"I cannot understand why a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court, where he may be relieved of the persecution under which he suffers. One would think that such an innocent would race to the courthouse to present his case."

I cannot understand why the left hasn't figured out that these indictments and prosecutions are HELPING him solidify his base. His supporters believe he is being persecuted, and the longer he can keep the drama going the more they rally behind him. This election will be about turnout.

What an incredibly dumb argument.

Tell that the the NYT, Time Magazine, Guardian, BBC, NBC and all the polling professionals that have determined as such. Use your google.

For those who missed the original exchange, I was responding to #15, and I never said he shouldn't be prosecuted.

"I cannot understand why a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court, where he may be relieved of the persecution under which he suffers. One would think that such an innocent would race to the courthouse to present his case."
I cannot understand why the left hasn't figured out that these indictments and prosecutions are HELPING him solidify his base. His supporters believe he is being persecuted, and the longer he can keep the drama going the more they rally behind him. This election will be about turnout.

#45 What doesn't, the NYT article entitled "Trump Benefits from an Indictment Effect" or the Time article entitled, "How Criminal Charges Against Trump Could Perversely Boost his 2024 Campaign"?

Since so many of you chose to snip my post out of context, then use it to launch strawman and ad-hominem attacks, I'll waste some time responding. To anyone with reading comprehension, it was obvious that I was responding to a post questioning TRUMP's motivation, not expressing my personal opinion about whether he should be prosecuted, yet still most of you responded as if I was wearing a MAGA t-shirt. My original post was as follows:
#30 MIRANDA (#19 from CATDOG was quoted)
"I cannot understand why a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court, where he may be relieved of the persecution under which he suffers. One would think that such an innocent would race to the courthouse to present his case."
I cannot understand why the left hasn't figured out that these indictments and prosecutions are HELPING him solidify his base. His supporters believe he is being persecuted, and the longer he can keep the drama going the more they rally behind him. This election will be about turnout.

Select responses:

#35 SYCOPHANT - Even IF that's accurate, so what? We don't prosecute a criminal because it makes him more popular? Some crazy Republican logic there.
#37 NIXON -That is not a reason to not hold a criminal accountable for crimes.Period. 1. You prosecute people who have committed a crime. First and foremost. 2. From a political standpoint - and this is not a political witchhunt (see point #1) - there is a significant voting population out there that will not vote for Trump if he's found guilty.
#43 DONNERBOY -His supporters also believe that democrats eat babies in the basement of pizza parlors. I seriously don't think we should base any decisions on accountability and the rule of law on what Trumpy's supporters believe.
#52 JOE - Maybe "the left" just wants to hold an abject criminal POS accountable regardless of the political consequences. If only "the right" had an equal level of integrity.
#54 LAMPLIGHTER - From what I've seen, "the left" seems to understand that quite well. But does that mean that a person should not be prosecuted for alleged crimes?
#58 ONEIRONAUT - What should happen because of that, should his crimes go unpunished?
#45 SNOOFY -We understand that it's a cult. What should happen because of that, should his crimes go unpunished?
#72 TRUTHHURTS - This argument is dumb on several levels. First, it is not Dems or the Left that is prosecuting ------- (the sexual predator and fraud), but prosecutors, grand juries and the special council's office. Secondly, it is dumb to think that the above should not pursue criminal charges because that gives him a short term benefit.
#99 " GALTUESDAY - Because she is using Republican thinking, i.e., that if something is the right thing to do but it will make your opponent more popular, you put party above country and don't do it. Think, for example, the Republicans now saying no to the very border bill they asked for previously.
#101 SNOOFY - She knows why. If something is the right thing to do but it will make your opponent more popular, you put party above country and don't do it.

To all of the above, please link to where I suggested that Trump should not be prosecuted? And to those below, you are just being dicks.

#46 TRUTHHURTS - What an incredibly dumb argument.
#47 YAV -If you can't understand something then reexamine your premise.
#55 ANGRYDAD That's because you're an idiot.

Thank you Chuffy, for actually reading my original post and responding with reason:

"The left" understands this, which makes it even more important to prosecute. We all saw what happened in 2016, and we saw what happened on J6, and we see what's happening now. I've been arguing with people on "the right" for decades now, and it's always the same thing...they fall into a bunch of different camps, two of which are: nothing can shake their belief in magic, therefore, they have no problem living in a fantasy world regardless of objective reality/facts or, they are ultimately just cruel people who never grew beyond being a teenager - they allege to have morality, decency and lawandorder, but really, these things are just tools to bend the narrative to whatever twisted ideals they have bought into their whole lives. No point in arguing with either, they're going to support a rapist fraud to the end, simply because he appeases their madness. Nobody else will do that for them, so everyone else is persecuting them, poor widdwe victims always.

