage" than rolling in the tanks and bombing the city into rubble like in Gaza.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Bombing civilian centers still is not a war crime when done by the rules. Read the rules more carefully.

#73 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 12:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"You are also attacking political leaders and anyone randomly affiliated with the Hezbollah political party."

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Members of terrorist organizations are subject to arrest capture or being killed at any time or any place. When you join a terrorist organization you don't get to hide behind "politics".

#74 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 12:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sycophant, These pagers were from a shipment directed specifically to Hezbollah and its IRCG benefactors in Syria. Civilians were not targeted. Again, as you can see from my earlier response, I acknowledged the potential for civilian casualties. Again, small explosions on the persons of those carrying the devices are far less likely to affect innocent civilians than conventional bombs, rockets, missles, ground combat, etc. This tactic likely saved far more innocent civilians in the long run.

#75 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 12:08 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

9 killed, 300+ injured in second wave (reported so far).
That brings the total(s) to:
21 killed, 3,000+ injured.

#76 | Posted by YAV at 2024-09-18 12:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#63 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
Gotta love our armchair generals.
And it WAS called October 7th and on that day they partnered with Hamas to terrorize Israel while Hamas killed thousands and took hundreds of hostages and are still holding them. And hezbollah have aided the terrorists by continuing to attack Israel.
Is hezbollah attacking Israel?
Yes.
Then Israel has the right to defend itself.
Israel's stated goal was to stop or make it more difficult for hezbollah to attack them.
I would say that they accomplished that mission.
I bet it caused a lot less "collateral damage" than rolling in the tanks and bombing the city into rubble like in Gaza.
#72 | Posted by donnerboy
Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Members of terrorist organizations are subject to arrest capture or being killed at any time or any place. When you join a terrorist organization you don't get to hide behind "politics".
#74 | Posted by donnerboy

Quit with the boot licking.

Israel DOES have a right to defend itself. But it can't become a terrorist organization itself and flout international law. (Which it has been doing anyway)

Your line of reasoning literally could be used to justify October 7th.

October 7th, indescriminate killing in Gaza and the Pager attack are all wrong.

#77 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 12:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Ben-Badejo-tweet-small

#78 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-18 12:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I expect Israeli devices to start exploding.

Not immediately, but in the indefinite future.

When they do the people here gloating about this will be apoplectic about the War Crimes, of Israeli's getting blown up by their phones.

This is more proof that Israel is not a Civilized country. This is an obvious Terrorist attack. Not a legitimate War action.

Will Israel get listed as a Terrorist Organization now?

Or will everyone just congratulate them for being so "Clever"?

It's like Targeted Assassinations, such a "clever" thing until your own leaders start getting Snuffed.

Then it's Terrorism.

#79 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 12:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Or Nukes, a great "Deterrent" ,until one is detonated on your soil.

#80 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 12:39 PM | Reply

October 7th, indescriminate killing in Gaza and the Pager attack are all wrong.

#77 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Of course it's "wrong". It's war. A lot of wrong things will be done. On each side.

It's wonderful that you can sit back safe and smug and tell Israel how to defeat the terrorists who are threatening their very existence.

The terrorists that swear they will not negotiate and will not stop attacking you until you are dead or gone.

From the inception of Hezbollah to the present, the elimination of the State of Israel has been one of Hezbollah's primary goals. Some translations of Hezbollah's 1985 Arabic-language manifesto state that "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated".

#81 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 12:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Will Israel get listed as a Terrorist Organization now?"

Countries that accuse Israel of engaging in state-sponsored terrorism, include Bolivia, Iran, Lebanon, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, and Yemen.

Friends of yours?

#82 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 01:01 PM | Reply

October 7th, indescriminate killing in Gaza and the Pager attack are all wrong.
#77 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
Of course it's "wrong". It's war. A lot of wrong things will be done. On each side.
It's wonderful that you can sit back safe and smug and tell Israel how to defeat the terrorists who are threatening their very existence.
The terrorists that swear they will not negotiate and will not stop attacking you until you are dead or gone.
From the inception of Hezbollah to the present, the elimination of the State of Israel has been one of Hezbollah's primary goals. Some translations of Hezbollah's 1985 Arabic-language manifesto state that "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated".

#81 | Posted by donnerboy

Yes, and?

So Israel should engage in terrorism, kill/injure civilians and non-military, and just disregard the rules of war?

Does this mean that Hamas and Hezbolah can also do whatever they want without consequences? Maybe assassinating members of Israel's Likud? Chemical or Biological attacks? A dirty bomb?

Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. Can they result to these means?

Your argument literally just says everything is fair game.

#83 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 01:04 PM | Reply

#83 Just for giggles, explain what tactics are fair game to you, Sycophant?

#84 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 01:08 PM | Reply

In Total War it is.

Nuking Civilians is the AMERICAN WAY.

Nothing new about that. War Crimes are for little countries.

Superpowers Project Force and Control the Battle Space.

Lol.

Israel is an Honorary Superpower. They have big friends.

#85 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 01:12 PM | Reply

Your argument literally just says everything is fair game.

#83 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

No. I am not saying that.

But I also don't think this is a "war crime" either. Just as I didn't think us going into Afghanistan after terrorists and Obama droning the crap out of terrorists that attacked the U.S. and taking Osama from Pakistan and turning him into fish food was a war crime. I did not like the collateral damage then either. But when fighting terrorism you do have to take the gloves off and take chances and get your hands dirty.

It's no denying this was a major attack. This was amazing spy craft and impressive and probably saved thousands of lives if they had had to bomb Lebanon into rubble again. Which still may happen. But they have humiliated hezbollah destroyed their confidence and seriously damaged their communications networks and their ability to stage coordinated attacks. So maybe it won't.

Maybe Hezbolla will wise up and stop attacking and negotiate. I wouldn't hold my breath tho.

#86 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 01:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"the Horror of it" .. Watching little kids next to bombs makes me wonder what they did wrong other than being born at a place where people send pager bombs. I imagine the next set of pagers are clear plastic.

