#66 Alito lives in Alexandria, pretty much anybody who makes enough money to live that close to DC is political, and mostly Democrat. Check a "red blue" map.

The tweet was paraphrased, Alito was not quoted. There is a difference between someone saying, "The sign was 50 feet from a school bus stop" and "The sign was 50 feet from where children await the school bus in Jan 21". Frankly, the second version sounds too wierd to be verbatim. Did he actually say "Jan"? Does Jan 21 refer to when the kids were waiting for buses or when the argument took place? We're they simply referring to the regular bus stop (where kids await the bus when school is open)? Were they aware )at the time of the spat) that schools had not yet reopened?

Sounds like a petty distinction but it's also petty to call a man a liar based on a second hand paraphrasal of a second hand conversation.

#17 I agree with you that it is petty to debate school schedules. I'm not the one that raised that issue to dismiss his "excuse". Frankly, I don't think he needs an "excuse". Many people have flown flags inverted for many decades for many reasons, and each one of them has the right under the first amendment to do that, including the Alitos.

"Modern day equivalent of the confederate flag"? Is that why it has been historically been flown by Liberal war protestors? I would disagree with you that the American Flag in any configuration is owned by any group. The direct association with January 6th is curious to me. I looked at lots of images from January 6th, and about 99% of the American flags at those events are upright. The evidence more strongly supports making the right-side-up American flag the "symbol of insurrection". Are you ready to give away the American flag to MAGA because they were waving a bunch of them around on Jan 6? Because I'm not. Twitter doesn't get to decide what the American Flag means.

Maybe you can provide more photos of upside-down flags on January 6. I only found two. Many images, but of the same two flags. Hardly enough to cement it as certain symbol of "Stop the Steal" on January 17th when Mrs. Alito allegedly ran hers up the pole.

"No surprise to anyone that has studied the rationale for several of his recent rulings. The man is a certified bigot and a full on Trumper."

Hmmm, I read all the supreme court opinions. I haven't seen one where Alito expressed a bigoted or political rationale in any of the opinions he authored. Perhaps you could provide a quote or a link?

#63 very simply, you are creating a false binary and a whole lot of assumptions and false equivalences that I don't buy into. Not much point in debating those. You already believe you can read the minds of others and assign them motivations,(including me) so We will just have to agree to disagree.

#85 No doubt Election Deniers have tried to claim the upside down flag, but should we just let them keep it? I don't think so.

I don't know why Mrs Alito hung that flag upside down, and she has no obligation to explain. I think it's ironic that the liberal set does not believe it is possible that this woman has the agency to make her own decisions.

And if Mr. Alito hung it, that is his LEGAL right to do so so also. Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion, but he has broken no laws. The first amendment does not exempt Supreme Court Justices from its protection.

I also agree that what a Supreme Court Justice does publicly and privately matters. In a perfect world we would like to view them as perfectly impartial godlike arbiters of justice. But they are humans and as such they DO have personal opnions. I don't see much point in demanding they keep those super dooper secret, Their oath requires them to set aside their personal opinions when engaged in official business,, and formulate their judicial opinions based on the law and Constitution.

You're an idiot. A mouth-breathing, pin-headed dumbass that logs on here 18 hours a day to spread manure over a concrete field. You're a clown and a loser and nobody cares what you think.

#95 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-05-17 11:15 PM | Reply

#95 Obviously you care what I think because you stalk me like a 13 year old boy pulling ponytails and comment on every post. I guess you can't miss an opportunity to expand your middle school slam book skills.

The tweet is from Shannon Bream, the Fox News reporter who interviewed Alito so he could address the NYT article, and you think she is misquoting him or misrepresenting what he said? I know accusing the media for some kind of bias is your go-to schtick, but it laughably ironic in this case.

#108 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-05-18 07:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

Mr. Alito can speak for himself, and he did, in an email to the NYT, I think. He didn't mention "children waiting at the bus stop in Jan 21". Shannon Bream isn't miquoting him, because she didn't quote him. Did she misrepresent what he said? Possibly. It was roughly paraphrased. It was a series of rapid fire tweets, not an article. Apparently Shannon is a friend of the family and yes, there is bias here on her part. I think she was trying to help him out, but it is an important distinction they are her words, not necessarily his. He didn't say anything about "children waiting at the bus stop in Jan 21" in his email.

Nevertheless, it is a bit irrelevant, kids were expected to return to school soon. Many people would be upset about a sign that said F&*K Biden near a children's busstop, regardless of whether school is in session.

Legally perhaps, but ethically not so much:

"Judicial experts said in interviews that the flag was a clear violation of ethics rules, which seek to avoid even the appearance of bias, and could sow doubt about Justice Alito's impartiality in cases related to the election and the Capitol riot."