I disagree with your premise that the longer he keeps this up, the more they rally behind him. There are huge cracks in that foundation. His base is nuts, but the second tier (the cruel people) won't have any problem with someone else coming in who doesn't have all the baggage, should he wind up behind bars. Only the true believers will die on the hill for him.

#68 | Posted by chuffy at 2024-02-06 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like I said, this election is all about turnout. He isn't trying to gain new followers, just make sure the ones he already has stay angry enough to show up.

Like most MAGA apologists, Miranda thinks everything is about political strategy and can't even fathom doing something on principle. I'm willing to take my chances with insisting that an obvious criminal finally face the consequences for his presidency, and indeed his life, of malfeasance.

#131 | Posted by cbob at 2024-02-06 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wow, not sure how you extrapolated that from my post. You think you are inside my head specifically? You can't follow that I was explaining TRUMPS apparent political strategy, not my own? And that my reference to the LEFT that is not the prosecutors (which Truthy correctly points out are not "the left") I was talking about people on the left (like the OP) who "cannot understand why a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court".

Why is that so hard to follow?

#144 Thanks, I am rarely knee-jerk anything. I'm a pretty objective thinker and strive to help others understand opposing perspectives, that doesn't mean I share the perspective I am explaining. As a "both-sideser" I just end up pissing off both sides.

#145 "what makes you think the left hasn't figured this out?" The post I was responding to DIRECTLY said, "I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court......" I took that to mean exactly what it said, that he didn't understand why Trump was delaying. Did I misinterpret that? And I figured it was a fair assumption that if Catdog didn't understand there were probably many others on the left who didn't, so I decided to share my opinion, a viewpoint that is shared by many respected news outlets.

#147, I had my reply window open and posted #146 before I saw #147. Nope I didn't catch the sarcasm, though English IS my first language, I've been known to miss cues.

If you're not a political hack, it shouldn't matter. Justice matters. You being a formed police officer should know this. #149 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-02-06 09:50 PM | Reply | Flag:
WHAT shouldn't matter. Why do you think I don't believe justice matters?

I guess it would be too much to ask you to explain the context that makes you believe I don't think Trump should be prosecuted? I've literally NEVER posted anything in support of Trump. I rarely even READ threads about Trump, let alone participate in them. The man disgusts me so much I can't stand to think about him. Lately it is starting to look more likely he will actually get reelected and that scares me so I started paying more attention.

"But the articles you linked to didn't address the issue of "WHY a man so innocent of all charges chooses to delay his day in court......" did they? From what I can see they just addressed the fact of Trump's increased popularity with his base as more court cases are brought against him. #154 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-02-06 10:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Indeed you are correct but ignoring the context again. In that post (#48 with the links) I wasn't addressing the original question. I responding DIRECTLY to #46, in defense of my previous post. Did you miss that too? It went like this:

#46 TRUTHHURTS - What an incredibly dumb argument.

#48 MIRANDA7 -Tell that the the NYT, Time Magazine, Guardian, BBC, NBC and all the polling professionals that have determined as such. Use your google.

You may disagree with the argument that Trump Supporters believe he is being persecuted, and that the indictments and prosecutions are helping solidify his base, but can you really deny that the linked NYT and Time Magazine articles said essentially the same thing? Or do you think I just made up the whole idea all by myself to send a coded message in support of Trump?

Seriously, this is getting ridiculous explaining myself to people who believe they know me better than I know myself, trying to catch me in some sort of "gotcha" moment.

I've literally NEVER posted anything in support of Trump.

Maybe not, but your adherence to the Right wing narrative has been digitally recorded on this very august site. Hence, exhibit A.

There is no exhibit A, because I don't "adhere to the Right Wing Narrative either". I freely admit I am farther to the right than the far left majority here, but that barely gets me to the middle. Right wingers call me a flaming liberal. I don't most think folks here realize just how far from the center they are, talk about self-awareness.

I rarely even READ threads about Trump, let alone participate in them. Exhibit B.

Not seeing Exhibit B either. I get really weary of the absolute OBSESSION people here have with Trump. It is not cathartic for me to express hatred like it is for some of you, so I skip those conversations. Based on this one, I think I'll go back to that.