#87 | Posted by Brennnn at 2024-09-18 01:27 PM | Reply

Your argument literally just says everything is fair game.
#83 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
No. I am not saying that.
But I also don't think this is a "war crime" either. Just as I didn't think us going into Afghanistan after terrorists and Obama droning the crap out of terrorists that attacked the U.S. and taking Osama from Pakistan and turning him into fish food was a war crime. I did not like the collateral damage then either. But when fighting terrorism you do have to take the gloves off and take chances and get your hands dirty.
It's no denying this was a major attack. This was amazing spy craft and impressive and probably saved thousands of lives if they had had to bomb Lebanon into rubble again. Which still may happen. But they have humiliated hezbollah destroyed their confidence and seriously damaged their communications networks and their ability to stage coordinated attacks. So maybe it won't.
Maybe Hezbolla will wise up and stop attacking and negotiate. I wouldn't hold my breath tho.

#86 | Posted by donnerboy

I'm sorry but that's literally exactly what you said.

They went after political leaders and civilians not taking direct part in the direct hostilities as well. MOSSAD put explosive material in the phones, they weren't sure who was getting the phones, and they knew they would be exploding in civilian areas with collateral damage.

If Hamas or Hezbollah did this, you'd be freaking the hell out.

It's not comparable to Afghanistan. Bombing people taking part direct hostilities with smaller bombs and trying to avoid civilian casualties is wholly different.

How can you not understand the difference?

#88 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 01:37 PM | Reply

Now we have to worry about whether we're going to be killed by our devices.

#48 | POSTED BY CBOB

You should have already been worried.

Fast or slow your "devices" are already killing you.

#89 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 01:43 PM | Reply

In Total War it is.

#85 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 01:12 PM | Reply

You don't know what Total War means, it's going to be the teenage boy version of it.

Which means you have never read Clausewitz at length. Probably never even opened the book.

#90 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 01:44 PM | Reply

If you had read it, you would understand that Clausewitz died before completing his evolution to the indirect theory of warfare. You would also know that the lesson is Total War is not possible. War is constrained by politics.

#91 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 01:45 PM | Reply

They sound reminiscent of WW2 S-Mines and similar tactics ... devices designed to explode 3 feet off the ground to bust nuts, guts, and shred fingers... which is what those beepers could accomplish... sounds like someone is aiming to soften a target.

Tres guerilla war-ish... but let's not call it that...

I think Israel should be let off the chain...on their own... left to their own devices... they have all that moral high ground to fight for...

#92 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2024-09-18 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sigh. I suppose the IDF's only legitimate tactical option is to tickle terrorists to death with peacock feathers.

#93 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 01:53 PM | Reply

The same way you make a centrifuge explode.

Run them when they aren't properly balanced?

#94 | Posted by jpw at 2024-09-18 01:54 PM | Reply

So Israel should engage in terrorism, kill/injure civilians and non-military, and just disregard the rules of war?

It's a difficult question. If Israel was being attacked and on the verge of losing, I wouldn't mind this "pager" attack.

But the way things are now, regardless of what you call it (shaping action) its terrorism.

And I am a Israel supporter, but this is wrong, there's no two ways about it.

You would also know that the lesson is Total War is not possible.

I disagree, total war is throwing nukes around, and I would expect if Israel was about to be wiped out, they would send them, as I would expect any nation that has them.

#95 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-18 01:55 PM | Reply

They went after political leaders and civilians not taking direct part in the direct hostilities as well. MOSSAD put explosive material in the phones, they weren't sure who was getting the phones, and they knew they would be exploding in civilian areas with collateral damage.

They went after hezbollah. Terrorists. And anyone directly associated with terrorist.

They were not phones. They were pagers used exclusively by hezbollah. terrorists. In a war on terror it's never a good idea to pal around with terrorists.

And them exploding in civilian areas would still be less collateral damage than bombing Lebanon into rubble. With 500 pounders. All bombs cause casualties.

"If Hamas or Hezbollah did this, you'd be freaking the hell out."

Well they are terrorists so I am glad they did not think of it first. You know that they would have if they could have.

What makes you think I am not "freaking out". Just because I am calm and understanding doesn't mean i don't know what this means and the implications for the future. But now we know it can be done so now we can take appropriate actions to prevent it being used against us.

Just like when drones became a tool of terror this is now another way to kill humans.

I also understand that humans whose sole purpose in life is to kill you may need to be killed first.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 01:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


Sigh. I suppose the IDF's only legitimate tactical option is to tickle terrorists to death with peacock feathers.
#93 | POSTED BY KARABEKIAN

I know you're just joshing.

But I feel this is action is over the line.

Yet to be fair, if Hamas had done this to Israel, many here complaining, like Sycophant, would find some joy in it.

#97 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-18 01:57 PM | Reply

#96 Newsworthy. It will go ignored, unfortunately.

#98 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:01 PM | Reply

#97 Oneironaut, this tactic seems to be far more judicious than trying to bomb the same targets conventionally. I have absolutely no problem with it. It likely saved many civilian lives.
Hezbollah purposely rained rockets on Druze children playing soccer.
That's how they roll.
The Israelis have the moral high ground in this war. It's objectively so.

#99 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:07 PM | Reply

Nobody with any humanity at all finds joy in killing non combatants.

That's what psychopath losers like Netanyahu do.

This will change the way people use their phones. It will have economic fallout too.

Supply chain issues take on new urgency.

Israel won't negotiate and as long as the US and Western Europe continue to arm and fund them while giving diplomatic cover they will continue to be --------.

This ---- could stop if Israel got Embargoed.

#100 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 02:15 PM | Reply

Gotta love all the simps for Israel here.

When was the last time indiscriminately setting off explosions in public spaces was considered anything other than an act of terrorism?

#101 | Posted by jpw at 2024-09-18 02:15 PM | Reply

Israel lies about everything. They say they aren't bombing civilians,that the death tolls are bogus,that nobody in Gaza is starving etc.

All BS.

Objectively So.

#102 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 02:17 PM | Reply

Now "solar devices" are exploding?

#103 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:30 PM | Reply

Sigh. I suppose the IDF's only legitimate tactical option is to tickle terrorists to death with peacock feathers.