#110 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-05-18 07:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

That is my point. LEGALLY. he had that right. At the time there WERE no ethics rules. Those were developed a year later. Of course it is fair to judge him based on his actions, but he claims his wife hung it, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we can't prove otherwise.
There are no grounds to remove him from the bench or require him to recuse himself from elections cases over an upside-down flag that means different things to different people.

The new "avoid the appearance of impartiality" rule is wide open for interpretation. Are you going to give Ms. Sotomayer's book the same scrutiny? I doubt it.

"WOW You people slay me. You mean to tell me that he needed to be TOLD that was unethical to promote political views while he is a sitting justice to the SCOTUS??"

I don't agree that hanging a flag upside-down is "promoting a political view", particularly since it was only 11 days after the Jan 6 riot where only TWO upside-down flags were displayed, as far as I have counted. There were far more right side up flags. Why isn't a rightside up flag a symbol of the insurrection? History? Well look at the history of the upside-down flag.

"expected to return"

Oh just quit the bullshht already. Seriously. Your excuse making and rationalization for this traitorous POS is ridiculous.

#117 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-18 09:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, YOU (and others) are making a PILE of assumptions as rationalization to label a sitting Justice as traitorous, with no supporting evidence. Starting with the mysogynistic assumption that Mrs. Alito lacks the agency to raise the flag herself. Moving on to mindreading, assigning a specific motivation to her actions (to show solidarity with Jan 6 insurrectionists, who almost exclusively displayed right-side-up flags), completely disregarding the history fo that act. Next, refusing to accept the plausible explanation of the neighborhood dispute. Then moving on to Shannon Breams paraphrased tweets and treating them as if they were verbatim quotes of Alitos words, which they weren't, then using those words INSTEAD of his own actual email to call him a liar. Ride that pony.

An upside down flag which traditionally is as flown in times of distress is not necessarily a symbol of an insurrection that culminated in a violent coup attempt 11 days earlier
-Miranda

You can't make this ------- crazy stuff up

Sure Alito was just protesting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's fees on payday loans instead!

#140 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 10:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Now you've gone full on strawman, QUOTING me for something I didn't say. See why I consider you intellectually dishonest?

"Why did Mrs. Alito fly the American flag upside down after the argument with her neighbor? "

#143 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-05-18 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like a good question for Mrs. Alito. If you insist upon assigning a specific motive to her actions, then you must base it on the commonly known historical meaning of that "symbol" on January 17, 2021. NOT based on the way the "stop the steal" movement has hijacked it in the 3+ years since. I don't know exactly when it was redefined (by social media) as the "stop the Steal flag", but I don't see any evidence that was common knowledge on January 17, 2021. Maybe you can share the evidence that proves otherwise? I mean other than two upside-down flags displayed among THOUSANDS of right-side up flags carried by Jan 6th rioters?

The first time I saw a flag like that was at the "hippie house" down the street during the Vietnam war. It was a defining memory for me because my dad was really angry but used it as an opportunity to explain the first amendment to me. The lesson stuck. In years since, I have seen it after 911, after the 2009 stock market crash and after other elections. Maybe Ms. Alito was showing her displeasure with our new president, or maybe it was just art of a first Amendment tit-for-tat with her neighbor.

Most people aren't aware how fragile democracy actually is. #146 | Posted by ClownShack at 2024-05-18 11:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't happen to believe democracy is fragile, but the first way to shut it down would be to shut down the first amendment, and that seems to be what most of you are advocating for. It is not unethical for a Supreme Court Justice to hold personal or political viewpoints, and I think it is ridiculous and naiive to expect them to pretend they do not. What is unethical if they allow those views to dictate their interpretation of the case before the court. Is there evidence that Alito has taken a "Stop the Steal" position on any Supreme Court case?

The stop the steal movement actually used an inverted flag prior to the 1/6 insurrection when they were protesting in various states as early as November 2020. Was it used a lot? No, but I saw incidents were it happened in places like Seattle when I did some research earlier today.. I think it was like the 1776 meme. Some Trump supporters used it, most didn't. I agree that Trump supporters and the Alitos weren't the first or last to use it.

#154 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2024-05-18 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Exactly, so is it fair to ASSUME that Mrs. Alito was aware of those incidents (as opposed to the "country in distress" use) and displayed it to show solidarity with the "Stop the Steal" movement? I don't think so. I'm not big on assigning motivations to other people, no matter which side they are on.

#156 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:
Your entire post is loaded with pearl clutching hysteria. Dare I try a point for point? Ok Ill bite:

"So, let me get this right."
You will need a calendar for that, I suggest you pull one up on your computer.

"The claim is that following months of efforts by ------- to overturn the election, when he tried a violent coup to overturn the election"
Nope, the claim is that aproximately ELEVEN DAYS after the insurrection, this flag was raised upside down at the Alito home.

", when he tried 60 times and failed to thwart democracy in the courts,"
Yeah, i think this was before that, can you check the calendar again?

"when he was impeached 4 days prior for the insurrection, when he was leaving office in disgrace 3 days later"
Ding ding, you get a point.

