I am aware this will be difficult for some atheists and far-left individuals as soon as they hear any sort of defense of Christians. I will repost something I wrote earlier on this subject.

Zed,

"We have this one poster who argues I should be terrified of Islam as a threat to Western Civilization."

Right now, atheists and Muslims may not see themselves as being in direct conflict. In Western politics, they may find themselves on the same side in opposition to traditional Christian and Jewish influence.

Just wait.

I think that alliance will become much harder to maintain as Islamic influence grows in Western institutions and communities.

How will atheist parents react if their children start coming home from school praising Islamic beliefs or bringing Islamic religious practices into their homes?

Think that can't happen?

At present, Islam is often far more assertive than modern Christianity about maintaining visible religious practices and seeking accommodations for them in public life.

Some of the people who currently regard Christianity as the greater religious threat, may eventually find themselves confronting a religious culture whose expectations are considerably less compatible and more objectionable to their own secular beliefs. Muslim values are stricter than what they are accustomed to.

Also, Christianity in America generally does not require public rituals performed several times a day that can affect everyone around them. Islam has practices that many Muslims regard as religious obligations, and American religious freedom laws can require governments and institutions to make reasonable accommodations for those practices.

Right now, secular people may be saying, "Why should I worry?"

Some of the same secular people who strongly defend Islamic religious accommodations today may eventually conclude that what they regarded as harmless accommodations was a Trojan horse.

Posted by BillJohnson at 2026-08-08 04:58 PM | Reply

Db,

"Makes me a good Christian."

No...it just makes me a Christian.

Db,

"Same way all of the pastors I've known"

How did you come to meet and know so many Pastors and their personal feelings?

Monson,

What do you think about what's happening in Dearborn?

Zed,

I don't see me and you as being at war.

We are sharing viewpoints.

There is a growing conflict in America just like is happening in other countries.

Long standing national identities are losing to aggressive Muslim tactics to setup their culture instead.

The reason I started this thread is to show an example of what is actually occuring here in America. This isn't hypothetical. Their anti-American beliefs are a genuine threat to the American way of life.

It's not about hating Islam.

It's about radical Islam hating me and you.

One,

"Melbourne Airport has revealed it has Unisex Toilets but Gender Segregated Islamic Prayer Rooms"

What's to stop other people from using those rooms for other purposes?

Maybe someone should use one for an ordinary snack break and challenge any rule reserving it exclusively for religious use.

If the authorities remove or arrest that person, it could create an interesting court case.

One,

It must feel a little strange for some people to feel threatened by a religion other than Christianity.

Pump,

"if a foreign Muslim leader came to America and walked into the halls of Congress and got a extended standing ovation from 95% of those assembled while being guaranteed by those assembled to continue receiving billions and billions of dollars of military aid in order to continue a genocide being committed halfway around the world, then I might start to be concerned about a Muslim takeover of the US"

You're looking at it all wrong.

When it affects your daily life or the life's of people you care about, you'll understand what I'm saying.

Db,

It's short sighted thinking disregarding long term consequences is what creates so many problems.

I'm thinking less and less of you the more you post.

I think you're a bunch of hot air.

Db,

"I'm about the only person here who asks you questions to let you try to explain yourself."

You're not the first.

Read if you want another perspective...

America needs to confront radical Islam as a political movement before it gains any more influence here.

The country should unite against anyone attempting to place Sharia above the Constitution.

We need to recognize it for what it is.

It is an enemy of the Constitution operating right here, right now.

It is an ideology fundamentally opposed to constitutional government and one that is gaining influence here at home, on American soil.

For the sake of our children and the country they will inherit, spread the word.

Get involved.

"Enough is enough."

Clown,

"That's what evangelicals and MAGA want to do with America."

You keep believing that nonsense.

Learn a little about the history of Christianity.

Christianity is one of the more progressive religions working for good on this planet. It is a living, dynamic faith that has continued to shape societies, challenge injustice, and change the way people think about human dignity for nearly two thousand years.

That doesn't mean Christians always live up to their teachings or beliefs. Obviously, they haven't.

But compare Christianity's capacity for reform with religious groups that still defend practices rooted in centuries old ideas about the treatment of women, minorities, and those who question the faith.

Seriously, read something about Christianity beyond the stereotypes.

Christians aren't perfect.

But they worship a Man who is.

Snoofy,

Nope...Nothing is above the Constitution.

Lee,

"If you're Arab, if you're Muslim, you are my brother and sister and countrymen."