#93 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 01:53 PM | FLAG PPPFFFTTTTTT

Cambodia and Vietnam are still finding them left by the US Military terrorist forces... tax dollars still paying dividends too... half century later... Then there was that whole dumping dioxin on them thingie... the back spray from that killed my dad... friendly fire?

#104 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2024-09-18 02:33 PM | Reply

I disagree, total war is throwing nukes around, and I would expect if Israel was about to be wiped out, they would send them, as I would expect any nation that has them.

#95 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-18 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're disagreeing, then describing a situation with political constraints that make it impossible.

The only civilization in history to achieve anything like total war were the mongols under ghengis. That makes it the exception, not the rule.

#105 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 02:37 PM | Reply

- Nobody with any humanity at all finds joy in killing non combatants.

Vlad is on Line 2 for you.....

#106 | Posted by Corky at 2024-09-18 02:38 PM | Reply

104 Cambodia and Vietnam are still finding pagers with micro-explosives inside them?
And Agent Orange / dioxin is pertinent to this thread because the IDF uses it to defoliate the jungles of Gaza and Southern Lebanon?

#107 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:41 PM | Reply

They went after hezbollah. Terrorists. And anyone directly associated with terrorist.
They were not phones. They were pagers used exclusively by hezbollah. terrorists. In a war on terror it's never a good idea to pal around with terrorists.
And them exploding in civilian areas would still be less collateral damage than bombing Lebanon into rubble. With 500 pounders. All bombs cause casualties.
"If Hamas or Hezbollah did this, you'd be freaking the hell out."
Well they are terrorists so I am glad they did not think of it first. You know that they would have if they could have.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy

Hezbollah is a terrorist group but also a political party. You are purposefully choosing to ignore this. Likud has been called terrorist as well. Your line of reasoning suggest Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas can do this to Israel regardless of civilian casualties, and it's perfectly okay.

"And them exploding in civilian areas would still be less collateral damage than bombing Lebanon into rubble."

Yes, and BOTH would be violations of international law. Again, how hard is this to understand?

#108 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 02:46 PM | Reply

#97 | Posted by oneironaut

I get it, dummy.

Sycophant: "No one should be committing terrorist acts and being indifferent to civilian casualties."
OneRat: "You love Hamas!"

Your racism is showing.

#109 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 02:48 PM | Reply

When was the last time indiscriminately setting off explosions in public spaces was considered anything other than an act of terrorism?

#101 | Posted by jpw

Anytime Israel does it according to many people apparently.

#110 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 02:49 PM | Reply

104
Given 97, I assume you're in on the joke.

#111 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:54 PM | Reply

I mean give 92 ... .

#112 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:55 PM | Reply

They were pagers used exclusively by hezbollah.
-donnerboy.

How do we know this?

Because Israel said so?

#113 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-18 03:04 PM | Reply

"Nobody with any humanity at all finds joy in killing non combatants"

Thank you Captain Obvious.

#114 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Because Israel said so?

#113 | POSTED BY ONEIRONAUT

American sources.

#115 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:08 PM | Reply

They were pagers used exclusively by hezbollah.
-donnerboy.
How do we know this?
Because Israel said so?

#113 | Posted by oneironaut

----. I hate agreeing with you but this...

Those pagers were used by literally anyone even remotely associated with Hezbollah...which is basically everyone.

It included people like medics and doctors. They even killed the 9 year old daughter of a Lebanon elected official.

And today they exploded walkie-talkies. Guess who uses those quite a bit? AMBULANCE DRIVERS

The Lebanese military had to remotely detonate at least one walkie talkie from an ambulance driver that didn't go off.

They blew up one inside a damn funeral procession, markets, shops, homes. They started fires. They injured random civilians.

This is literal terrorism.

#116 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 03:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Hezbollah is a terrorist group but also a political party."

The Taliban also call themselves a "political party".

ISIS considers themselves a "political party".

Being a part of a designated terrorist organization (because of your documented acts of terror) and then claiming you are a political party does not magically give you some kind of immunity.

#117 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Those pagers were used by literally anyone even remotely associated with Hezbollah...which is basically everyone.

Not true. They were purchased by hezbolla and delivered to hezbolla.

...

DEVICES BOUGHT FIVE MONTHS AGO

The hand-held radios were purchased by Hezbollah five months ago, around the same time as the pagers, a security source said.

Israel's spy agency Mossad, which has a long history of sophisticated operations on foreign soil, planted explosives inside pagers imported by Hezbollah months before Tuesday's detonations, a senior Lebanese security source and another source told Reuters.

"Guess who uses those quite a bit? AMBULANCE DRIVERS"

Ambulance drivers that take instructions from Hezbollah. Apparently.

#118 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So why are the US and Israel NOT considered "state sponsors of terrorism"?

They both obviously do it. It would seem only little countries with few friends and non state actors get called "terrorists".

It's just another way to rationalize Double Standards and impunity.

#119 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 03:24 PM | Reply

"Hezbollah is a terrorist group but also a political party."
The Taliban also call themselves a "political party".
ISIS considers themselves a "political party".
Being a part of a designated terrorist organization (because of your documented acts of terror) and then claiming you are a political party does not magically give you some kind of immunity.

#117 | Posted by donnerboy

Hezbollah literally has 18 members in the Parliament. One of those member's 9 year old daughter died from the exploding pager.

And they aren't even at war.

They have immunity from these types of attacks. There are international laws. How is this so difficult for you to understand?

Oh I know. They aren't people to you. Just admit it. You just call ALL OF THEM terrorists so they don't count as human beings to you. And anyone associated with them or even in proximity is no longer count as human.

#120 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 03:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#118 Like I said before, newsworthy but ignored by the willfully obtuse.
At this point, you're wasting your breath, and my phone's out of gas.

Check ya later.

#121 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 03:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How do we know this?
Because Israel said so?

#113 | Posted by oneironaut

----. I hate agreeing with you but this...

...

You should.

I am not denying it was a major attack and that people were killed and injured.

How do you know who was killed and injured? And how many? Let me guess. Videos and images from inside Lebanon. Guess who is providing those videos and images and stories to you. How many were actually noncombatants? Some obviously were not. But how many? And how do you know that?

The first casualty in any war is the truth.

#122 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:32 PM | Reply

Ambulance drivers that take instructions from Hezbollah. Apparently.