"that a radical rightwing republican justice's WIFE flew a flag upside-down"
Your opinion that he is radical, that doesn't make it the truth.

"(which means a nation in distress and had been used by pro -------ite magats for months prior)"
Link please? Do you have evidence showing that was so commonplace that she should have known about it? I didn't know that was "a thing" until recently and apparently neither did the thousands of insurrectionists who didn't turning their flags upside down, 11 days prior. Maybe they didn't get the memo either?

"because she was upset that a neighbor down the street had a "---- Trump" flag/sign on his yard and he was near a bus stop that kids supposedly catch a school bus at, even though those kids weren't going on school buses at the time."
And also because they (allegedly) posted signs personally attacking her by name, blaming her for the insurrection and calling her the "C" word" in person, so yeah, she was probably a little pissy about the neighbors actions. Sounds like the kind of neighborhood dispute that plays out in neighborhoods across America. Sounds like her response was mild by comparison. Do you expect her to turn the other cheek when her neighbors get nasty? She has first amendment rights too.

"This is what people believe."
I generally take people at their word, without evidence to the contrary. You never do, you believe you have the capacity to read minds and decide what YOU think they mean, which is heavily influenced by your own personal biases.

"Our nation is DOOMED"
I disagree. I believe in Democracy.

Trump isn't interested in the first amendment. Trump is interested in learning the identities and doxxing jurors and witnesses. Are you advocating for intimidating jurors and witnesses? Because ... well, because you ARE advocating it. #163 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:
Of course not. Care to show me where I advocated for that? Or even discussed that? Once again, the assumption that I support Trump. I do not.

"EVERY SINGLE ACTION THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN WITH REGARDS TO -------- PREPOSTEROUS IMMUNITY CLAIM. Delaying his trial past the election so voters can't have an adjudication on his treasonous behavior. THAT is a "Stop the Steal" position."

Nope, that is called adhering to the normal schedule for release of Supreme Court Decisions (Actually this was already accelerated quite a bit getting there in the first place) Now do the part where the Liberal justices are pushing to get the decision out sooner. Can't find it? Ok then just blame the conservatives for deliberately trying to prevent adjudication.

"Ok, then look at the insurrectionist Colorado case."

That one got decided pretty quickly, wasn't it unanimous? You claim to be upset that Trump disregarded the will of the voters, but you seem to want to do the same thing, by using the courts to keep voters from having the opportunity to vote for the candidate of their choice. Is that your version of Democracy? Unfortunately, that is going to backfire. i know some Democrats in Florida that are pretty pissed that they didn't have the chance to vote in the Primary.

#175 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Pearl clutching hysteria? A SC justice was flying the modern day equivalent of the confederate flag."
Repeating the same silly phrase.

"frankly, I have little respect for anyone that follows the news and ISN'T alarmed by -------."
What makes you think I am not alarmed by -------?, Of course I am. I don't think that justifies engaging in unsuported hyperbole. In fact, I think doing so energizes his base in opposition and gives him more power. Keep your criticisms honest and supported by evidence and you may just gain some ground.

"Your comments about a calendar are beyond ridiculous. You act like what Alito did (oh, excuse me, his WIFE did-LOL) happened in a vacuum, like the political and judicial establishment didn't have -------'s insurrection at top of mind."
No doubt they did, and many people thought "America is Doomed" because of the insurrection. And considering that is a common motivation for flying the upside-down flag, that is possinly her motive

"You act like 11 days after an unprecedented attack on democracy and the peaceful transfer of power is some remote and forgotten time"
Nope, I don't. I "act like" it wasn't common knowledge at the time that the upside-down flag was"the modern day equivalent of the confederate flag" and you have provided absolutely no evidence that Mrs. Alito knew, or should have known that either.

"-I cannot take you serious if you take that position"
You mean the position you have assigned to me? Or my actual position which I haven't really laid out for you to see at all.?

"----, there were discussions on whether ------- would even leave the WH on 1/20 at that point."
Yep, sounds like a good time to fly a "Our country is doomed" kinds symbolic flag. Some people lkely flew it for that very reason.

"I personally witnessed upside-down flags in the late fall of 2020 on properties likewise flying ------- flags."
Not in Alexandria you didn't

"In 2020, the upside-down flag became more firmly established as an emblem of Trump supporters who denied the legitimacy of Mr. Biden's victory, said Alex Newhouse, a researcher at the University of Colorado, Boulder."
Said Alex Newhouse in 2024

"It's very, very common in MAGA communities and QAnon communities," he said.
Said Alex Newhouse in 2024. Alexandria is not a MAGA or QAnon community.

"But you refuse to acknowledge this truth."
Why is YOUR opinion THE truth

"Which is more likely Alito's wife (who trust me has to be a political animal and UNDERSTANDS that every action she takes reflects on her husband)
There you go reading minds again.