Being fellow countrymen does not mean everyone else must accept having one group's religious practices broadcast into their homes.

Muslims began forming a community in Dearborn during the 1920s, and the "American Moslem Society" established its Dearborn mosque in 1938. The Society's current website claims that its outdoor loudspeakers began operating in 2004. Reporting, however, proves they were operating as early as 1979.

The mosque was broadcasting the Islamic call to prayer over outdoor loudspeakers five times a day beginning at 5:30 in the morning. Residents said it could be heard half a mile away.

That history illustrates the point of this thread. As they have grown in numbers and political influence, they have begun pushing their worship and culture onto everyone else. Private worship is a constitutional right. Broadcasting a religious declaration throughout the entire neighborhood forces nonbelievers to listen, whether they wish to or not.

Muslims have the same constitutional rights as Christians, Jews and everyone else. They do not have a special right to ignore noise laws or require an entire neighborhood to accommodate their prayer schedule. Neither does any other religion.

America should welcome people who want to become Americans while retaining their personal faith and heritage. But assimilation also means accepting that public life is governed by the Constitution and laws applied equally to everyone. Bringing your culture to America is one thing. But expecting everyone to submit to your religious practices is another.

We need to nip this in the bud now before they become politically entrenched in American society.

Other countries demonstrate how difficult such demands become to reverse once government officials are afraid or politically unwilling to say no.

The call to prayer is only one example of religious practices and demands being pushed beyond the Muslim community and imposed upon the public. Read this entire thread and follow the links for further examples and supporting information.

Db,

Huh????

North Korea?

Db,

"Jesus is irrelevant to you."

I see absolutely no reason to answer any of your questions since you've already judged me.

You're not interested in my opinions. You want me to defend myself.

Why do I need to defend myself to you?

Dan,

As a Christian, I accept that America has no state religion.

America is not governed by laws extracted from the Bible, the Quran, or any other religious book.

That works both ways.

My secular political views about America are not necessarily governed by my religious beliefs.

Christians do not get to impose biblical law on everyone else, and Muslims should not get to impose Sharia law on everyone else.

There are radical Islamist movements that openly advocate bringing Sharia into government and public life. That is what concerns me.

Muslims are free to practice their religion in their mosques, in their homes, and publicly, just as Christians are free to practice and express their faith. But religious freedom does not mean the right to impose religious law or religious requirements on everyone else. I'm not referring to simply letting people know your faith.

Christians have had generations in America for the boundaries between religion and government to be fought over, challenged in the courts, and defined. Living in a pluralistic society means coexisting with other religions and with people who have no religion at all.

Muslims in America have the same religious freedom, but they also have to accept the same constitutional limits. Some Muslims come from countries where Islam has a much greater role in government and public life. That doesn't carry over to America. Here, when religious demands cross constitutional boundaries, the courts will determine where those boundaries are.

When any religious group pushes beyond those limits and attempts to use government to impose its religious beliefs on others, the courts will remind them where those limits are.

My concern is that some Americans who are strongly anti-Christian and anti-Israel may become so eager to oppose Christians and Jews that they excuse or support demands from Islamic groups that they would never tolerate from Christians.

And one day they may realize that acquiescing to those demands was a big mistake.

Db,

"because like you, they also appear very angry about something"

Again...you have now decided I am angry.

If you read these threads, you'll see it the liberals who are the most angry.

I'm not usually angry.

Right now I'm not angry.

When I am angry it's more obvious.

Db,

"A complete no-brainer that any Christian would want to answer most willingly"

That's what concerns me.

It's the "no-brainer" part I worry about since that is what I see coming from you.

Not really thinking.

Dan,

"And there are radical Christian movements who believe husbands should be able to strike their wives, and every household should have only ONE vote: the man's. Frankly, neither will get any traction."

There are radical Christian groups that hold those beliefs and I oppose them. If Christians demanded that husbands be legally permitted to strike their wives or that women lose their individual voting rights, I would fight those demands just as vigorously. At present, however, it is highly unlikely that they will be petitioning the courts to have either belief legally recognized.

We don't protect constitutional rights by waiting until a movement has enough power to take them away. We proactively protect those rights by confronting unconstitutional demands while they are still developing and applying the same laws to every religion.

Pointing to Christian extremism does not answer concerns about Islamic extremism.

It confirms why every religious movement seeking power over other people must be opposed .

Dan,

"Christmas is a national holiday. Name a belief other than Christianity whose most sacred day is a National Holiday."