#118 | Posted by donnerboy

No idiot. They take orders based on who is injured and get them from emergency services.

They use whatever walkie talkie is given to them.

How are you this dumb?

Did you seriously just suggest ambulance drivers deserve to die because Hezbollah was the one who provided EMERGENCY SERVICES WORKERS with walkie talkies?

What the ---- is wrong with you?

#123 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 03:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Videos and images from inside Lebanon.
#122 | Posted by donnerboy

Yes, we literally have the videos of these things going off in funerals, stores, markets, and ------- hospital services.

WTF is wrong with you? Seriously?

#124 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 03:33 PM | Reply

Once anyone is declared a terrorist,..they stop being Human.

Taken to it's logical conclusion this means Israel HAS NO RIGHT TO EXIST AND THEY AREN'T HUMAN.

Kinda looks a little Stupid when you think it through.

Which most people don't seem to.

All this is a recipe for endless Wars of Annihilation.

Coming soon.

#125 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 03:36 PM | Reply

WTF is wrong with you? Seriously?

Blind allegiance to Israel.

#126 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-18 03:39 PM | Reply

Why is that such a common malady?

So many otherwise normal people just Worship the Zionist Entity.

Weird.

And Dangerous, as Hell.

#127 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 03:41 PM | Reply

Oh I know. They aren't people to you. Just admit it. You just call ALL OF THEM terrorists so they don't count as human beings to you. And anyone associated with them or even in proximity is no longer count as human.

#120 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Humans can also be terrorists.

Anyone associated with terrorists are risking their lives. They always were. And now it's painfully obvious isn't it? Maybe they will reconsider associating and supporting terrorist organizations?

And. You are wrong. I don't want any of them to die. I wish they would change their policy and try to work with Israel instead of trying to obliterate them. I would rather not hear of all the death and destruction in that part of the world. I would rather they all live I peace and sing kumbaya and have concerts and dance together. In peace.

But obviously they will not. They still insist on being terrorists. Apparently. They shoot rockets daily into Israel terrorizing them and threatening and provoking them.

And obviously Israel is not going to get "obliterated" or threatened and terrorized that easily.

Get Hezbollah to change their declared policy and negotiate diplomatically instead of with rockets and bombs. And I bet Israel will stop figuring out ways to kill them back or kill them even more.

And then if Israel doesn't stop killing them and negotiate like a civilized nation then you may have a case against them. And me too if I still support them.

#128 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 03:54 PM | Reply

Yes, we literally have the videos of these things going off in funerals, stores, markets, and ------- hospital services.

WTF is wrong with you? Seriously?

#124 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

They were provided to you by hezbollah. With no verification by independent neutral sources. Do you understand what that means?

Trying to make you understand war propaganda is wrong?

Well ok then. Figure it out yourself.

Wring your hands and cry foul! Whine about how unfair war is in one hand and crap in the other and see how many lives you can save.

Meanwhile Hamas is still holding 7 Americans hostage.

#129 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 04:02 PM | Reply

Did you seriously just suggest ambulance drivers deserve to die because Hezbollah was the one who provided EMERGENCY SERVICES WORKERS with walkie talkies?

If you took equipment from ISIS after we found out they just killed 3000 Americans (and they were bombing us daily after that) do you really think I should be upset if you die because it exploded on you and killed you?

WTF is wrong with you bro.

#130 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 04:11 PM | Reply

They were provided to you by hezbollah.

Donner.

At some point you'll have to stop your black and white analysis of events and start looking at the grey tones.

#131 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-18 04:13 PM | Reply

#128 | Posted by donnerboy

Just say it: If they are part of an organization called Terrorists OR they are anywhere near people who are part of that organization, they are NO LONGER considered Human and can be killed.

Israel literally signed the "Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices" which prohibits using these types of devices against ANYONE, especially civilians and enemy combatants not directly engaged in combat at the time.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HEZBOLLAH DOES. ISRAEL CAN'T DO THESE TYPES OF TERRORIST ATTACKS BACK.

Russia gets attacked for bombing civilians but they call the Ukrainians terrorists.

You want to invade? Fine.
You want to strike military targets? Go for it.

But YOU CAN'T BLOW UP PAGERS AND WALKIE TALKIES THAT YOU PACKED WITH EXPLOSIVES especially WHEN THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE IN THE HANDS OF NON-COMBATANTS, IN THE VICINITY OF NON-COMBATANTS, OR IN THE HANDS OF POTENTIAL COMBATANTS NOT DIRECTLY ON THE BATTLEFIELD

Could Iran, Hezbollah or Hamas do this to the Israeli Knesset?
Could Democrats do this to Republicans over J6?
Could Republicans do this to Democrats over BLM protests?

You would call these terrorist attacks. But if Israel does it, it's a triumph for you.

I'm literally out of crayons trying to explain these super basic principles to you.

#132 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-18 04:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Pagers-Reuters-small

LOL!

#133 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-18 04:15 PM | Reply

You should post that on more threads.

#134 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-18 04:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Russia gets attacked for bombing civilians but they call the Ukrainians terrorists."

You do know what's really going on in Ukraine right? Russia is in the wrong no matter what they say now. The Russians invaded a sovereign nation and are bombing civilian targets directly. Not even close to the same thing. What Russians say matter as much to me as what Hezbolla or Hamas says.

"You want to invade? Fine."

They invaded Gaza and have been criticized for how they did it almost every day. And 10s of thousands have died. Gaza is in ruins. So not so fine.

"YOU CAN'T BLOW UP PAGERS AND WALKIE TALKIES THAT YOU PACKED WITH EXPLOSIVES especially WHEN THEY ARE LIKELY TO BE IN THE HANDS OF NON-COMBATANTS, IN THE VICINITY OF NON-COMBATANTS, OR IN THE HANDS OF POTENTIAL COMBATANTS NOT DIRECTLY ON THE BATTLEFIELD"

Pretty sure that's not a rule. All of Lebanon is a battlefield. Especially if Israel is forced to attack it with tanks and bombs. Like Gaza became a battlefield.

Once again. Those pagers and walkie talkies were purchased by terrorists for terrorists. And obviously you can blow them up. Israel just did. Apparently.
...