"decides to participate in a petty feud with a neighbor"
Who called her a --- and blamed her for the insurrection? Sure why not

"OR Alito-an avowed republican partisan who has subsequently acted quite openly in protecting ------- from being held accountable for his insurrection"
Huh? how did he protect -------? Did the Liberal Justices who joined him on the Colorado decision also protect -------?

"My personal opinion is that the former is patently ridiculous and the latter true beyond a reasonable doubt."
Good thing you will never be allowed to serve on a jury. Both sides would mark you for elimination, because you completely lack objectivity. Can't hide that.

"Alito has proven himself a liar on the RvW issue, so there is that"
Quote the lie please? (hint, you wont find what you think you are looking for)

" You claim to be upset that Trump disregarded the will of the voters" If you notice, folks who make this claim never mention Arizona. Or Georgia. Or Michigan.#180 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag: "
Nice try but I was responding to a post about Colorado. I hahppen to agree that Trump disregarded the will of the voters in Arizona, and Georgia, and many other places. I am a believer in free and open elections. Not using the political system OR the courts to try to keep candidates off the ballot. That tye of strategy goes against the will of the voters.

"Why is Alito still allowed to be on the SC? Friggin' right wing partisan hack. #181 | Posted by moder8 at 2024-05-18 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Can you find grounds for impeachment? Didn't think so.

#185 Exactly what did he say at his confirmation hearing that was a lie? I mean what he actually said, not the twitter hyperbole. You my be surprised.

" Exactly what did he say at his confirmation hearing that was a lie?" Pretty much the opposite of "egregiously wrong from the start".
#195 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ill repeat the question. Exactly WHAT did he say in his confirmation hearing about Rowe V Wade? Do you need help finding the answer?

"Just because YOU weren't aware of the FACT that it was common knowledge, it WAS common knowledge. ...Don't assume your ignorant opinion is actually reality" #196 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

My "ignorant opinion" is irrelevant. So is yours. Facts are important, and you have provided no evidence that it was common knowledge in January 2021, and I have provided factual evidence to the contrary. Please review the photos and video from Jan 6 and appproximate the proportion of right side up flags compared to upside down flags. Dontcha think if it was "common knowledge" that the upside down flag was the symbol of "Stop the Steal" that more than two people of the thousands of insurrectionists present would have turned their flags upside-down?

" Do the American voters have the right to know whether a candidate for president is convicted in a court of law for trying to overturn the presidential election? #203 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2024-05-18 02:08 PM | FLAG: "

Are you actually suggesting that the majority of American voters haven't already made up their minds about Trumps guilt? If anything, convicting Trump makes him a martyr in the eyes of his followers who see this as politicaly motivated. It makes them even more determined to turn out on election day. Big miscalculation on the part of those pushing the court cases.

So clearly, the epiphany occurred after the hearing. All Alito needs to do is walk America through the incident, and how it radically changed him. I mean, at this point, honesty would be the best policy, right? #212 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:"

You still haven't looked up what he actually said, have you? Or you didn't like it so you wont post it right here.

The prevailing sentiment here seems to be that Justices should not be allowed to express their opinions on issues that could appear before the court.....as they are expected to keep an open mind. Yet you advocate for forcing them to express and commit to an opinion during their confirmation hearings, on issues that could appear before the court. Can't have it both ways.

"Your argument is that ------- should not be tried for his crimes because it will, what? Upset his supporters? Isn't that the definition of terrorism? He committed crimes, our constitution demands he be held accountable, otherwise it will mean ----."

Nope didn't say that. There you go with the strawman again. you've got this false binary issue you really need to get some help processing. Everything with you is, you don't agree with THIs so you MUST agree with THAT.

#217 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You seem to be solely basing your conclusion on the few images you have reviewed of the 1/6 insurrection, that is well... not sufficient. #216 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Well I'm not basing it on a New York Times article from four years after the fact, but you do you. Read it again, and again and again if you think it proves what Ms. Alito was thinking in that moment. I'm basing on on published photos from that time period, photos of THOUSANDS of "Stop the Steal" insurrectionists 11 days prior, who were (apparently) unaware of the symbol of thier own movement. Except for maybe two of them. Refute that.

#225 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag: "You still haven't looked up what he actually said, have you?" You still can't admit it was worlds apart from "egregiously wrong from the start"."

Well there is some circular reasoning. I was asking you to post t so I could see exactly which part you believe he was lying about, but you won't.

"Why don't you post the quote, and show us how he meant "egregiously wrong" even back then?"

He didn't. That's the whole point. He didn't express a firm position on it at all.

When they swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during the Senate confirmation hearings?? Yes yes we can and should #226 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2024-05-18 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:
We can and we should what? Ask them to give all their opinions on cases that may come before the court up front? Even before they are confirmed? Well then what is the point of having Justices?