Christmas is a federal holiday, but that does not make Christianity the state religion or require anyone to worship. Christmas has also become a cultural holiday celebrated by many people who are not practicing Christians. Christians themselves are not required to attend church, put up a tree or exchange presents.

Likewise, Muslims are free to worship in America. My objection is more specific. When a religious message is amplified into surrounding homes and neighborhoods, it must obey the same noise laws governing everyone else. Hearing the call to prayer does not make someone a participant, but people should not be forced to hear amplified religious broadcasts that violate local ordinances.

Should a Christian church be permitted to broadcast its Sunday morning sermon over outdoor loudspeakers into surrounding homes? Of course not. The same standard should apply to a mosque.

"So you believe a woman should decide whether she gets an abortion?"

I have answered this before. Yes. I thought reversing Roe v Wade was a mistake. I believe abortion is morally wrong, but from a secular legal standpoint, the government should leave that decision to the woman rather than impose my moral beliefs upon her. She must make that decision and live with its consequences.

"Can you show us a single current instance of Muslims getting MORE constitutional rights than you? Please be specific."

Did you listen to the video attached to this thread?

No group possesses more rights than provided by the Constitution. The concern is officials who sometimes protect or enforce those rights unequally.

The current Dearborn video contains allegations of unequal treatment and an attempt to impose Sharia Law .

One documented Dearborn example is Bible Believers v Wayne County. At Dearborn's 2012 Arab International Festival, a hostile crowd threw objects at Christian speakers. Law enforcement responded by ordering the speakers to leave under threat, instead of protecting their constitutional right to free speech. The Sixth Circuit ruled that officials had violated the Christians First and Fourteenth Amendment rights by permitting a hostile crowd to silence them.

That is not an allegation from a video. It is an actual finding by a federal court.

"Treating minorities like crap is never a good idea."

Have I suggested that Muslims should be treated like crap?

Muslims do not need to abandon their faith or private traditions. Like every other religious group, however, they may need to modify public traditions that conflict with existing laws or the rights of their neighbors.

Living in a free country without an established religion means that every faith receives the same protection, no faith receives governmental preference, or the right to impose its religious practices upon the surrounding community.

Db,

"To whom should Americans show fealty, if anyone?"

The IRS....just kidding.

Db,

"To whom should North Koreans show fealty, if anyone?"

Kim Jong Un....not kidding.

Dinner time...done

Db,

"Why the outrage, if the call to worship is what gets under your skin?"

That's not an actual question.

There is nothing to say to that.

I may not respond to you for awhile.

Db,

To be honest, I think you're just a little bit over confident.

I could go but I won't.

Db,

In other words, we're done.

Db,

Typo..

I could go on but I won't.

Db,

"Just what's your problem anyway?"

People like you.

Let's not pursue this any further.

Db,

You actually sound like you're reaching to understand and communicate with me.

However, you mix your posts with insults and judgment calls.

Tomorrow, I can't see myself wanting to respond to anything from you.

You need to work on your shtick.

Snoofy,

If a child in Sunday School was being rude to the other kids, you can be sure they would be asked to leave.

Maybe that's the problem with liberals today.

Bad behavior has been tolerated for way too long.

Clown,

His insults were the least of my complaints about him.

He kept telling me how I felt or thought about things and he was always wrong. He even made judgement calls about my Christian identity.

He wasn't as smart about reading me as he thought he was. I think he was projecting a lot of his bias he has decided he knows about people.

That grew old. No...it grew boring.

There are posters here I have totally stopped communicating with and they totally stop communicating with me which is alright by me.

He can go that way as far as I'm concerned.

We'll just have to do without each other.

You never know. I'm a pretty easy person to get over stuff.

Redial,

"Is it not the same idea?"

Not exactly. Church bells are generally brief signals.

The call to prayer is a spoken declaration of Islamic belief broadcast over loudspeakers, sometimes several times each day.

Imagine Christian churches deciding to broadcast a comparable declaration over outdoor loudspeakers several times a day.

"God is greatest. I testify that Yahweh is the one true God. I testify that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. Come to prayer. Come to salvation. God is greatest. There is one God."

That is considerably different from the brief ringing of church bells.

Redial,

"I used to live next to a church and sometimes the bells would ring for a half hour."

Do they still?

Where I live about 30-40 years ago bells rang downtown.

They haven't in years.

Noise ordinances have gotten pretty strict.

Redial,

You are right.

They rang a long time.

Where I live there was more than 1 church ringing bells.

I think it was only on Sunday.