I'm literally out of crayons trying to explain these super basic principles to you.

#132 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

World leaders are waiting anxiously for your sage advice on how to combat terrorism and terrorists who are attacking you daily on your doorsteps and declare openly that they will kill every one of you. No matter what you say or do.

#135 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-18 05:00 PM | Reply

World leaders are waiting anxiously for your sage advice on how to combat terrorism and terrorists

Which terrorists do you speak of?

Who gets to decide who's a terrorist and who's a freedom fighter.

You should smoke a couple joints and give it some thought.

#136 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-18 05:13 PM | Reply

Israel knew what they signed up for when they Did the Nakba.

Muslims don't turn the other cheek. Frankly, Jews don't either.

If Israel wanted peace they could have Behaved like Human Beings.

Bought the Land instead of killing for it. Upheld international law instead of slaughtering and usurping for 80 years.

They Sowed the Wind and will Reap the Whirlwind.

Now they just hope America will help them... Finish It.

Cuz' they have painted themselves into a corner that gives them no other way to resolve this.

I hope If Anyone gets Erased..... It's Them.

#137 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-18 05:17 PM | Reply

Damn I actually wish North Korea would do something interesting just to see what propaganda the effete account brings to the table.

#138 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-18 08:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#97 Oneironaut, this tactic seems to be far more judicious than trying to bomb the same targets conventionally. I have absolutely no problem with it. It likely saved many civilian lives.
Hezbollah purposely rained rockets on Druze children playing soccer.
That's how they roll.
The Israelis have the moral high ground in this war. It's objectively so.
#99 | Posted by Karabekian at 2024-09-18 02:07 PM

You mean the those people who's entire community refused to meet Netanyahu for a photo op? Those victims?

Hezbullah denies the attack on the children.

Ironically, that same day IDF murdered 30 children bombing a school in Gaza.

I always harken back to the days of white phosphorous raining on the children.

Israel knowingly and deliberately target children.

Witnesses describe the pagers exploding within 30 seconds after receiving a call.

Two children were murdered, thousands of others wounded.

You must be smoking high ground to imagine Israel wants anything less than to systematically kill off every Arab child they can.

#139 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-09-19 12:33 AM | Reply

139. Israel's adversaries in the region have vowed to completely wipe them off the map. Full blown Nazi like genocide.

" You must be smoking high ground to imagine Israel wants anything less than to systematically kill off every Arab child they can.

#139 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT AT 2024-09-19 12:33 AM | FLAG: "

Yet 4 Arabic countries signed onto the Abraham Accords. No way those countries do that if any kind of evidence supports your claim.

#140 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-09-19 01:13 AM | Reply

Yet 4 Arabic countries signed onto the Abraham Accords.

Yeah... big powerhouses like Sudan.

#141 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-09-19 01:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Now do the UAE.

#142 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-09-19 01:26 AM | Reply

Ok, and big powerhouses like the UAE.

#143 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-09-19 01:30 AM | Reply

You know what Arabic countries didn't sign onto the Abraham Accords? Any that had a border with Israel.

#144 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-09-19 01:36 AM | Reply

Now you are moving the goalposts. NO Arabic majority would sign on if "I srael wants anything less than to systematically kill off every Arab child they can.". And if it wasn't evident then but is evident now, all 4 of those countries would back out immediately.

#145 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-09-19 01:52 AM | Reply

#140

The antisemites own this narrative. 500 years ago, there were Jewish communities across southwest Asia. Now there is one. The Muslim countries-I don't call them Arab countries because not all of them are-have extirpated the Jewish populations.

That's never brought up. Nor is the fact that goal of Hamas, Hezbollah, and other Palestinian groups is explicitly to extirpate that last remaining Jewish community.

Now it's "genocide" when the Jews refuse to roll over and die.

#146 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-09-19 01:58 AM | Reply

NO Arabic majority would sign on

Um, you think there was some kind of referendum? Do you know how these Arab countries are run?

#147 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-09-19 02:00 AM | Reply

Israel could negotiate. They could address Arab grievances. They could show some trace of acknowledgement of the facts on the ground.

No Way they will ever do it.

It's too easy to refuse to Define their borders, to continuously expand and create new "Settlements", and to Usurp Everything around them, like Swine.

The US has been completely Compromised by Israel, Morally.

Murder seems to mean something completely different if it's the IDF or Mossad doing it.

It becomes Something Righteous. No Big Deal, Mowing the Grass.

Land Theft becomes "Improvement of the Nation". Apartheid becomes "Security and Public Safety".

Only Jews are Deemed worthy of Self Determination by Codified Law in Israel.

Think about that? They won't Define their National Borders but take the Trouble to pass Actual Legislation that makes only Jews Worthy of Self Determination in the Israeli State.

How ------ Up is That?

#148 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-19 02:05 AM | Reply

Not as ------ up as Russia thinking they own Ukraine.

#149 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-09-19 02:23 AM | Reply

#149. Not Ukraine, Crimea and the Donbass.

The Ukrainians don't want the People there. They want to Ethnically Cleanse those Regions and keep the Real Estate.

The Russians actually Want the People. They consider them Full Citizens of the Russian Federation.

The Ukrainians were sending Nazi Militias to Shell and Attack the Donbass.

Russia stopped it. The Locals wanted to Join Russia, Referenda were held.

The people of the Crimea and Donbass voted overwhelmingly to become Oblasts within the Russian Federation.

NATO saw the most Economically Vital Part of Ukraine Slip Away.

The Rest is History.

#150 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-19 02:42 AM | Reply

I have for most of my life been on Israel's side,
in having the right to defend itself. I still say any
country (Ukraine, Effete) has the right to defend itself.
But lately under BiBi, Israel is walking a very very close
line towards becoming a Fascist State. Indeed, I think
at times in this conflict, they have crossed over that line.

Be careful Israel. You used to be on the Right Side of history
and were respected the world over for your opposition to
Authoritarian and Fascist States. But your Middle East views
have blinded you into becoming that which you once had loathed.

A state that 'cannot live with another people' cannot be other,
than Authoritarian and Fascist.