"You are saying that it was a "miscalculation" to try ------- for his crimes because it would embolden his supporters.That is ------- terrorism-not doing something obviously appropriate for fear of how a group will react to it. #229 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:
Nope, I didn't say that either, Captain Strawman. Read my words again. Your tendency to paraphrase is exhausting.

What I said was, "If anything, convicting Trump makes him a martyr in the eyes of his followers who see this as politicaly motivated. It makes them even more determined to turn out on election day. Big miscalculation on the part of those pushing the court cases."
Emphasis on "those pushing these court cases". I was talking about politicians, journalists and other "lock him up" advocates, plural, pushing court cases, plural, collectively. Prosecutors don't "push court cases".

"You're not basing your opinion on what an expert who studied this issue says, you are basing it on a google scan of images from that date." Oh, I guess those weren't real? Maybe the FBI photoshopped out the upside-down flags so people like Mrs. Alito woldn't copycat? Do you know how stupid that sounds, that an "expert" can declare what was "common knowledge" in America about the symbls of the "Stop the Steal" movement, while completely ignoring all evidence of the "symbols" on display on Jan 6th?

So are you are saying it was common knowledge for everybody EXCEPT the people at the Capitol? Something tells me the expert didnt' actually reach that conclusion, but regardless, what is at issue here is whether Mrs. Alito knew what it symbolized. Did the "expert" talk to her? Nope, didn't think so. But YOU have, because you read minds, I keep forgetting.

BTW I pointed out that the upside-down flag is A symbol, not THE symbol, so your use after that information is a lie.#234 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

No what you said was that it is "the modern day equivalent of the confederate flag". Twice.

"You're right. And "egregiously wrong from the start" is clearly a firm position.Exactly when, and how, did the Epiphany occur?That's a fair question." #237 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, that is a fair question. The right time to take a firm position is in the court's official written opinion, and that is what he did. As for his "epiphany" I'm not sure that is even an appropriate question. Whether or not he "changed his mind" about Roe is irrelevant, because his personal opinions be irrelevant. A justice is EXPECTED to form his opinion from the legal arguments, presentation of evidence and body of law, not from his personal views. The courts opinion was 213 pages. I don't recall how many of those pages were Alitos writings, so I'd refer you there for your analysis. Regardless of whether you agree with the Dobbs ruling or not, you'd be hard pressed to say the 213 pages are simply his personal opinion.

"The hidden meanings behind the far-right hate symbols on display during the US Capitol riot....Upside-down American flag. The US Capitol riot saw several American flags on display, but also a few upside-down flags."

Great post, still asking, Does a FEW out of THOUSANDS prove it was "common knowledge" and therefore irrefutable that is the reason Ms. Alito displayed it? Why the Australian link decoding American symbols?

Some of you seem to think my posts on this matter are about more than they are. My "schtick" as Gal would say, is misinformation, and unsupported media stories. My whole position here is not to support Republicans, Trump or even the Alitos. My position here is to counter the ridiculous and divisive ASSUMPTIONS that have launched from this flag story.

"So what's your theory on why she (or he) clearly had to go through serious machinations to reset the flag upside down? At this point it's "no reason at all", which doesn't pass the smell test. #255 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Wow Danforth, nobody ever asks me my opinion. I just spent 100 posts explaining why many assumptions are not supported by facts. It was assumed that I took the "opposite" position. I don't. I wouldn't say no reason at all. I would ask Mrs. Alito, because she is the only one who really knows why. I could guess, but don't see the point. In absence of evidence to the contrary, I go with what the person actually says.

I have never seen much point in interpretations like "but what she REALLY meant was...." , "What she was ACTUALLY IMPLYING is....." "He seemed to be suggesting that....." "He said....., but we all know what he was really thinking was.....". That is logically flawed and impossible to prove.

So if you really want me to guess, I would say she was really pissed off that the neighbor continually insulted her and decided that the upside-down flag would piss her off, so she did. It is also possible that it was an accumulation of the current events, an insurrection, impending constitutional crisis,etc making her feel that America was going to hell in a handbasket, and put it up the pole to reflect the "America in crisis" viewpoint. I would accept those possibilities as plausible, and would also accept that she raised it as a nod to "stop the steal" also plausible, and never said it wasn't. My whole point is we don't know and don't get to decide what was in her head.

Maybe Mr. Alito did raise the flag, but again, in absence of evidence to the contrary, I think we have to accept that as likely true. I'll bet there is video, because security is high in that neighborhood because of the wealth, and the frequent protests.

You should try a little humility and rely on people who have studied the matter and/or are more knowledgeable than you. But you won't.#259 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-18 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:
You have not presented a person who "studied the matter" and determined it was common knowledge at the time, Nationwide, OR in Alexandria VA, OR that Mrs. Alito was, or should have been aware of it, have you? Nope, you havent but still you try.