Not any more.

Pump,

"Just be a man and tune it out you ------- -------"

Americans? We are independent and most will not tolerate being put upon.

Has nothing to do with being a man.

It has to do with people work their tails off to buy a home and they want peace and quiet.

That's not unreasonable.

Dan,

"So should a Jew who just bought a house be able to tell the neighboring Christian Church NOT to ring its bells???"

I'm sure there's a lot more than one Jewish family being annoyed by it.

If a community has a problem with it, do something.

Most of them have probably gone silent by now.

People are quick to complain these days and many people have a sense of entitlement about every little thing.

Bells...I wouldn't want to want to hear it either in my home.

Dan,

"So should a Jew who just bought a house be able to tell the neighboring Christian Church NOT to ring its bells???"

They'd have to go through legal channels.

This is America.

From my experience, you never want to make requests from other neighbors.

It usually starts a neighbor conflict.

You have to go through legal channels and let law enforcement deal with it.

Dan,

"walking my dog today"

Do you pick up the doggy doody?

Dan,

I see people pick it up these days but never used to years ago.

People thought nothing of leaving piles in someone's yard.

Why are they picking it up now?

A city ordinance was passed.

Dan,

"Bill, if you understood math, you'd realize there are more people who have a problem with it who DON'T live in Dearborn, than have a problem with it who DO live in Dearborn."

Probably true.

Mathematically there are VASTLY more people not living in Dearborn than who do.

If you played the attached video to this thread, I suspect it's going to go viral now that the Pastor brought attention to the city.

The Pastor was very articulate and not out of line in his request.

Then in the video a citizen who had personal experience said he hopes the FBI and other federal agencies come into Dearborn and investigate law enforcement and the bias given towards Muslims and against everyone else.

That video was effective.

And like you said, there are a LOT more people not in Dearborn who are going to learn about the city and the Pastor and be convinced this is an actual concern America should think about.

Laura,

"You know if you're minding your own business in said community. You won't be bothered by the call to prayer that these mosques are airing"

Minding your own business works both ways.

You're saying I should not offend them and just mind my own business?

What else could you be implying?

Their rights are more important than mine?

They should want to not offend people around them.

Db,

"Lots of people seem to think Jesus spoke like the KJV."

I don't know who those people are.

No one I know believes that. It's understood to be a translation.

Besides, Christianity doesn't have an official language. And it certainly wouldn't be seventeenth-century English.

Snoofy,

*"Like most Evangelical Christians, Westboro Baptist Church exists to annoy people around them."*

Who even talks about Westboro anymore except a desperate troll with nothing of value to contribute?

Do you seriously think Westboro represents evangelical Christianity?

Eb,

When I look back at issues on which my views differed from prevailing opinions on this site, I often find that public policy eventually moves in my direction.

The border. Transgender issues. And now mail-in voting.

The USPS has now finalized a rule requiring states to provide a list identifying every voter scheduled to receive a mailed ballot and place unique tracking barcodes on both the outgoing and return envelopes.

The rule would apply nationwide to mailed ballots used in federal elections.

It originated with one of Trump's executive orders. The rule is currently blocked by federal injunctions, and the administration has asked the Supreme Court to allow it to take effect.

The rule would not turn every mail-in ballot into a traditional absentee ballot or require every voter to apply for one. However, it would require every mailed ballot to be part of an identified, voter-specific tracking system much closer to the way traditional absentee ballots are handled.

The system would provide better information for reconciling the number of ballots mailed and returned, tracking their progress and identifying ballots that were lost or otherwise unaccounted for.

It does not adopt everything I have advocated, but it moves substantially in that direction. The concerns I raised were not nearly as unreasonable as people claimed.

If the Supreme Court allows the rule to take effect, states will have only a small window in which to comply with the new requirements.

I hope they are already working on it.

I didn't bring up mail in ballots.

Someone else did.

Db,

You are a piece of work.

You throw sand in someone's face, call them names, tell them they're a bad person, and then ask, "why won't you play with me?"

"Because you are threw sand in my face and you behave badly."

Then you tell other kids, "don't play with him...he's a complete idiot"

So who exactly is the problem here??

Clown,

I'm sure I am.

Db,

"You should be able to tell us proudly how, as a Christian, you exhibit a better life than non-Christians, as a testament to your faith."

Ok...actually I can give you my testimony. But a much more summarized version.

I joined the Navy at 17 after dropping out of high school.

I was kicked out of Navy in 1975.