#151 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-09-19 07:00 AM | Reply

ISIS considers themselves a "political party".

So does the GOP.

#152 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-09-19 07:44 AM | Reply

A brilliant, albeit an indiscriminate maneuver consistent with the lack of concern for the lives of noncombatants shown by the IDF in Gaza.

#153 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2024-09-19 10:28 AM | Reply

Who gets to decide who's a terrorist and who's a freedom fighter.

You should smoke a couple joints and give it some thought.

#136 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Done. It did not change a thing. Hezbollah are still designated as terrorists.

In the United States, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Attorney General and the Secretary of the Treasury, has the authority to designate foreign individuals or entities as terrorists. The State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism monitors the activities of terrorist groups around the world to identify potential targets for designation.

It has been said that "what one person considers a terrorist, another may consider a freedom fighter".

Civilized countries decide which entities are acting like terrorists. My country decides who is terrorizing us.

I believe that Hezbollah are terrorists because the leaders of my country has declared that they are and I still believe in my country. And 60 other countries also believe my country. Right or wrong I am on my country's side. I will criticized my country for the dumb things my leaders do but in the end I will still support it. But in this case I believe they are correct. Would you like a list of all their many terrorist activities? (Google will happily provide.) [one that stands out to me is the U.S. embassy bombing in 1983 killing 305 French and American troops. ]

The US State Department designated Hizballah as a foreign terrorist organization in October 1997. More than 60 other countries and organizations, including the EU, the Arab League, and the Gulf Cooperation Council, have also designated Hizballah"either in part or in its entirety"as a terrorist group.

Maybe you should google all their terrorist activities and smoke a joint and think about it.

#154 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 11:05 AM | Reply

Donnerboy - Why did the Johnson administration want the USS Liberty to sink losing all hands?

Does it have anything to do with nuclear bombs in air on route to Cairo at the time?

You already follow an AI, or a fascist or a traitor and not realize it.

#155 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-09-19 12:39 PM | Reply

You already follow an AI, or a fascist or a traitor and not realize it.

#155 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

I am not sure what that, insulting me or my "Good Guy AI", has to do with hezbollah being designated as a terrorist organization by America and 60 countries.

#156 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 01:06 PM | Reply

#154 | Posted by donnerboy

Why is Hezbollah considered a terrorist organization?

#157 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-09-19 02:14 PM | Reply

Re 157

Because it meets the definition of a terrorist organization.

#158 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 02:27 PM | Reply

Why is Hezbollah considered a terrorist organization?
#157 | Posted by Sycophant

If you actually care, here's a beginner list: Alleged suicide attacks by HezBallzOff en.wikipedia.org

You'll note that Americans figure prominently on that list of targets, in the event that slaughtered Americans matters to you at all.

#159 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-19 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You'll note that Americans figure prominently on that list of targets, in the event that slaughtered Americans matters to you at all.
#159 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-19 03:40 PM

Sacrificing Liberty - A USS Liberty Documentary

Johnson was a traitor.

#160 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-09-19 04:05 PM | Reply

Sacrificing Liberty - A USS Liberty Documentary
Johnson was a traitor.
#160 | Posted by redlightrobot

You're just jealous!

#161 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-19 04:34 PM | Reply

Johnson was a traitor.

#160 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

Perhaps. And a worthy discussion.

But it doesn't do anything to justify hezbollah's long list of terror activities.

Including the bombing of the marine barracks in Lebanon which killed 305 French and American troops.

The Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon were bombed by Hezbollah on October 23, 1983. The attack killed 241 U.S. military personnel, 58 French paratroopers, and six Lebanese civilian

#162 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 04:56 PM | Reply

#84 slap fight

#163 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-09-19 05:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon were bombed by Hezbollah on October 23, 1983. The attack killed 241 U.S. military personnel, 58 French paratroopers, and six Lebanese civilian
#162 | Posted by donnerboy

To top it off, they were there as peacekeepers to protect civilians during the Lebanese civil war.

Which is why the US will never again volunteer its forces for that purpose in that part of the world, no matter how much the pro-Hamas peeps claim it's our responsibility; only to turn around and make excuses for the terrorists who then murder our troops in cold blood.

#164 | Posted by censored at 2024-09-19 05:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Who gets to decide who's a..."

You're right Clown... who gets to decide anything. I'mma head out and go run some people over and maybe hit up a bank or two. I mean, who gets to decide those aren't fine things to do? Everyone should just be able to do whatever they want whenever they want... who gets to decide we shouldn't be able to.

What a ridiculous f'n statement.

#165 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-09-19 05:23 PM | Reply

Don't worry, stupid.

I didn't expect you to understand.

#166 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:25 PM | Reply

Americans considered the Vietcong, the enemy.

The Vietnamese considered the Vietcong to be liberators and freedom fighters.

Same situation

Again, I don't expect you to understand.

You've proven numerous times you're an idiot.

#167 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:27 PM | Reply

The Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon were bombed by Hezbollah on October 23, 1983. The attack killed 241 U.S. military personnel, 58 French paratroopers, and six Lebanese civilian
#162 | Posted by donnerboy

Perhaps we shouldn't have had a military barracks in Lebanon.

Womp womp.

#168 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:29 PM | Reply

We literally invaded Iraq for no reason and I'm sure you idiots can't see what's wrong with that.

#169 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:30 PM | Reply

We get it Clown, Hezbollah has plenty of fine people in it.

#170 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-09-19 05:37 PM | Reply

The bombing of the marine barracks was only one incident and not the decisive factor but just added to the long list.

Americans considered the Vietcong, the enemy.

The Vietnamese considered the Vietcong to be liberators and freedom fighters.

Same situation

Not the same. Not even close.

Hezbollah is designated as a terror organization because of ALL their terrorist activities. Not just one incident.

...

You've proven numerous times you're an idiot.

#167 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

An idiot is someone who gives aid and comfort to and feels sorry for the very terrorists that who would happily torture and kill them given half a chance.

#171 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 05:45 PM | Reply

Womp womp.

#168 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

All I have to say to that is GFY.

#172 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 05:47 PM | Reply

Who could have thought moving millions of Europeans to the area now known as Israel would create problems.