#262 Great but I'm willing to bet your links are not contemporaneous with the actual time period (Jan 2021) or that they actually demonstrate what is "Common Knowledge". If you want to filter that down to which ones actually are, I'll take a look. I still say that the LACK of upside-down flags at the ACTUAL STOP THE STEAL RALLY is the most definitive evidence of whether it was common knowledge that this was a symbol of the STOP THE STEAL movement. Kinda hard to get past that one, Truth. You seem to be saying that EVERYONE knew it was a symbol of Stop the Steal EXCEPT the Stop the Steal people. Make that make sense.

"Seems like the Alitos have plenty of reasons to lie. Sorry ... purposely mislead. #266 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag: "

I disagree. He is appointed for life. There is no way this could ever rise to the level of an impeachable offense, so why does he need to lie? Why would he give a ---- what the NYT has to say about him? It is real simple. You folks want to believe he is lying because it would suport your narrative that the Supreme Court is illegitimate. Not unlike the "Stop the Steal" position suggesting the election was illegitimate, actually. Both are very divisive and destabilizing viewpoints. I actually believe in our Democracy and don't subscribe to either of these viewpoints.

Ok TRUTHHURTS we are done here, now you are just reposting the same trolling BS you posted earlier that I already refuted. Have fun playing with yourself.

Ok so I reviewwed your links because I respect that you took the time to post them. None of the news articles are contemporaneous to the time period.

If you want to count REDDIT as an official research source, well then some of the reddit links MIGHT be contemporaneous (are possibly (they say 4 years ago and 3 years ago but dont give the months) but NONE of them say anythig about "Stop the Steal". Most of them are people asking "What does this mean?" Because it was NOT common knowledge. And virtually ALL the answers from other Redditors are that it means the country is in distress, or mentioned seeing them after previous elections, historicaly. Some of the more recent ones suggested they were hanging upside-down to protest the Dobbs decision, as a sign that "America is in distress".

Your links do not wupport your premise. Not even a little bit. Time to get off that pony.

Maybe because telling the truth might put a spotlight on Mrs. Alito, and the possibility she or her husband leaked the Dobbs decision. You know, motive.#278 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 04:26 PM | Reply

Hundreds of people were interviewed. They were never able to determine who leaked the Dobbs decision. There was no allegation that it was Mrs. Alito. Do you think she was so clever she outsmarted Chertoff and the FBI?

"It is real simple. You folks want to believe he is lying because ... "

Because what he said in his confirmation hearing was worlds apart from what he claimed in the Dobbs decision. "

I disagree. He deliberately avoided expressing firm opinions in the Confirmation hearing. The Dobbs decision was a couple hundred pages of legal analysis and opinion. If that is what you mean by worlds apart, well, ok. But isn't that what a Justice is supposed to do? NOT take a firm position in advance?

Will you at least agree, "No epiphany = Liar? #279 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

No I won't agree, because "epiphanies" is not how the Supreme Court is supposed to work. Justices are supposed to listen to the legal arguments, review the evidence, and analyze the relevant statutorial and case law before writing an an opinion supported by that analysis. Epiphanies" have no place in our Justice System.

It looks like they wanted to discover, until they realized who they'd discovered.#286 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who is "they", Chertoff? Why would Chertoff protect Mrs. Alito? Is that all ya got? Please read the report. It looks like they were pretty thorough, forensic analysis of servers and everything, but you think interviewing the 9 justices plus 2 of their spouses (selected at random, I'm sure) would have solved it? Seems like if they denied involvement you would just say Mrs. Alito was lying, just because. That seems to be the strategy here. In the face of a complete lack of evidence....."The Alitos are lying!!!!!"

As an officer, would you be satisfied with the authorities not interviewing the prime suspects? Or would you conclude the fix was in? #293 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danforth, that is pretty much how ALL criminal investigations work. Ideally, the prime suspects are the LAST people to be interviewed. You start from the perimeter and work your way to the center. You want to be equipped with as much information and evidence as possible before confronting the suspect with the facts you have, because you will only get one chance, if that. The "prime suspects", if represented by lawyers, aren't going to talk to you anyway.

Not just someone, a SC Justice who should know better. And then blamed his wife, which indicates he did know better. #295 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-18 05:19 PM | Reply | Flag

And another assertation without a speck of evidence. I didn't peg you for one of those mysonogysts who assumed the lady of the house lacked the agency to act on her own. I mean, shes the one who got called the "c" word.

"And you're putting in a LOT of effort to do so. Why is that? What's the intent behind such effort? Or are you just really really bored?" #301 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-05-18 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, today I am extremely bored, waiting for houseguests whose plane was delayed. I'm absolutely certain Biden caused the delay, based on something I saw on a Reddit thread.

"And it seems like if she did it, she'd DEFINITELY lie about it. #300 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag: "

Why does it seem that way? Do you have any actual reasons to back that up? Does she have criminal record or perjury convictions you aren't sharing with the class? Or is it just because she appears to be a Republican?