While I was in the Navy, my dad divorced my mom and remarried a woman with two young boys. I was a supreme disappointment to my dad. His new sons were perfect for him. His new wife's family wanted me to stay away because I'd been kicked out of the Navy.

I never saw my dad again in my 20s. He never met my wife or his grandchildren.

Actually, to be honest, I was the one who kept everyone apart .

He had never really been a father to me. As a child he mostly ignored me. I was an only child. Dad was in the Army and we moved every couple of years or so, four times in the middle of a school year.

Enough of that.

The point is, by the time I got out of the Navy, I felt pretty much rejected by my parents and the military.

I ended up in a very big city without a penny to my name.

A guy I had met offered to buy me a meal at a restaurant. We were sitting there talking and I was telling him I had nowhere to go and didn't know what I was going to do.

A church pastor overheard me.

He walked over to me, a complete stranger, and offered me a room in his home with him and his partner.

He was a pastor with MCC.

There was no ulterior motive. They helped me get a job at the bathhouse I've talked about before. Another friend later helped me get enrolled in college after I got my GED.

The gay life wasn't for me.

I liked men, but the life I saw around me seemed to revolve around everybody sleeping around. The gay men I knew cheated on their partners. I met lots of people. I was unusually tall and good looking. I had "friends."

But I was still lonely.

Then I met a guy from another state. Talked over the phone. Exchanged photos. He got a trailer, drove to where I was, loaded up my stuff and moved me to where I live now.

That turned out to be another blessing.

He was gay too. He eventually became a Mormon and moved to Utah. We've stayed in touch all these years, although we've never seen each other again.

I started college at my new residence (big city to smaller city) location and got a part-time job.

That's where I met my wife.

We became fast friends. We even went to gay bars together.

It was about a year before we slept together.

My first time with a girl.

WOW.

But she still wasn't a guy.

We got married.

After I got married, I stopped messing around with men and haven't since.

Yeah...I still miss it sometimes.

What can you do?

You appreciate what you have and go on.

My wife was a Christian. She had attended church as a child with her parents.

When she was eight months pregnant with our first child, she and I were crossing a busy street.

I had just about reached the curb on the other side when I heard a car screech.

I looked to my left and briefly saw a headlight fly past behind me. Then I saw my wife twirling through the air and landing on the other side of two lanes of traffic.

Sure would have been nice if God had made us walk a little faster.

Or if my wife had kept up with me.

But she was eight months pregnant and ready to deliver.

That's life.

We came through it, and actually we became even closer. I knew how much I loved her.

Tragedy can bring people closer together. The baby was fine.

(part 1)

(part 2)

We've now been married more than 40 years.

We're more in love than ever.

She loves me intensely. My heart hurts when I look at her. To think what I almost never had.

I have a life because of her.

And when I look back over all of it, God is so intertwined in my life that I can see He was always there somewhere, often working through people who appeared at exactly the time I needed them.

A pastor who overheard a lost kid talking in a restaurant.

A friend who helped me get into college.

Another man who packed up my belongings and moved me to another state.

And then my wife.

My career worked out too. I eventually went from being a high-school dropout who got kicked out of the Navy to teaching at a college. I taught accounting and network operating systems. I enjoyed teaching. It was one of the more rewarding things I ever did. God provided opportunities, but I had to do the work.

We bought and paid for a nice house.

Now I'm retired comfortably.

I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable.

You never know what's right around the corner.

A few months after retiring, I fell and messed up my hip. Now I walk with a cane.

Would have been nice if God had pointed out the icy sidewalk to me.

Being a Christian doesn't mean bad things won't happen to you. Sometimes the bad things are where you discover whether your faith is authentic.

Sometimes it's okay to get mad at God. That's because you still believe He's there and you just feel let down by Him. We are only human.

It's when you stop getting angry, stop talking to Him, and simply give up on God that you should be concerned.

Look at my life.

One other thing...

People have told me I denied my "true self."

You're gay. You should be out. You shouldn't be married to a woman.

But think about that.

I am living my true self.

My married life is my true self.

I'm living my values.

And one last thing.

Remember, back in the mid-70s I lived with that MCC pastor. I was young and still trying to figure out who I was and what I believed.

I asked him one day:

"Is being gay a sin?"

His answer has stayed with me all these years.

He said,

"It's a sin to live the wrong life."

That was his answer.

So, Db, that's my testimony.

I'm not saying I believe my life is better than non-Christians but I wouldn't want it any other way.

When I look back, I believe God was there.

He was always with me.

I believe He still is.