#173 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:49 PM | Reply

We get it Clown, Hezbollah has plenty of fine people in it.
#170 | POSTED BY KWRX25

They do.

I know. Mind blowing.

The world isn't black and white.

This situations isn't good vs evil.

But that's all your limited intelligence will allow you to see.

#174 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:51 PM | Reply

Hezbollah is designated as a terror organization

The Vietcong wasn't?

How did we sell the war?

Let's go kill those people over there fighting for their freedom?

Somehow I just don't see it.

#175 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:53 PM | Reply

The Vietcong wasn't?

How did we sell the war?

Different war different times.

Only relevant in that American leaders can make mistakes.

You cannot say that because America made a big mistake in Vietnam .. which we all pretty much admit now though many of us at the time already knew (and we helped that country recover from the mistakes we made) that everything we do now is the result of a corrupt action or a mistake. Or as I think you are suggesting an act of terror.

Well obviously YOU can. But that doesn't make it true.

The United States agreed to provide $3.3 billion over five years to help rebuild Vietnam's infrastructure in the Paris Peace Accords ...

From 1993 to 2004, the United States pledged $29 billion in ODA to Vietnam, with about $14 billion disbursed.

The United States and Vietnam have a strong economic partnership, with the United States as Vietnam's largest export destination. In 2022, trade between the two countries was $114.6 billion.

American veterans and the U.S. government have helped clear unexploded land mines and other weaponry left over from the war.

The United States, along with other countries, helped resettle refugees fleeing the war in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.

Unlike Lebanon or its Arab neighbors Americans are quite welcome in Vietnam now.

Vietnamese people are very friendly to the tourists and expats. There are alot of American veterans going back to Vietnam to revisit old battle fields, see the changes of Vietnam after many years.

#176 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:11 PM | Reply

The Vietnamese considered the Vietcong to be liberators and freedom fighters.

#167 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

What happened to the Vietnamese that did not consider the Vietcong to be liberators and freedom fighters?

Rhetorical question of course, they were murdered by the Vietcong.

#177 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-19 06:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Didn't mean to side track this thread into a whole conversation about Vietnam.

Regardless to say that everything isn't as black-and-white as it's being made out to be.

It's just lazy and easy to say they're all bad and we're all good.

#178 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:20 PM | Reply

What happened to the Palestinians that did not consider Hamas to be liberators and freedom fighters?

Rhetorical question of course, they were murdered by IDF.

#179 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:21 PM | Reply

It's just lazy and easy to say they're all bad and we're all good.

#178 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Especially if you don't bother to check.

Which you obviously haven't.

#180 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Oh man, who should I check with?

The family of the person who just had their leg blown off by Mossad?

Somehow, I doubt they'd share your enthusiasm that they're a terrorist.

#181 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:32 PM | Reply

It's just lazy and easy to say they're all bad and we're all good.

#178 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

And by the way I have never said that. And never would.

I am only saying that right here right now hezbollah is terrorist organization that has been designated a terrorist organization by over 60 countries.

And considering the documented history of Hezbollah I agree with those all country's assessments.

#182 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:36 PM | Reply

"Oh man, who should I check with?"

Well ok you could start with the family's of their victims.

Maybe start with the families of the marines who were killed in the marine barracks while on a peacekeeping mission.

That should keep you busy for a while.

#183 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:42 PM | Reply

Well ok you could start with the family's of their victims.

The victims of mossad? Somehow I doubt they're going to agree with you.

start with the families of the marines who were killed in the marine barracks while on a peacekeeping mission.

The event back in 1983? You justify current events based on what happened 40 years ago? Get over it.

If the Israelis could get over their need to keep the citizens of Gaza and West Bank separated and under their occupation, recent events wouldn't have transpired.

Holding on to decades old grudges isn't a solution.

#184 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:47 PM | Reply

"Didn't mean to side track this thread into a whole conversation about Vietnam."

Yes you did.

You might as well go ahead and list all of Americas mistakes and Israel's (like the USS Liberty) and get it over with while you are trying to prove that we (and the Israelis by the transitive property) are actually the terrorists here and not hezbollah.

#185 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:47 PM | Reply

"The event back in 1983? You justify current events based on what happened 40 years ago? Get over it."

Seriously? YOU brought up Vietnam for Christs sake. That was 49 years ago bro.

#186 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:50 PM | Reply

Only as an example about how propaganda can mislead you

#187 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:51 PM | Reply

Holding on to decades old grudges isn't a solution.

#184 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Sure! Tell that to hezbollah bro.

I dare you. Go over there and tell them that right now.

Before you go ... Where do you want your body shipped to?

#188 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 06:53 PM | Reply

Only as an example about how propaganda can mislead you

#187 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

You do seem to be a bit confused as to what is real and what isn't. As apparently 40-50% of us are these days.

So how exactly do you know that it isn't YOU that's being misled this time?

#189 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-09-19 07:03 PM | Reply

Tell that to hezbollah bro.
I dare you. Go over there and tell them that right now.
Before you go ... Where do you want your body shipped to?
#188 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

What argument are you trying to make here, that it's healthy to hold on to a decades old grudge?

I'm pretty sure anger is clouding your judgement.

#190 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 07:34 PM | Reply

how exactly do you know that it isn't YOU that's being misled this time?
#189 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I'm not dealing in absolutes. That's for sure.

I'm trying to see both sides of the picture.

What's the solution donner? You're okay with the chaos and mayhem unleashed by indiscriminately setting off thousands of bombs?

You're okay with the nonstop bombing still being carried out in Gaza?

You're okay with displacing people from their homes in the West Bank?

I'm not here to change your mind. That's not what the DR is for.

But I question your objectivity when you're bringing up 1983.

#191 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 07:43 PM | Reply

He's an Ex Gyrine...

What the Hell do you Expect? He takes those Deaths Personally. Espirit de Corps!

This is Understandable, perhaps in Context, even Laudable.

But thinking he is Unbiased is a Mistake. Thinking he sees "Enemies of the State",as Human Beings with a point to their Resistance, won't happen.

Maybe Donnerboy is even right as far as he goes.

But he's too Invested in the Status Quo and too Unquestioning of Authority. Too quick to swallow the lies of history without even realizing he's been Lied to.