Lately it is starting to look more likely he will actually get reelected and that scares me so I started paying more attention.
#161 | POSTED BY MIRANDA7

The exact sort of context you should have provided initially. Like, WTF?! Have some more self-awareness.

My posts are too long already, do I need to start each one with a commentary of how much I hate Trump before I can begin so nobody gets the wrong idea? Include disclaimers and post my NPA voter registration card to prove I'm not a closet "Republican hack" or "Sock puppet" from so many years ago? That gets old and its stupid

No, I'm not ignoring the context. You started out saying one thing, switched to another and then came back to conflate the two.
I made one brief post then got slammed with 20 or so replies, so yeah, takes a little jumping around to answer those. I don't have a full time editor to smooth it all out and make it ready for the debate team here. Maybe if y'all just take what I say at face value and stop crawling up my ass looking for hidden messages we could just chill out and have an interesting conversation that isn't about me.

Wow, you totally misunderstood the points I was making. No one on the left disagrees that Trump is using the court cases to consolidate his base. No one on the left disagrees with the articles you've linked to, and that's the point: you are wrong to think the left hasn't figure this out:
Cool, I'm really glad to hear that. I've certainly talked to people on who are sure this is bringing him down to certain defeat. I wonder why the NYT and those other outlets bothered writing all those articles about it if everybody already knows. (Sincere question, not sarcasm) Who are THEY trying to convince?

I'm not trying to say I know you better than you know yourself. I am saying you are wrong in your assumptions about the left in this thread. Fair point. I should have been more precise and said "some on the left", but seriously, is it that triggering? Nobody seems to object when those types of generalizations are used about "the right" or any other groups.

I can't seem to find "the Left" that thinks the prosecutions aren't helping Cheeto Jeezus.

Well, Yav, when you (and others) told me my argument was really stupid, you didn't break it down, so I assumed you were talking about my whole argument, therefore DISAGREEING that the prosecutions were helping Trump, and basically proving my point So to clarify:

You DISAGREE with this part only:
I cannot understand why the left hasn't figured out that.....

But you AGREE with the rest of my "dumb argument":
That these indictments and prosecutions are HELPING him solidify his base
His supporters believe he is being persecuted, and
The longer he can keep the drama going the more they rally behind him.
This election will be about turnout.

Not sure how I could have known that based on the responses I got.

I get really weary of the absolute OBSESSION people here have with Trump. It is not cathartic for me to express hatred like it is for some of you, so I skip those conversations. Based on this one, I think I'll go back to that.

Obsession? Either you're a political hack, like I think you are, or you deeply have your head buried in the sand.
OMG Rusty, where have you been? For a while I counted the Trump threads. On a typical day there were 10-15 Trump threads and maybe 2 about Biden. Then I made a game of guessing how many posts a COMPLETELY unrelated, non-political thread would go before someone brought Trump in before it hit 10. If that isn't obsession, I don't know what is. It has slowed down a bit lately, which seems inverted.

Why are you so willfully ignorant of the dangers that reelecting Trump might entail? You're literally choosing ignorance I don't choose ignorance, I just have chosen to avoid him on DR, for reasons I explained. You are correct that I did, until recently, doubt he would win the general election. Recent events have changed my mind. Specifically the threat of third party candidates, Biden's actions on Israel/Palestine, and a couple other recent issues I won't bring up lest I start another round of arguments.

Either learn to be more breviloquent or provide the context that actually matters.
I'm probably too old to learn that, but I will look up the word and try. I can say I add excessive explanation, because when I don't I get picked apart over what I DID NOT include, but I suppose that is inevitable with this crowd. Leave a loose thread and they just have to try to set it on fire.

#176 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-02-06 11:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So... Should the Democrats stop prosecuting him, or what?"Inquiring minds want to know. . . .#187 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
Yes absolutely. But it would be helpful if the media took a more reserved approach, focus on more sobering, factual credible coverage. The over-the top gleeful punditry and focus on how the charges impact the election feeds the narrative that the prosecution is over-the-top and political.

Oops, that was "Yes Absolutely they should be prosecuting him", not Yes they should stop.

The context of why some here think you are more pro-Trump than you actually are may be because not wanting to think about him has led you to not wanting to post about him either? #178 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY I generally post when I think I have something to contribute, in terms of my personal experiences or a unique alternative viewpoint. Hating Trump isn't a unique viewpoint, and piling on with a "Hell Yeah" isnt much of a contribution. Maybe I'll just give that a try. Seems brevquiloquent. Watch for it.

I feel pretty confident that the Supremes will deny immunity.