Again, you wouldn't accept it if it was your case. Especially after you'd narrowed the suspects.#306 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would, and I have, often. It is called the 5t Amendment. I'm sure the Supreme Court Justices are familiar with it (and maybe their wives). If they say, "I'd like to speak to an attorney" The interview is over. If the attorney calls annd tells you, "My client does not wish to speak to you about this matter", the interview isn't scheduled. Period.

Ooops, I should have included the husbands of the 4 lady Justices. They probably know how the 5th Amendment works too. If in fact the Dobbs decision was leaking, it would very likely be a crime, so yes, this was a criminal investigation.

But you're unsure of the justices and/or their wives, lacking in all self-awareness, wouldn't recognize the significance of flying a U.S. flag upside down during the time period in question? Remember, you're the one here putting in a ton of effort in pointing out the assumptions of others. Yet here you are, making assumptions. Take heed. #315 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-05-18 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

thanks for joining the fun match today. How is "being unsure" "making and assumption"? Isn't saying I am unsure pretty much the opposite of making an assumption?

Is the investigation over? Because that would seem to be back-handed encouragement.#314 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-05-18 05:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

That depends on whether there is sufficient evidence to either close or continue the investigation. If not, yeah, the investigation is over. But we used the term "Suspended", because there is always the possibiity that additional evidence will be revealed in the future. Who knows. The upside-down flag debacle might blow the whole Dobbs controversy wide open, just like it did in this thread. Maybe I'll get a Presidential Medal for keeping the conversation going right here.

Oh, so now it's just a "flag". No issue with burning it and dragging it on the ground, stomping on it? #317 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-18 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:
Dang, are you bringing in the George Floyd protests now?

But they probably didn't understand the significance and optics that would be interpreted if an upside down US flag was flown on the property of a supreme court justice in the aftermath of an attempted insurrection and at the same time that the Supreme Court was considering an election case? #319 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2024-05-18 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Refresh my memory. WHICH election case was the Supreme Court considering in January 2021? I can't seem to find one.

Excuse my sarcasm, Yav. I always appreciate your contributions. Are you suggesting that hanging the flag upside-down is a more serious matter than burning or stomping on it? Because both of those things happened a whole lot during the Summer of Love, and I didn't see anynbody on the left getting too upset about it.

#325 Good point. It wasn't right of me to assume they were. Bravo for Ms. Kagan.

I've been looking through this thread. Miranda's a cop, am I right? If so, I hope they never make detective as their deducing skills are nonexistent.#327 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2024-05-18 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was a Homicide Detective. 500 Homicides before I retired. what are "deducing skills"?? Do you mean deductive reasoning? The part YOU don't seem to understand is that when you are investigating a crime, EVIDENCE actually matters. You can't just operate like Columbo on a hunch, and Matlock won't be prosecuting. You actually have to find the facts and PROVE ----. "Deducing" can only get you so far, and doesn't hold up under cross examination. It can actually get you disqualified as a witness. It's not like on TV. You have to follow ALL the evidence, not just the stuff you like.

"So you think one is worse than the other? That agreeing with and supporting insurrection against the United States is hunk-dory, but protesting the injustice of the murder of a citizen is not serious?"

BIG Strawman there. I didnt say that at all. I posed a question, is this your answer?
"
"Is there a list of which acts of desecration are OK, or is it simply based on which causes you agree or disagree?

Nope, you are the one that brought it up, his that YOUR answer? Don't project your viewpoints onto me, please.

"Thanks for the ranking, and by bringing George Floyd into this conversation"

What "ranking"? You are the one who brought flag burning and stomping in. There was a hella lot of that during the Floyd protests. It was sarcastic for me to bring that up, and I apologized.

"Now we all know you approve of extra-judicial murder by cops of black men and are vehemently opposed to protests that bring to light the system racism that is still found throughout our laws and through the agency of government."

HUUUUUGE Strawman. You got a link for that fantasy?

#330 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-18 06:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

So Rusty, clarifying question. Is "Now we all know you approve of extra-judicial murder by cops of black men and are vehemently opposed to protests that bring to light the system racism that is still found throughout our laws and through the agency of government."
Considered a clarifying question? Or can I call that a strawman?

#336 I appreciate the links, but that didnt answer my question. "WHICH election case was the Supreme Court considering in January 2021? I can't seem to find one."
And I still can't. Your links are about the current flag controversy with vague references and no actual case names, looking for something like XXXXXX v. YYYYYYY. I would proffer that there were no actual election court cases under consideration for Supreme Court review in january 2021, but I am open to correction.

I'm not going to tell you how many we have every year because it may give away where I worked. I should qualify, however, that I was not lead detective on 500 homicides. We work in teams, but I was directly involved in well over 500 and remember each victim's name, and stay in touch with many of their families. I moved away after retirement, in part because I can't drive through that community without passing houses or other locations associated with the cases I investigated.