A Good Soldier has to be a little Dumb.

Smart Soldiers become Jaded. Smart Soldiers often Kill themselves from Guilt about what they are Involved in...Moral Injury.

Aaron Bushnell thought it through. He did a Very Stupid thing...

But he Wasn't Dumb.

He was too Sensitive to be Part of a Terror Machine that Justifies it's Terror with Platitudes and Conventional Thinking.

Lies save Lives.

Sometimes the Truth...Kills.

#192 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-19 08:13 PM | Reply

#191 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

His point I believe, is that the team is the GOOD team and can do no wrong.

The team he is against is EVIL, there for its all justified.

While you and I are on opposite sides of the Israel-Muslim conflict, I do believe Israel was in the wrong here.

#193 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-19 08:19 PM | Reply


that it's healthy to hold on to a decades old grudge?
I'm pretty sure anger is clouding your judgement.

#190 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

What do you think is going on in Iran/Lebanon/Gaza?

#194 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-09-19 08:21 PM | Reply

Justified Anger. People Died. Lands were Stolen without Redress.

The Israeli State protects Criminal "Settlers" who kill and Burn out and destroy the improvements of ordinary people who just happen to be Inconvenient and in Possession of things these Usurping Bastards Want.

Israel itself is Imperialism Shoved down the unwilling Throats of innocent people.

The Whole Enterprise is Violence against the indigenous people because they were "In the Way". Made Far Worse by Ethnic Bigotry and a Master Race Delusion on the part of Ashkenazi Jews.

Muslims don't back down and they rarely Forgive Murder and Dispossession.

Who Would?...

The End Result is Perpetual War.

And, We Helped....

#195 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-19 09:07 PM | Reply

What do you think is going on in Iran/Lebanon/Gaza?

Depends. Those are two countries and an occupied territory getting incorporated into Israel as this nonstop bombing and killing campaign continues.

It's odd for you, a person fond of labeling others as "lumpers" to suddenly lump millions of people into one ideology.

As for Iran. It's a stark warning and example of what a conservative theocratic government can do to a once secular, liberal country.

It's what republicans want to do to America.

#196 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 09:29 PM | Reply

__________
... that it's healthy to hold on to a decades old grudge?

No, decades of grudges are un-healthy... but for Israel it's not about "grudges," it's been about survival since Day 1.

Because, as the founding leaders of Hamas declared in 1988 - and put in Hamas Covenant (charter) - it's about unabated religious Jihad / "Holy Struggle" for one side only - "Article 8: Jihad is its path, and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.":

|-------
Hamas has called on all Jews and Christians to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. "It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region..."

Hamas also rejected any prospect of peace or coexistence with the state of Israel. "Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time..."

Since its creation in December 1987, Hamas has invoked militant Islam to spearhead a Sunni movement committed to destroying Israel.

The Hamas Covenant was largely crafted by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, a quadriplegic and partially blind cleric who was the founder and spiritual leader of the militant militia in Gaza.

From the Hamas Covenant (1988, 2017):

"Palestine is the land of the Arab Palestinian people, from it they originate, to it they adhere and belong... Palestine is a land whose status has been elevated by Islam, a faith that holds it in high esteem, that breathes through it its spirit and just values and that lays the foundation for the doctrine of defending and protecting it. ...

Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras Al-Naqurah in the north to Umm Al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. ..."

Khaled Mashal, a leader in exile, reflected the traditional Hamas hardline position in 2012: "The state will come from resistance, not negotiation. Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation, and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel..."

{Recently "departed"} Ismail Haniyeh on Oct. 7, 2023 after Hamas attack on Israel: "We want to liberate our land, our holy sites, our Al-Aqsa mosque ... Al-Qassam Brigades made the enemy lose its balance ... with this grand and blessed incursion; with this epic presence of men who write history with their blood and their guns ... And we say to all countries, including our beloved Arab countries: you must know that this entity [Israel] ... is incapable of providing you with security or protection. All the normalization and recognition processes, all the agreements that have been signed [with Israel] can never put an end to this battle."

Hamas rejected 1993 Oslo Accords and deployed suicide bombers against Israeli civilian and military targets. In 2004, Israel assassinated Yassin in a missile strike. The Second Intifada ended in 2005, and Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza.

Islamic Republic of Iran has armed, trained and funded Hamas since the late 1980s, due to its stated ideology and common goal of destroying Israel. ...
-------|

en.wikipedia.org - Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched tens of thousands of rocket attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip. The attacks, condemned for targeting civilians, have been described as terrorism and are defined as war crimes.

Speaking of Iran, more than a week ago IDF Special Forces conducted ground operation in Masyaf, Syria, which destroyed a covert Iranian-built underground factory making medium-range precision missiles for Hezbollah in Lebanon.
__________

#197 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-09-20 03:26 AM | Reply

When people are Enemies, they're Enemies.

The Hezbollah aren't Sugar Coating it. Israel doesn't Either.

Israel wants Pushover Enemies.

Too Bad...

#198 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-09-20 03:41 AM | Reply

A fight for land fueled by cold calculation and religious idiocy.
On all sides.

#199 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2024-09-20 05:57 AM | Reply

__________
Overnight massive air raid destroyed over 150 Hezbollah rocket launchers and weapons depots with over 1,000 rockets in Southern Lebanon - usually, occasional raid destroys, at most, a few dozen rockets.

This, and recent destruction of Iranian missile factory in Syria, should significantly impact on ability of Hezbollah to strike Israel in next few months, thus "cooling off" potential hostilities.

In the West Bank, the vehicle loaded with weapons and explosives and carrying 3 terrorists, was subject of air strike, killing all three, including group leader Shadi Sami Zakarneh, responsible for masterminding and carrying out a number of attacks in northern Israel.
__________

#200 | Posted by CutiePie at 2024-09-20 07:12 AM | Reply

What happened to the Palestinians that did not consider Hamas to be liberators and freedom fighters?
Rhetorical question of course, they were murdered by IDF.

#179 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-09-19 06:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sort of. Not black & white right? If the clans wanted Hamas to be gone, Hamas would be gone.

#201 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-09-20 07:15 AM | Reply

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