#346 Thanks for the links, Rusty. I will take a look at your links. Of particlar interest to me will be which of these cases were ACTUALLY filed and under consideration in January 2021.

As to your question, I refer you back to my question. If only TWO of the January 6th protestors seemed to be aware that the upsdie-down flag was a "symbol of stop the steal", why should we expect Mrs. Alito to be aware of this alleged association? (Or Mr. Alito even?)

And if you insist (as TRUTH did) that it was "common knowledge" that the upside down flag was a symbol of "stop the steal" why did only TWO people display the flag that way?

Note, I am not saying there is no possile way they knew ofthis association, I am saying it is rathter unfair to ASSUME they DID know.

I understand there are MILLIONS of images and videos from January 6th online. Maybe YOUR google skills are better and YOU can find a couple more upside-down flags. Consider that a challenge. It sure would help your pathetically weak argument. If you can find 10% of the flags were upside-down on January 6th, I will concede.

And yes, I HAVE ignored the other uses of the flag on January, because they weren't upside-down, which is the entire issue at hand.

And yes, I HAVE ignored the other symbols, because there is no evidence that the Alitos were displaying any other symbols, other than said Upside-down flag.

Just a reminder. This entire controversy is about an upside-down flag. And what it meant to the Alitos, on January 17, 2021.

How many more ways can you change the subject?

Picture this: an upside-down flag outside a Supreme Court Justice's house, right after a chaotic Capitol riot. Now, if that isn't a flashing neon sign of "stop the steal," what is?

Only if you already have a preconceived notion of what that means, and as I have proven multiple times, that assoication was NOT common knowledge at the time. As such, there is no evidence that Mrs. Alito raised that flag with the understanding that people who saw it would associate it with the Stop the Steal movement. As evidenced on Truthy's many links, nearly every one posting on Reddit either didn't know what it meant or associated it with "America in Crisis", and I think the majority of us can agree that was a time when we thought America was in crisis.

"Ignorance of such a symbol, under these circumstances, would be unusual, especially for individuals deeply embedded in the judicial and political landscape of the country."

Well GOSH then, why didn't those "STOP THE STEAL" protestors know this was a symbol of STOP THE STEAL"? It would've been pretty easy to just turn their flags upsidedown to join in the fun. Not enough zip ties? Nobody seems to be able or willing to answer that question, which proves....it wasn't a thing in January 2021....except for a very small minority of the "stop the Steal crowd. Like 10 people out of thousands.

Yes, it is true. I have now found at least TEN upside-down flag images from Jan 6, which proves nobody here is even trying to refute my claim of TWO. Lack of confidence in your position maybe? Maybe you can find more. Be careful though, because some of them are actually from in front of the Supreme Court, where it was considered a symbol of protest against the Dobbs decision in 2022. Oops.

And now my guests are about to arrive. So good night all. Carry on.

#363 Very Well Said, Rusty. I agree with this post 100%

#366 The word TWO started as a representative sampling, not an absolute number. I repeated it as a taunt, challenging others to look for more. I knew that even if they found twenty, their search would still demonstrate that a very, very small fraction of the flags carried by the "Stop the Steal" protestors were upside-down. That directly refutes those who insist it was well known as the "Stop the Steal" flag. Obviously, even the "Stop the Steal" crowd didn't think so on January 6th. Not sure how you can look at any of those images and disagree with that conclusion.

"Considering the timing and circumstance, I'd say it's a fair presumption that either the Alitos were ignorant and not self-aware (i.e., negligent) of how their actions would be interpreted in the court of public opinion OR they were very strategic, knowledgeable, and purposeful with this action. You seem to be of the opinion that the Alitos were ignorant, not self-aware, leading to negligence."

Nope, that is not my opinion. My opinion is that it could be either of your presumptions, or something else entirely.

#404, Rusty, another well written post.

#406 As you may have noticed, most of my posts are less about expressing MY opinions and more about calling out those who declare THEIR own opinions to be FACTS. When I point out the lack of a factual basis, or refute blatant misinformation, many assume (wrongly) that I take the "opposite" position. False binaries are popular here.

As to your question, I can only guess. Allegedly the Alitos were regularly targeted by protesters, and personally harassed by these neighbors specifically. There were yard signs attacking Mrs. Alito and verbal confrontations. (Allegedly the neighbor called her a c&*T and blamed her for the insurrection). My GUESS is that Mrs. Alito was upset and tired of being expected to turn the other cheek. Most Americans thought America was in crisis during that time period. The upside-down flag was an expression of that sentiment and a way to say "---- you" to the neighbor. I don't think it went much deeper than that, in terms of strategy, purpose or self-awareness. Apparently nobody else thought that much about it either until last week.

And yes, I believe Mr. Alito is not the one who raised the flag, because that would be a very risky thing to lie about. There were likely witnesses (neighbors, protestors or security detail) or caught on camera. A better question is when did Mr. Alito become aware of the upside-down flag and why didn't he take it down?